It's been a couple of years since we've bought new Generic E2X kits for our school. The previous kits were horrible, with several major issues, most of which have been remedied with the new kits. I'm sure most of you have seen the changes already, but just in case you haven't, I'll fill you in.

The old kits had those horrendous extremely thin and weak blue motor tubes. The non-coated tubes coupled with damp grass and young newbie hands usually resulted in ruined motor mounts. During assembly when kids lock the fin can into place with the thick green ring, they often got the thing stuck on the blue tube before it slid all the way down. They ended up crimping the snot out of the cruddy blue tube. Even if they got it right, the blue tubes tore up quickly with no engine block (see next issue). The new kits have standard white glassine coated BT-20 motor tubes. In addition to withstanding more stress during handling and flight, they should make assembly a little easier for the kids.


The old kits came without engine blocks. This omission coupled with blue motor tubes allowed the hooks to be shoved forward during thrust and landing, tearing the motor tubes. After a few flights, the kids would come to me with the motor shoved flush with the fin can. I resorted to cutting up old motors to make blocks to help prevent the problem on new builds. The new kits have blocks included.

These two changes have been my biggest beef with the E2X bulk kits. When Estes had the short lived forum, I begged for these two changes and I've mentioned it here also. Thanks Estes for making the changes and allowing kids to be able to get more than a couple of flights in before the motor mounts start tearing up!

The plain white chutes are gone. The new kits have orange and white checkerboard chutes. Most of you have seen them by now, but this is the first ones I've seen. Most of my stash of unbuilt or recently built Estes kits have been in the que for a while and still have plain chutes. These are pre-assembled with several things printed on them in some of the larger white blocks. The most prominent printing looks like the the date of manufacture, 05/30/12. The part number is also printed in another block. The copyright info and manufacturing location (Guangdong, China) is printed in four languages in four other blocks, which looks terrible to me, but won't be noticed at a distance.

I still have a couple of issues with the kits. First is the way the fin can attaches. I have no trouble with it when I build them due to my experience and minor tweaking of the construction. However, when kids build these kits "by the instructions", they often end up with fin cans that start coming loose, especially when they land on hard ground or pavement a few times (we cut spill holes and sometimes use streamers on small playgrounds). The other issue is the thin BT-50 body tubes. I'd like them to be more rugged, especially considering that kids (and teachers) sometimes handle the rockets pretty rough and often split the body tube at the top when they pinch the shock cord between the tube and nose cone.

All in all, I'm happy with the updates Estes has implemented. I've enjoyed watching the changes the company has made the last few years to keep drawing in kids at the big box stores and start reeling us old folks back in at the same time.

__________________
I love sanding.

At the risk of offending Estes (although Rick Piester, the self-described "Centuri kid" on Estes' staff, would likely be pleased), maybe you should suggest to them: "Since you're officially Centuri Corporation, could you use Centuri body tubes (i.e., thicker-walled, more durable ones) in the Generic E2X Bulk Kits?" :-) I am pleased to read, though, that they *did* implement your suggestions about the motor mount tubes and the thrust rings. Also:

Do the Generic E2X Bulk Kits now come with sufficiently-long shock cords, and are they rubber or cotton/elastic? What fin unit problems do the kids encounter (I presume you're referring to the un-swept, four-fin assemblies that were used in the Sky Writer and Athena kits)? Regarding the BT-50 body tube strength, if they would use brown virgin kraft paper tubes (perhaps with a white outer wrap), they are stronger than the recycled kraft paper tubes whose fibers are shorter (chopped) than those in virgin kraft paper tubes. In addition:

I didn't dislike the white parachutes, but I do like the red ones (and I was very pleased to see the old-style checkerboard 'chutes come back, and color-coded by canopy diameter, no less!).

__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

Something else they seem to have done with the new parachutes (at least the few I've seen have been this way) is to rig the shroud lines in a better pattern. One goes between opposite corners and the other two pairs along the sides. This arrangement helps cut down on shroud tangles better than the old "three sides" method. Since all Estes chutes are pre-rigged, this is a great improvement.

They have gone back to rubber cords. They look like they are about 22-24" long.

As I mentioned in the post, kids build the kits by the instructions but they have issues with the cans becoming loose. The fin can is held in place by the motor tube's hook retaining ring and the big green adapter tube. The can is basically wedged between the two. Kids have issues getting a tight fit and after a few landings, the things start getting loose because the cans themselves aren't glued to the body tube. The retaining ring will also start to compress and allow the can to start working down over it.

BTW, not only are the new chutes nice looking, they now have gone back to the better quality shroud lines instead of the old weak fuzzy lines that were used in earlier pre-tied chutes.

__________________
I love sanding.

Fromtbzep’s first post:

“The old kits had those horrendous extremely thin and weak blue motor tubes.”
I hate those Estes blue and Quest yellow tubes! They are always the first thing tossed and replaced with BT-20 or (better yet) ST-7 tubes.

“The new kits have standard white glassine coated BT-20 motor tubes.”
In addition to withstanding more stress during handling and flight, they should make assembly a little easier for the kids.”
I Agree - Great improvement Estes!

“The old kits came without engine blocks. . . The new kits have blocks included.”
It’s a little hard to believe the engines blocks weren’t included at first.

“The plain white chutes are gone. The new kits have orange and white checkerboard chutes.”
The new chutes and stronger shroud lines remind me of what they were in the late 1960s.

“The other issue is the thin BT-50 body tubes. I'd like them to be more rugged . . .”
Again I agree! BT-20 and BT-50 have always been a weak link, even more so recently. If the inside wraps have an open seam a hard landing easily crimps up the tube!

“All in all, I'm happy with the updates Estes has implemented.”
Estes is certainly back on track. Improvements, new kits and new engines. It’s great they are listening and making positive changes.

__________________
Hans "Chris" Michielssen
Old/New NAR # 19086 SR

www.oddlrockets.com
www.modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com
http://www.nar.org/educational-reso...ing-techniques/
Your results may vary
"Nose cones roll, be careful with that."
Every spaceman needs a ray gun.
Look out - I'm the Meister Shyster!

I noticed this in a pre-made chute and was very surprised.
The average new builder might not know the reason why the shroud lines are attached like this, but I thought it was pretty cool!

__________________
Hans "Chris" Michielssen
Old/New NAR # 19086 SR

www.oddlrockets.com
www.modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com
http://www.nar.org/educational-reso...ing-techniques/
Your results may vary
"Nose cones roll, be careful with that."
Every spaceman needs a ray gun.
Look out - I'm the Meister Shyster!

Thank you for this information--those sound sufficiently long to largely prevent "Estes Dents."I used the tube-type Testors cement for plastic models to glue that type of fin unit to the motor mount tube, after lightly sanding both contact surfaces to enable the glue to "grab" on both parts. Depending on the age range of your pupils, however, using this glue might be problematic.I've noticed that in other recent-vintage Estes kits, as well as the new shroud line attachment arrangement, and greatly appreciate both of these changes!

__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

Good to hear about the improvements.

Here's an alternative glue you can use for the fin-to-BT joint: Pacer Formula 560 (this link for example). This glues plastic to paper quite nicely and yet handles like Elmer's glue. Works great for this joint on Alpha IIIs, Generics, MI-TIs, etc. Because it is slightly flexible when dry I'm finding it is also great for the screw eye-to-balsa nose cone connections as well.

__________________
Bernard Cawley
NAR 89040 L1 - Life Member
SAM 0061
AMA 42160
KG7AIE

Ah--that sounds similar to the UHU Bond-All (which may still be available), which would bond plastic to paper (and soak into the paper before curing, creating a "miscible anchor"). It worked very well for gluing the short "extension" paper motor tubes into the fin units of the MPC/AVI (and early Quest) Starhawk and Tomahawk kits. The Pacer Formula 560 canopy glue sounds just like it.

__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

Generic E2X is designed for school use. in MANY schools, use of a plastic cement is prohibited since it has "fumes" and is "toxic". And the non-toxic Testors 'cement' is not really a useful cement at all.

Anyway, the use of white or yellow glue to asemble and install the fin unit/motor mount assembly is really quite simple and very secure. There is absolutely no need to use plastic cement at all on this kit.

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-Fred Shecter NAR 20117 (L2)
Southern California Rocket Association, NAR Section 430