Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > The Golden Age of Model Rocketry > Model Rocket History
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 04-10-2016, 08:49 PM
LeeR's Avatar
LeeR LeeR is offline
Retired with Way Too Many Kits
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,544
Default

Idiotic decision definitely. If you've got the product, why not offer it up perhaps as a free kit if you place a sizable order -- maybe $50-75? I'm not sure when the "Clearance" section on the website came about, but clearancing the kits seems like a pretty good option, too.
__________________
Lee Reep
NAR 55948, L2

Projects: Super Saros, Honest Johns (new, and Maxi), Super Cobra
In the Paint/Detailing shop: Estes Saturn 1B
Completed!: Semroc Mars Lander, Super Orbital Transport (scratch-built), Interceptor-E
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-12-2016, 06:16 PM
rocket.aero rocket.aero is offline
Intermediate Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 49
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeR
Idiotic decision definitely. If you've got the product, why not offer it up perhaps as a free kit if you place a sizable order -- maybe $50-75?


I can think of one really good reason why a company would spike a product: it was potentially unsafe, and a risk management review decided that it would be best to cancel the kit. This model was designed to release simulated strap-on boosters, recovered by streamer. What would happen if a kid forgot or neglected to attach the streamers to these parts, allowing them to come in hot after ejection?

Yeah, we live in a litigious society, and that kinda sucks. Still, I'd rather that Estes kill a product for potential liability issues rather than be sued into oblivion.

James
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-12-2016, 11:07 PM
luke strawwalker's Avatar
luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
BAR
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Needville and Shiner, TX
Posts: 5,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket.aero
I can think of one really good reason why a company would spike a product: it was potentially unsafe, and a risk management review decided that it would be best to cancel the kit. This model was designed to release simulated strap-on boosters, recovered by streamer. What would happen if a kid forgot or neglected to attach the streamers to these parts, allowing them to come in hot after ejection?

Yeah, we live in a litigious society, and that kinda sucks. Still, I'd rather that Estes kill a product for potential liability issues rather than be sued into oblivion.

James


I can see your point. Dr. Zooch (Wes) has flown some kits that drop the simulated SRB's at staging without streamers-- when the two stages blow apart they release the SRB's pinned between them. Standard BT-20 tubes with balsa nosecones shouldn't pose too much risk, BUT, as you said, it's a litigious society now and maybe that's why he never offered the kit for sale.

Later! OL J R
__________________
The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-13-2016, 05:10 PM
Don Altschwager Don Altschwager is offline
Junior Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hiawatha, IA
Posts: 20
Default

Another thing may have happened: Estes may have taken a big tax write-off for the tooling development, production costs, etc. This may have been a bigger value to the company than any profits from selling the kits.

I wonder if the tooling was destroyed or if it still exists.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-14-2016, 09:11 PM
ManofSteele ManofSteele is offline
Level 5 Certified
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sandy, UT
Posts: 159
Default

To set the record straight, the Zenix SSRV was not released due to a problem with the motor mount mold. When we were doing acceptance testing of the final production parts, it was discovered that there was too much slop in the way the parts in the motor mount went together. The result is that the ejection charge would blow back out the aft end by the engine (and fail to deploy the parachute). Since it was a safety issue, we could not release the kit.

The mold could have been modified to make acceptable parts, but the cost exceeded what Estes wanted to spend, so the kit and the parts were scrapped instead.

Dave Talbot did the kit design, and Ron McClaren did the mold design. The design was correct, but the mold was not manufactured to the drawing tolerances.

Matt
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-15-2016, 02:09 AM
Initiator001's Avatar
Initiator001 Initiator001 is offline
Too Many Initiators is Never Enough
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,785
Default

Matt,

Thanks for the inside story on what actually happened to the Zenix SSRV kit.

So, what would I have to do to the kit I have to make it operate correctly...
__________________
Bob
S.A.M. # 0014
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-15-2016, 10:17 AM
Don Altschwager Don Altschwager is offline
Junior Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hiawatha, IA
Posts: 20
Default

Thanks for the update, it is always interesting to learn the true reasons why things happened.

The correct decision was made; Safety should always trump everything else in our hobby.

Don A
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-15-2016, 11:09 AM
ManofSteele ManofSteele is offline
Level 5 Certified
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sandy, UT
Posts: 159
Default

To make the current parts fly correctly, we had to wrap masking tape around the forward and aft end of the motor to shim up the gap between the motor and the plastic motor mount, preventing the ejection gasses from leaking out.

Matt
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-15-2016, 12:17 PM
Doug Sams's Avatar
Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
Old Far...er...Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Plano, TX resident since 1998.
Posts: 3,836
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManofSteele
To make the current parts fly correctly, we had to wrap masking tape around the forward and aft end of the motor to shim up the gap between the motor and the plastic motor mount, preventing the ejection gasses from leaking out.
At the risk of going off topic...

For what it's worth, that's not a bad idea on any rocket. I learned that (the hard way) on a level 2 attempt several years ago. The ejection charges work much better when there's a good seal on each end of the rocket. (Plus it gives the motor a little bit of extra retention.)

I've seen many rockets over the years, built with good parts, that had loose fitting motors. A stiff charge will still get the motor out. But a wimpy charge, which happens often enough, combined with a leaky rocket, can result in major disappointment. A couple wraps of tape on the motor can keep the tears away.

Doug

.
__________________
YORF member #11
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-15-2016, 03:28 PM
tbzep's Avatar
tbzep tbzep is offline
Dazed and Confused
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 8,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
At the risk of going off topic...

For what it's worth, that's not a bad idea on any rocket. I learned that (the hard way) on a level 2 attempt several years ago. The ejection charges work much better when there's a good seal on each end of the rocket. (Plus it gives the motor a little bit of extra retention.)

I've seen many rockets over the years, built with good parts, that had loose fitting motors. A stiff charge will still get the motor out. But a wimpy charge, which happens often enough, combined with a leaky rocket, can result in major disappointment. A couple wraps of tape on the motor can keep the tears away.

Doug

.

Especially with Quest motors in Estes motor tubes.
__________________
I love sanding.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:29 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe 1998-2017