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  #1  
Old 11-10-2016, 06:39 PM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is offline
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Question So... What can you tell me about the "D13 BOOM!" Engines?

In 1970 Estes introduced the "MIGHTY 'D' ENGINES" on page 94 and 95 of their catalog.



On page 96 and 97 we got "DESIGN NOTES" and "'D' ENGINE ADAPTERS".



And the first "DESIGNED FOR "D" Engines" kits in its lineup appeared on page 98 and 99. The Cat. No. 694... K-47 Astron CHEROKEE-D, Cat. No. 701-K52P Astron OMEGA, and the Cat. No. 701-K-52 OMEGA (without payload section or nosecone for use as Cineroc booster).



And in 1972, the "D13" motors were gone... Replaced by the "D12" motors that we still use today.

I only just learned of the D13 motors yesterday. In all my research on the OMEGA and its variants, I had overlooked the recommended motors, until it was pointed out to me by someone at Estes. They referred to it as the "D13 BOOM! Engines", and informed me that it was subject to a recall.

Tell me more.
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  #2  
Old 11-11-2016, 03:28 AM
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I actually flew a BUNCH of new-old-stock D13-0's and D13-5's from the late 70's through the mid 90's and never had one go 'Kaboom', but may others did in the early days. Possibly aging in a consistent environment made mine ok.
I never had any catos with the notorious 24mm E15's from Estes in the 90's during their first foray into motors larger than D's either.
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  #3  
Old 11-11-2016, 06:32 AM
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Joe Wooten Joe Wooten is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
I actually flew a BUNCH of new-old-stock D13-0's and D13-5's from the late 70's through the mid 90's and never had one go 'Kaboom', but may others did in the early days. Possibly aging in a consistent environment made mine ok.
I never had any catos with the notorious 24mm E15's from Estes in the 90's during their first foray into motors larger than D's either.


Funny how that works for different people buying in different parts of the country. Lots of folks had CATO problems with the FSI F100, E60, and F7 motors. My first batch of E60's were fine, and I never had any CATO's with either the F100 or F7, but the second batch of E60's I had CATO 2 out of 3. I never got any D13's to play with back in the day. Being a freshman in high school and totally broke, I could not afford them. I was out of the hobby when the E15's came out.
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Old 11-11-2016, 07:06 AM
otis otis is offline
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Default D-13's

How many do you need?
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  #5  
Old 11-11-2016, 09:06 AM
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You mentioned the D13 engines were subject of a recall.
I read and kept most all correspondence from rocket manufacturers.
I don't remember any recall notice sent from Estes.
Maybe the recall only reached the hobby stores.

Right after they became available, my first D13 was in a Goblin.
Ignited, went up five feet and blew a fireball out the top.
The inside tube was sooty but no other damage to the rocket.

I never tried the other two engines. They are stored with some other old engines,
still in the mailing tube.
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Old 11-11-2016, 10:42 AM
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Although I never had any issues with the Estes D13 or E15, I had PLENTY with the FSI F100 and especially the E60.
With the F100 I had maybe a 25% cato rate, and with the E60 I had a ridiculous cato rate of over 50% no matter where in the core I inserted the igniter. It amazes me those turds were never de-certed.
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Old 11-11-2016, 11:20 AM
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Back in the early 80's when I was still doing contests, I went to one held at the Johnson Space Center. One of the events was E eggloft altitude and almost all of us were using E60's. I don't remember any CATOS that day, but I did lose mine to a high level wind that carried it off to the east. The wife and I got into the car and she drove while I hung out the window trying to keep it in sight. We drove for 3-4 miles and came to dead end street where I lost sight of it while it was still fairly high, probably 400-500 ft. **** thing probably ended up in someone's backyard pool in Clearwater....
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Old 11-11-2016, 01:22 PM
Blastfromthepast Blastfromthepast is offline
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When I got into model rocketry in 1973, D13s were long gone, in favor of the D12.. I do recall there were a good number of CATO D12s experienced by our club members in Colorado Springs. Almost all of these involved a split in the casing that would cause side-blow, pretty much roaching the whole model.

Have a couple of photos....

The first is a D12-0 that side-blew in a booster stage.

2nd photo is a D12 'Fireball' caught in the act of destroying a super-roc entry at NARWIN-1 in Phoenix. Original photo courtesy of Herb Desind.
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  #9  
Old 11-17-2016, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcmbanjo
You mentioned the D13 engines were subject of a recall.
I read and kept most all correspondence from rocket manufacturers.
I don't remember any recall notice sent from Estes.
Maybe the recall only reached the hobby stores.

Right after they became available, my first D13 was in a Goblin.
Ignited, went up five feet and blew a fireball out the top.
The inside tube was sooty but no other damage to the rocket.

I never tried the other two engines. They are stored with some other old engines,
still in the mailing tube.


No, they weren't 'recalled'. They were just silently replaced with the D12.

the D13's came out in 1969. We never had problems with them until '71. But boy, when they started popping, they were popping all over the place! In my 'Rocket Film' on YouTube account royatlvideo, after the NARAM 13 section, there's a launch of a large silver and white two-stage rocket were BOTH stages went kaboom.
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  #10  
Old 11-17-2016, 05:30 PM
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Wonder if they went through some sort of unplanned abnormal heat-cycling on the '71 batches or some problem with the 24mm casings using substandard glue in that batch of casings ?
I just checked my remaining stash of D13's and they all have '69 and early '70 date codes.
Based on the info from Roy above, this probably explains why I never had any "KABOOMs" with the D13.
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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and NEVER touch the brake !!!
No Harm=NO Foul advocate

If you are NOT FLYING LOW in the left lane, you need to GET THE #$&@ OUT of it !

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask, you probably aren't
!
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