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  #11  
Old 09-26-2017, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas Russell
"The website actually says that one is skill level 3, which is a bit surprising if you have to cut the ducts yourself (it appears as if you do indeed)."

True, but it says "4" twice in the kit description. I was surprised that it includes a baffle and alignment fixture (like the SEMROC Trident kit). John Boren is really bringing it. He designs using the currently available Estes parts, but my first thought was "SPEV?"

Chas


It might be. He told me when the Estes SLV came out that it was a SPEV. The SLV uses 5 BNC-50Js....and I gather they're getting completely away from balsa nose cones.

It's funny that whenever it comes up in conversation, Bill Simon, the designer of the original SPEV, he claims he wishes everyone would forget that one....

There is also the recent packaging change to some of the Estes line that changed "skill level" to just "level" and basically redefined everything up two levels, so that RTFs and E2X/ARF types had a level number. One obvious effect of that was to make the 1225 Alpha a "Level 3" model! As I understand it, this was done with little and pretty much after-the-fact input from the folks in Penrose who know a few things about model rockets....

That project was apparently not completed, so there is a mixture of the older skill level and newer "just level" packaging out there. When that web page was created, one might wonder which level system was on the mind of the page creator.
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  #12  
Old 09-26-2017, 04:45 PM
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I noticed that on the Alpha packaging and couldn't get my brain around it.
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  #13  
Old 09-28-2017, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC
It might be. He told me when the Estes SLV came out that it was a SPEV. The SLV uses 5 BNC-50Js....and I gather they're getting completely away from balsa nose cones.

It's funny that whenever it comes up in conversation, Bill Simon, the designer of the original SPEV, he claims he wishes everyone would forget that one....
His attitude toward his S.P.E.V. kit sounds like Tom Cruise's "dis-ownership" of the movie "Legend," which--considering how both the kit and the movie have become well-loved over the years--is a bit strange. The S.P.E.V. is actually two kits in one; itself, and a Thor-Agena B (which Estes always printed incorrectly as "Thor Agena-B," see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/68estp16.html ), "plus extra parts."
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC
There is also the recent packaging change to some of the Estes line that changed "skill level" to just "level" and basically redefined everything up two levels, so that RTFs and E2X/ARF types had a level number. One obvious effect of that was to make the 1225 Alpha a "Level 3" model! As I understand it, this was done with little and pretty much after-the-fact input from the folks in Penrose who know a few things about model rockets....

That project was apparently not completed, so there is a mixture of the older skill level and newer "just level" packaging out there. When that web page was created, one might wonder which level system was on the mind of the page creator.
...So in addition to the latest iteration of the Alpha, the packaging of all of the new kits--with its "half 'n half" skill level/level nomenclature--will also be collectible (shades of the artist Pablo Picasso signing his utilities checks and other payments' checks, whose recipients never cashed them, but sold them instead, because his signature was worth more as a collectible item)... :-)
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  #14  
Old 09-28-2017, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
His attitude toward his S.P.E.V. kit sounds like Tom Cruise's "dis-ownership" of the movie "Legend," which--considering how both the kit and the movie have become well-loved over the years--is a bit strange. The S.P.E.V. is actually two kits in one; itself, and a Thor-Agena B (which Estes always printed incorrectly as "Thor Agena-B," see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/68estp16.html ), "plus extra parts."


Based on some of the other things Bill has told me, the S.P.E.V. being essentially another kit with extra parts (the ones, presumably, that had been over ordered and were then excess to need) is not surprising. He has mentioned on more than one occasion that he tried to use existing parts whenever possible in a new design. Even in the Alpha's case, every part in its original incarnation was already used somewhere else in the Estes line save the fin pattern sheet and the instructions.

Quote:
...So in addition to the latest iteration of the Alpha, the packaging of all of the new kits--with its "half 'n half" skill level/level nomenclature--will also be collectible (shades of the artist Pablo Picasso signing his utilities checks and other payments' checks, whose recipients never cashed them, but sold them instead, because his signature was worth more as a collectible item)... :-)


Well....at least for those who want to collect every single packaging variation of a given model, I suppose so. I strongly doubt that was the intent behind it.

To get back somewhat to topic - I finally got the white paint on my SBB yesterday. I hope the weather holds out long enough for me to shoot the red tomorrow or Saturday so that it can be finished before our next club launch and so that I can get some pictures.

But the weather forecast is not encouraging - after getting to 80 today it looks like it's going to be wet, windy and struggling to get to 60 for the next several days. *sigh*
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  #15  
Old 09-28-2017, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
His attitude toward his S.P.E.V. kit sounds like Tom Cruise's "dis-ownership" of the movie "Legend," which--considering how both the kit and the movie have become well-loved over the years--is a bit strange. The S.P.E.V. is actually two kits in one; itself, and a Thor-Agena B (which Estes always printed incorrectly as "Thor Agena-B," see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/68estp16.html ), "plus extra parts."...So in addition to the latest iteration of the Alpha, the packaging of all of the new kits--with its "half 'n half" skill level/level nomenclature--will also be collectible (shades of the artist Pablo Picasso signing his utilities checks and other payments' checks, whose recipients never cashed them, but sold them instead, because his signature was worth more as a collectible item)... :-)

The Thor-Agena B actually used the BT-60K from the Ranger (Payload tube). The SPEV used the BT-60FG from the Mars Lander which was approximately 0.3" shorter (6.7" vs. 7"). I still think the SPEV is an interesting design and a creative way to eliminate some excess parts.
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  #16  
Old 09-28-2017, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC
It's funny that whenever it comes up in conversation, Bill Simon, the designer of the original SPEV, he claims he wishes everyone would forget that one....
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  #17  
Old 09-28-2017, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC

To get back somewhat to topic - I finally got the white paint on my SBB yesterday. I hope the weather holds out long enough for me to shoot the red tomorrow or Saturday so that it can be finished before our next club launch and so that I can get some pictures.

But the weather forecast is not encouraging - after getting to 80 today it looks like it's going to be wet, windy and struggling to get to 60 for the next several days. *sigh*


Bernard,

I didn't know you ended up with an SBB from NSL. Congratulations. I attended Chili Blaster in a Pueblo a few week ago and John Boren brought several SBBs, and Red Novas, to raffle off. I was lucky enough to get a Red Nova. I have not started it yet but I'd like to get it done before the masses have them at launches. I also won a Madcow Cricket, a 4" upscale of the 220 Swift. I've never had that kind of luck before!

I'll be interested to see your completed SBB. Hopefully you'll get a break in the weather. It's rainy here in Colorado, so not much painting going on here either.
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  #18  
Old 09-28-2017, 08:46 PM
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Lee,

John handed me a bag of parts and a couple of printed templates....which built into a Super Big Bertha. It was in primer in mid-July when it was first flown (twice) on E16-6s. As I say got it’s first actual top coat of white paint yesterday.

Some time it’ll get finished. It looks like maybe there will be a break in the rain on Tuesday next week (though I don’t know about wind that far out yet).
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  #19  
Old 09-28-2017, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
...the artist Pablo Picasso signing his utilities checks and other payments' checks, whose recipients never cashed them, but sold them instead, because his signature was worth more as a collectible item)... :-)


Early American astronauts were notable for making small, sundry purchases with personal checks. Picture Alan Shepard buying a Coke and a candy bar with his checkbook and you'll get the idea. Who would cash that check?

James
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  #20  
Old 09-29-2017, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC
Based on some of the other things Bill has told me, the S.P.E.V. being essentially another kit with extra parts (the ones, presumably, that had been over ordered and were then excess to need) is not surprising. He has mentioned on more than one occasion that he tried to use existing parts whenever possible in a new design. Even in the Alpha's case, every part in its original incarnation was already used somewhere else in the Estes line save the fin pattern sheet and the instructions.
There's nothing wrong with that; in fact, parts that are/were used in only one kit--except scale kits, of course--are unusual. If memory serves, some of the S.P.E.V.'s parts were estimated to have 50-year supplies at Estes!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC
Well....at least for those who want to collect every single packaging variation of a given model, I suppose so. I strongly doubt that was the intent behind it.
I don’t think it was intended, either; but if I worked at Estes and was aware of the “transition collectors,” I might buy a few such “transition” kits and stash them away...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwtoelle
The Thor-Agena B actually used the BT-60K from the Ranger (Payload tube). The SPEV used the BT-60FG from the Mars Lander which was approximately 0.3" shorter (6.7" vs. 7"). I still think the SPEV is an interesting design and a creative way to eliminate some excess parts.
Thank you. Never having had either of those kits, I wasn’t aware of that slight BT-60 length difference. It’s small enough, though, that the motor mount (which uses a JT-60 stage coupler in the Thor-Agena B kit, see: http://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/estes/k-28.pdf [oddly, “Thor-Agena B” is printed correctly in the kit instructions, unlike in the catalogs’ listings for the kit]) could just be allowed to protrude 0.3” out the rear of the S.P.E.V.’s BT-60FG, and a 0.3” wide strip of card stock (or scrap BT-60) could fill the 0.3” wide “gap.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket.aero
Early American astronauts were notable for making small, sundry purchases with personal checks. Picture Alan Shepard buying a Coke and a candy bar with his checkbook and you'll get the idea. Who would cash that check?

James
I hadn’t known that, but if I were that famous, I’d do that, too! :-)
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