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  #21  
Old 11-05-2017, 08:09 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbectec
Paramount apparently absorbed Euclid and several other companies. I remember finding another company that made model rocket tubes too but, I have also forgotten their name.

I remember speaking to AAA aviation fuels who advertised custum made tubes through their supplier. There was a set up fee and a rather large minimum order. Not affordable for me at the time.
Was it New England Paper Tube Company (see: http://www.google.com/search?source...1.0.fcl7BkTlcmQ ), by any chance? (Their name was in my mind when I woke up today.) I helped Dr. Edward Jones (being deaf, he couldn't use a telephone) order a batch of various-size motor tubes from them, for his Spadroon jet motors (see: http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showt...d+Rapier+motors ). They were in the process of closing down at the time (Chinese competition was killing them), but Googling their name just now, I was happily surprised to discover that they were saved by explosives, for which they now make the tubes--an article whose link is in the first URL above covers it. If memory serves, they also make spiral-wound "body tube-type" paper tubes.
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  #22  
Old 11-05-2017, 11:01 PM
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mwtoelle mwtoelle is offline
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I think that a company called Stone Industries made the CMR and MPC tubes. An interesting thread on the subject can be found here: http://www.rocketryforum.com/showth...like-body-tubes .
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  #23  
Old 11-06-2017, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by mwtoelle
I think that a company called Stone Industries made the CMR and MPC tubes. An interesting thread on the subject can be found here: http://www.rocketryforum.com/showth...like-body-tubes .
Stone Industries...are/were they also the ones who made/make the stiff, "Stone-ized" stage couplers that Estes used/uses in their kits? Thank you for the link; I never had a CMR (Competition Model Rockets) kit, just a couple of Pratt Hobbies' kits that used their vacu-formed nose cones, but I have seen that CMR type of body tube before (that's shown in a photograph in that TRF thread), and not only in MPC kits.
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  #24  
Old 11-06-2017, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
stiff, "Stone-ized" stage couplers

Fish paper?


.
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  #25  
Old 11-06-2017, 09:36 AM
jdbectec jdbectec is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Was it New England Paper Tube Company (see: http://www.google.com/search?source...1.0.fcl7BkTlcmQ ), by any chance? (Their name was in my mind when I woke up today.) I helped Dr. Edward Jones (being deaf, he couldn't use a telephone) order a batch of various-size motor tubes from them, for his Spadroon jet motors (see: http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showt...d+Rapier+motors ). They were in the process of closing down at the time (Chinese competition was killing them), but Googling their name just now, I was happily surprised to discover that they were saved by explosives, for which they now make the tubes--an article whose link is in the first URL above covers it. If memory serves, they also make spiral-wound "body tube-type" paper tubes.


That name rings a bell. I can't be certain, we're going back to Windows 98 days!
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  #26  
Old 11-07-2017, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
Fish paper?


.
Yes--the stiff, smooth, dark green, slightly-shiny "Stone-ized" paper of the stage couplers is called that (maybe because it somewhat resembles how a fish's skin looks?).
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http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
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  #27  
Old 11-07-2017, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbectec
That name rings a bell. I can't be certain, we're going back to Windows 98 days!
I call it "morphine mist" (which can apply to memories of much more recent times...). :-)
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http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
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  #28  
Old 11-07-2017, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Yes--the stiff, smooth, dark green, slightly-shiny "Stone-ized" paper of the stage couplers is called that (maybe because it somewhat resembles how a fish's skin looks?).


I did a search and this came up:
fishpaper An insulating paper, often fiber- or oilcloth-like, used in the construction of transformers and coils. [Historical Note: Alvin G. Sydor writes: "In 1729 Stephen Gray made the discovery of the conducting and non-conducting power of different substances. Gray found that by using woven silk served as an excellent insulator. Some years later it was found that the paper industry could provide what was equivalent to woven silk. Later it was discovered that if the paper was saturated with fish oil its ability as an insulator was much improved particularly when used in harsh environments and high voltages."
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  #29  
Old 11-07-2017, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcmbanjo
I did a search and this came up:
fishpaper An insulating paper, often fiber- or oilcloth-like, used in the construction of transformers and coils. [Historical Note: Alvin G. Sydor writes: "In 1729 Stephen Gray made the discovery of the conducting and non-conducting power of different substances. Gray found that by using woven silk served as an excellent insulator. Some years later it was found that the paper industry could provide what was equivalent to woven silk. Later it was discovered that if the paper was saturated with fish oil its ability as an insulator was much improved particularly when used in harsh environments and high voltages."

Yes. If you remember taking apart electrical things as a kid, many times a flat square of the material was wedged in or screwed down between components. I don't see it used much that way these days. It usually varies in color from a medium grey to almost black, with green hues and blue hues. I've even seen some that had a rusty red color, but I 'm not sure if it is considered fish paper. I doubt today's fish paper uses fish oil, but it might. Seems like epoxy resins would be the way to go and would explain it's strength/stiffness.
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  #30  
Old 11-07-2017, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcmbanjo
I did a search and this came up:
fishpaper An insulating paper, often fiber- or oilcloth-like, used in the construction of transformers and coils. [Historical Note: Alvin G. Sydor writes: "In 1729 Stephen Gray made the discovery of the conducting and non-conducting power of different substances. Gray found that by using woven silk served as an excellent insulator. Some years later it was found that the paper industry could provide what was equivalent to woven silk. Later it was discovered that if the paper was saturated with fish oil its ability as an insulator was much improved particularly when used in harsh environments and high voltages."
Take *THAT*, "greenie-weenies!!!" :-) (I couldn't resist; some years ago, the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre [a draft horse sanctuary in England that I support] launched several "Sky Lantern" balloons that I'd supplied them with--with free Visitors Day passes that they attached to them--to get local media attention for fund-raising. They were criticized by a few local newspaper readers for "littering the land," and the Centre folks were concerned that flying model rockets there as a visitor-attracting activity might draw similar criticism, even though the flameproofed tissue wadding is biodegradable.) BUT:

Thanks to Chris, we now know that model rockets (most if not all of whose parts are biodegradable, sunlight-degradable, or 'oxidation-degradable,' especially those having balsa or hardwood nose cones and balsa--or fiber--fins) have even *more* sourced-directly-from-nature materials than we had previously known. I would never have guessed that the "Stone-ized" stage coupler paper is called fishpaper because it contains actual fish oil (but it does make perfect sense from an electrical properties perspective, as oil--not fish oil--is also used in large transformers). I wouldn't be surprised if some small, low-powered transformers (and perhaps even paper condensers [capacitors]) use fishpaper as an insulating material, and:

The "loopstick" antenna coils (ferrite rods inside paper sleeves, with the coils wound around the sleeves) that are utilized in radios might use fishpaper sleeves. Plus, for winding "air core"--having no ferrite rod--antenna coils (these larger coils are often used in crystal radios, antique and old-style AM and Short Wave radios, ham radio transmitters and receivers, wave traps, and ATUs [antenna tuning units]), fishpaper stage couplers would make excellent coil forms to wind the wire (usually enameled wire ["magnet wire"]) around, and they are probably cheaper than bakelite plastic and phenolic-impregnated paper coil forms.
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
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