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  #21  
Old 09-19-2007, 08:33 PM
BatPlane BatPlane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solomoriah
If you use all the clay, the Bullpup is plenty stable. I recommend a B engine for first launch, though, as it is a pretty heavy model.


I tested it today. You're right, it's stable enough. Did 3 launches with A engines, no problem.

Now to see if a bunch of little girls can assemble ten of them tomorrow!!!
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  #22  
Old 09-22-2007, 05:14 PM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
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Let us know how your building and flying went.
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  #23  
Old 09-23-2007, 07:48 AM
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barone barone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Doctor
Let us know how your building and flying went.

Yep...need to keep this thread alive until we hear the results. Kinda ambitious project for girl scouts. Not that they can't do it, but the bull pup has alot of stuff to it for a first rocket build.
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  #24  
Old 09-23-2007, 08:24 AM
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Leo Leo is offline
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Don't forget to make lotsa pictures
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  #25  
Old 09-24-2007, 09:43 AM
BatPlane BatPlane is offline
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Default Success...so far!

Fellow Rocketeers,

The girls (ages 11-12) did a fantastic job as I knew they would. It turns out we didn't get a full 90 minutes to work on the rockets so they only got about 80% done.

We got the engine mount assembly with engine block glued into the body tubes and marked the exterior of the tubes for fin and launch lug placement. They also got the shock cord mount glued onto the shock cord when we ran out of time.

I am going to have to go over to the leader's house and glue on all those fins on for them (eight fins / rocket X 9 = 72 fins total!!) to save time. I'll also have to do 9 launch lugs. Since I'm using super-glue to save time, I have to do it. Otherwise, the kids will be super-gluing their fingers to everything.

The girls can make fillets on the fins and launch lugs with some Aliphatic Resin Wood Glue I've got as well as pack all that clay into the nosecones. They are then going to paint them at home however they want.

So far, it's been great! It's so refreshing to have an attentive well-behaved group working on something and making progress!!!!! I'll keep you folks updated. The bull-pup turns out to have been a good choice because all those steps are good for them and they'll be proud of the finished product after all that work. Thanks.
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  #26  
Old 09-24-2007, 09:54 AM
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Solomoriah Solomoriah is offline
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Why superglue fins when yellow glue works so well? I much prefer to let my kids do it themselves. The "Quest" method (that's where I learned it) works fantastic... lightly glue the fin, stick it on, pull it off, let it dry 15 minutes, put on fresh glue and stick it on for good. The glue grabs in 5 seconds or less if you do it that way, but you still can reposition to get it straight if you need to.
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  #27  
Old 09-24-2007, 11:09 AM
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Shreadvector Shreadvector is offline
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Super-glue will often (not "always" but "often") be dangerous on Model Rockets like the Bull-Pup. it is brittle and can snap off in motor mounts centering rings, motor mount tubes and launch lugs. It also is very unhealthy for the rubber shock cords.

Part of teaching new builders is showing them how to READ the directions and use the glue that the instructions say to use. That also means allocating enough time to build a rocket.

If the rocket that looks the coolest cannot be built in the allocated time, then select a more appropriate rocket that can be safely built in the allocated time.
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  #28  
Old 09-24-2007, 12:07 PM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreadvector
Super-glue will often (not "always" but "often") be dangerous on Model Rockets like the Bull-Pup. it is brittle and can snap off in motor mounts centering rings, motor mount tubes and launch lugs. It also is very unhealthy for the rubber shock cords.

Part of teaching new builders is showing them how to READ the directions and use the glue that the instructions say to use. That also means allocating enough time to build a rocket.

If the rocket that looks the coolest cannot be built in the allocated time, then select a more appropriate rocket that can be safely built in the allocated time.




I totally agree with Fred here. For many first timers, READING and FOLLOWING the instrucyions is essential.

Also, reading the instructions and follwing the instructor as well.

Havung enough time to build a rocket and not hurrying helps out as well, instead of you doing all of the gluing, each participant should be doing that under your watchful eye, it's a great learning experience.

I have found in my many years of rocket building and instructing, start with the basics, I had a few new rocketeers that wanted to build a Saturn V as their first rocket because it was "cool", never had any building experience at all.

The most important aspect is that the builders don't become discouraged and never want to build a rocket again. There is a learning curve, as with anything, some grasp it quickly, while other need more time, it's the end result that is most important.

As far as glue goes, for a "common" build, carpenters glue (yellow) is suggested for balas to balsa and balsa to paper. Platic cement is suggested doe plastic to paper/balsa, something that I don't agree with, plastic cement "welds" to plastic pieces together.

Estes suggests carpenters glue over white glue, not every indtruction sheet reflects this, but, I find white glue to be runny compared to carpenters glue.

I haven't tried "gorilla glue
' yet, but, if I believe what is says on the package, that might be an option. Basically, it would be a cost factor.
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  #29  
Old 09-24-2007, 12:58 PM
tfischer tfischer is offline
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I kind of agree that I'd think the girls should do their own fin gluing. That's a major part of buiding a rocket, and you're kind of taking something away from them by not letting them say "I did this ALL MYSELF!"

As an aside, I kind of wonder what kind of "interesting" paint schemes these Bull Pups will end up with a bunch of preteen girls doing the work (I have visions of Barbie or My Little Pony "Bull Pups" in my head... )

-Tim
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  #30  
Old 09-24-2007, 01:17 PM
BatPlane BatPlane is offline
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Default Super Glue Controversy

I knew I was stirring up a hornet's nest with the super-glue thing.

Yes, it might have been better to have used simpler models but I'm way past that...we're using the Bull Pups. It's too late...my bad.

Yes, it'd be better to use the yellow glue instead of super glue on the fins. It'd also be better for the girls to do it all themselves. However, this isn't practical due to a limited amount of time. The goal is to get them together and fly them with the girls doing the majority of the work (they are) over 3 meetings.

The girls are going to use yellow glue for fillets and white glue for the shock cord. I'm hopeful the yellow glue fillets will add additional strength to the fins. I can't realistically envision that big a problem with the super glue. The engine mount assemblies were all done with plain 'ol white elmer's glue per the instructions.

It's not ideal, not perfect, but nobody's getting frustrated so there's no problem. No, we don't have enough time but it should (hopefully) be a happy, fun experience for them.

Yeah, I'm imagining a bunch of pink bull pup missles...cool!

By the way....I didn't see SQUAT in the instructions about exactly what type glue to use except white glue on everything and plastic cement on the tail cone part. (I also realize the instructions pre-date super-glue) I agree with you guys on all points, however this is a compromise due to my mis-judging how long it was going to take.

Last edited by BatPlane : 09-24-2007 at 02:45 PM.
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