Anyone have info on the French-Canadian headers?? Don't worry, I'm not a collector, I only buy models I like and anything too expensive to build I pass on. I just want to look through my stuff as a matter of curiosity. PM if you want, I won't talk! Thanks.

Robert:

Personally, a hang tag, beyond it's condition is a small item when concerning the rarity of a kit. Yes, I know there is a big difference between say an 80s plastic tag formed from the bag and a 1966 Pre-damon yellow tag with the VF-261 on it. Howsoever, there are instances where even newer kits are rarer due to their limited production numbers.

Possibly true, but gosh, those old kits bring back the memories! The newer kits just don't have the same appeal.

There are several kits from the 80s and 90s that had less than a years worth of production and only a few thousand instances produced, yet they go for peanuts compared to a K kit that was made in the 10s of thousands.

While the K kits were doubtless produced in large quantities over the years, for the most part they were purchased to be built. If guys knew the internet was coming and that kits would someday go for hundreds of dollars each, I'm sure a lot more of them would have been tucked away. But we didn't know that. For various reasons there are some of them still around today, but I would suggest that the true measure of rarity is the population that remains, not the original production figures.

'nuff said, I am spilling the beans and will likely cause more competition for ebay items

I wouldn't worry about it..............competition isn't a bad thing. Besides, at the end of the day it's the supply/demand balance that drives prices...............not just the supply. Would you really rather have an Estes 2182 Wacky Wiggler, produced only in 2003, than an old GT-3 Gemini-Titan in your collection? Most of us would go for the GT-3.

Just my point of view.

Joe

Joe,

Agrreed, but I am not telling the masses that a red tag = $100+ more for a kit because it has a red tag. If that were the case, I have over $4000 in red taged Estes model rocket kits... just in the red tag alone!

Next, I don't buy kits for resale; I buy based on rarity, difficulty to clone, and my own personal love of rockets. E.g., I have purchased the Space Transporter America for as little as $50. This kit was produced from 1980 - 1981. It has plastic molding that isn't easy to replicate. It was also produced in much smaller numbers than say a "K" kit Cobra or GT-3. Yes, I would rather have the Transporter than that GT-3 given the GT-3's current price in the collectors' market. I have a pre-damon sealed GT-3 and the PDR Clone. I have built the PDR version and very happy with it. Its not the tag I look at; beyond its condition.

Another kit that was a 'sleeper' collectible was the Estes Mercury Atlas. This kit is one of the greatest kits Estes ever produced. Not a "K" kit, not a "red tag" kit. Just very good engineering and very low production numbers.

There are more, but that is up too the collector to figure out.

And I disagree about the forces behind prices. Its GREED. Greed plain and simple. A GT-3 isn't worth $400. The very same build can be had for $34.95 + shipping: http://www.pdrocketry.com/rocket.htm

And a MUCH MUCH better GT-x is Sheri's Rockets version, which I also have with the Al working Nozzles : http://www.cjsaviation.com/GEMINI.html <---- A light year above in difference over the old estes offering!

Hmm lets see pay $400 for an estes GT-3 or get 2 Sheri's versions for $100 more ... I will take the 2 Sher's versions in a HEART BEAT!

What drives the high price for an original kit is greed/desire. I don't care how people spend their money, I just am a little more prudent in my spending; but I do spend... way too much money.

So to sum it up:

1)I don't care if a kit has a red tag or not. There is nothing special about it to cause even more money to be spent on a kit, and anyone peddling that line is misinforming the public for personal gain.

2)There are MODERN kits that are rarer and get passed up by others because they don't have the 'old motiff'.

3)Greed/Desire drive the collectors market with respect to model rockets. If you have enough money, and enough greed/desire, then you win the auction. Congrats!

Robert

Robert:

I don't disagree with much of what you wrote, but I have to say that the gauge of desirability of a particular kit lies in the response of the masses, not in what you or I think. So a kit that is identical to a yellow hang tag kit in every way, except that it has a red hang tag, is worth the money if a number of educated (or seasoned) collectors drive up the price because they want it. I'm surprised that you have so many red hang tag K-kits..............at one time i set it as a personal goal to collect as many as I could, and guess what.............a scant two or three came up for auction on Ebay over a 3-5 year period. That's when I realised that I'd better focus on collecting something else. Where the heck did you find all of yours?

Joe

I'll take a guess that he got them via the old mail auctions that were popular in the 80's and early 90's before eBay arrived.

__________________
Scott D. Hansen
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe - Your One Stop BAR Shoppe!
Ye Olde Rocket Plans - OOP Rocket Plans From 38 Companies!
Ye Olde Rocket Forum
WOOSH NAR Section #558

Collecting based on packaging (when it's the "same" company) is getting pretty specialised, definitely should be a challenge, especially when there's no collectors' catalog with production numbers/dates/etc. I do know that for many toys, the packaging is worth far more than whatever came in it, to the cognoscenti. The reason for that is pretty obvious for kids' stuff I guess. The demand is also somewhat limited, but those who want it sure seem to not mind paying.

Scott: popular even after eBay arrived. Remember how people used to whine when DEALERS started showing up selling Estes kits on eBay? I think it was around 96/97. The days when it wasn't a business site, and when 95% of the items in many categories weren't fakes ("imports")...

Scott is correct. I have some of the old mail order sales lists and auctions held by Centuri and Danny Sagstetter, and others... Buying at club launches, old hobby shop inventory, and of course ebay.

And its been nearly a lifetime of collecting.

The mail order sales by Centuri were held to raise money for the US Team competing in Internats. That was for the event held for the first time in the United States... some years ago.

Robert

Craig,

You reminded me of something.. wasn't there someone selling fake Centuri V-2 kits on ebay and out of Sport Rocketry years back? I heard that the BMS mark was still there on the base of the nose cone.

Robert

Robert,

If you still have the lists would you mind scanning them and posting them here for us old farts? That would be some neat nostalgia to see what stuff was going for back then. Thanks!

__________________
Scott D. Hansen
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe - Your One Stop BAR Shoppe!
Ye Olde Rocket Plans - OOP Rocket Plans From 38 Companies!
Ye Olde Rocket Forum
WOOSH NAR Section #558

Scott,

Sure I will do that later this afternoon. Your jaw will drop to see what they were selling and how inexpensive and expensive some items were at the time! Danny's old lists are on r.mr.

Robert