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  #11  
Old 04-11-2008, 10:56 PM
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Mark II Mark II is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedss396
Mark, I am not sure what the SI was, I'll have to check my old notes and see what we recored back then. As I recall the "50#" motors were similar to F-50 or so, the "20#" motors we a very low F. A 50# booster with a 20# upper stage would take a 2" dia rocket to 3000 ft or so.
Our launch site was along the Delaware River, it was about 30 ft above the river, about 1/4 mile wide and over a mile long - all sand, no trees or brush, and remote, so we were very lucky to be able to build and fly some fairly large rockets with little danger to the public!
I wrote an article about it in the Apogee newsletter last year.
Ned

Man, if I had ever seen launches like that, I never would have needed to become a BAR, if you know what I mean!

Mark
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  #12  
Old 04-14-2008, 03:48 PM
Nedss396 Nedss396 is offline
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Smile Old Motor Failures

Mark, I would have to say that the Coaster motors failed at least 30% of the time, especially the "20#" thrust motors. I would bet it had to due with cracks in the BP, most of the time they would just explode at ignition, or sometimes the nozzle would blow out. One of the most dramatic failures was an upper stage that blew out the side of the casing at about 700 feet.......made an interesting smoke trail.
I flew those ProDyn motors too, the long buring E motors in a large styo B/G.... first time it was a little nose heavy and it went up to about 25 feet, then tilted over an went down range with that motor burning like a roman candle.......shedding off parts as it went.......actually glided down about 150 yds away! It was an "exciting flight", a lot of people were ducking on that one...It lived to fly again.
Ned
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  #13  
Old 04-14-2008, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shockwaveriderz

<snip>

I don't really know how many of the Centuri Atlas E's actually made it to market(if at all) or the Hercules F25.

<snip>

Remember, that between the time Centuri absorbed Coaster in mid 1965 to 1969, during that period, Centuri was constantly improving and tweaking the original BP Coasters.

There's also NO 1970 Centuri catalog at Ninfingers, so I can only guess that somewhere in the 69-71 timeframe, Centuri quit manufacturing the older BP Min-Max and started manufacturing the newer composite Enerjets.


terry dean
nar 16158



At least one of the Atlas 'E' motors made it to market as I have it in my collection.

Centuri bought Coaster in 1963 (Source: Larry Rice interview with Menford Sutton)

Centuri discontinued the Mini-Max line in 1971 when a freak lightning storm destroyed the manufacturing plant. The 1970 Centuri catalog lists both Mini-Max and Enejet motors.


Bob
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  #14  
Old 04-14-2008, 10:36 PM
shockwaveriderz shockwaveriderz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
At least one of the Atlas 'E' motors made it to market as I have it in my collection.

Centuri bought Coaster in 1963 (Source: Larry Rice interview with Menford Sutton)

Centuri discontinued the Mini-Max line in 1971 when a freak lightning storm destroyed the manufacturing plant. The 1970 Centuri catalog lists both Mini-Max and Enejet motors.


Bob



Bob, I'm aware of Larry's Interview with Menford Sutton, and although he didn't specifically say he sold Coaster to Centuri in 1963 he at least implied it.

When I wrote, " Remember, that between the time Centuri absorbed Coaster in mid 1965 to 1969, during that period,", the following is what I based my mid 1965 post on..

G. Harry Stine had this to say about Centuri's purchase of Coaster in the Sept/Oct 1965 issue of AM :

"....Running a close second to Estes is Centuri Engineering Company (P.O. Box 1988, Phoenix 3, Ariz.) under the able management of Leroy (Midnite Oil) Piester.
Centuri just purchased Coaster Corporation, have moved that outfit to Phoenix, and are now in full production on an improved line of big engines.
While we therefore bid fond adieu to Coaster, we will pick up where we left off with the Centuri Hercules and Atlas engines, plus a whole line of kits for big engine power.
Centuri has the most complete line of products for big and little birds covering the whole..."

Since this was published in the 9-10/65 issue I assumed that G. Harry wrote and submitted this to the magazine at least 3 months prior to its publication date; whcih is a reasonable assumption to make I think. That would place the actual submission date as approximately June-July 1965.

Lee Piester states that he redesigned the Coasters in 1968.

So the interview implies 1963 and G. Harry seems to indicate mid 1965: how about we split the differnce and agree Centuri purchased Coaster in 1963 but didn't finally absorb/move Coastert to Phoenix till mid 1965. Thats probably what occured. I suppose we could ask Lee . I reviewed his two interviews and although he mentions the Coaster acquistion in both interviews, he provides only vague date stamps.

Finally, in August 1964 Coaster Corp sponsored several of the trophies at NARAM-6. I am willing to conceed that Centuri may have purchased Coaster either up front or over time and that Centuri manufactured their Attlas/Hercules at the Coaster Texas location,

Its all good though as it tightens the timeframe when things occured.

Oh a big thanks for the motor pic! how about a ruler and a core shot?


terry dean
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  #15  
Old 05-31-2008, 03:34 PM
shockwaveriderz shockwaveriderz is offline
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MAY 1958
Sputnik-3 launched May 15,1958

5/58 Ist MMI Ad (Denver 4,Colorado) in American Modeler magazine; features Aerobee-Hi 001-A for $7.95; 6 pak of motors $2.50


5/58 American Modeler magazine article by G.Harry Stine about MMI Model Missiles Inc the worlds first Model Rocket company titled, "Manufacturing Model Missiles Sounds As Difficult As Turning Out Real "Birds".

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/pubs/...8_AmMod_MMI.pdf

5/58 Vern Estes meets G.Harry Stine for the 1st time in Denver, Colorado. Vern and G. Harry discuss model rocket motor making.

Amateur Rocket Headlines

5/58 "Handling the Amateur Rocketry Problem" (called the Youth Rocketry Problem by G. Harry Stine & the NAR) by NFPA Director Charles S. Morgan; The report is never publicly published (other than in the NFPA's own inhouse magazine "Fire News"), but it finds its way to the ARS. This unpublished paper was presented at Palmer House, Conference: May 19-23, 1958. National Fire Protection Association 62nd annual meeting 1958 .This report will become the basis for the assault on Amateur Rocketry, using inaccurate statistics that are still used to this day.

5/58 There was an also article in the Fire News Quarterly "Supervision of Teen-Age Rocketeers" "...based on an address by Capt. Carroll E. Shaw before the 31st Annual Meeting of the Fire Marshals' Section held in conjunction with the NFPA Annual Meeting in Chicago, May 19-23, 1958"

NOTE: Carroll E. Shaw eventually became the Connecticut State Fire Marshal and he and G. Harry Stine later started the NFPA process for model rocketry.

5/58 NY Times 600 BOYS ATTEND ROCKETRY CLASS; Army Encourages Interest, but Warns of Danger in Booming New Hobby

5/58 LA Times Burbank Teen-age Rocket Builders Test Missiles in Mojave Desert When today's teen-age scientists send one of their pals to find a vacuum, it is something like the old gag of sending an apprentice mechanic to look for a left-handed monkey wrench.

5/58 Chicago Tribune AMATEUR ROCKETS KILL 4, INJURE 86 IN 6 WEEK PERIOD

5/58 LA Times Valley School Officials Act to Prohibit Rocket Firing on Campus; School officials in San Fernando Valley communities are taking firm steps to prohibit teen-age rocket experimentation as a campus activity.

5/58 Washington Post Teachers to Get Rockets Lesson; Fairfax science and mathematics teachers will attend a meeting at the Annandale High School Monday night to hear recent developments in rocketry and rocket safety described by missile experts.

5/58 Christian Science Monitor Teen Rocket Alarm Set

Hope you enjoy sorry its so late I kinda forgot

terry dean
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Last edited by shockwaveriderz : 06-01-2008 at 09:28 PM.
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  #16  
Old 06-01-2008, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shockwaveriderz
Yes that is my intention.

terry dean
nar 16158


Terry, gonna be one hell of a good reading book, yes?? Put me down for a signed copy
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  #17  
Old 06-10-2008, 12:33 PM
shockwaveriderz shockwaveriderz is offline
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June 1958

6/58 MMI Ad(Denver 4,Colorado) in American Modeler magazine; Features Aerobee-Hi $7.95; 6 pak motors $2.50 (same Ad as May 1958)

6/58 J.(Del) Delano Hitch(NAR #3), develops and flies first successful cluster model rockets.

6/58 1st Central Rocket Co. ad in American Modeler magazine. Under the category Rocket Kit Rocket Makers Kit. Complete parts,fuel,extra tubes,fuse,parachute,instructions, $2.00. Central Rocket Company Box 221AM, Waupaca Wisconsin

Central Rocket company sold Amateur Rocketry supplies like zinc/sulfur chemicals to such future model rocketeers as Semroc's Carl McLawhorn. By the early 1960's Central became only the 2nd company in the US to have a license to sell Orv Carlisle's Rock-A-Chute motors manuufactured by Lawrence Brown of Brown Manufacturing/Zenith Fireworks.
Central also later sold Estes Industries,Inc model rocket motors as early as 1960. Central Rocket company was owned by a man by the name of Richard Goldsmith, who also had published a treatise on fireworks.

6/58 MMI releases Aerobee-Hi Kit 001-C, Economy Kit which contains a 2-piece 36" launch rod with no motors.

There is some "back story" to this last entry. When Dick Keller and Family was brought into MMI in December 1957, one of the first issue of contention was the 36" launch rod.

Dick related to me that the disagreement centered on the costs of the "custom" box that was required and the additional costs incurred in the shipping of these oversize boxes. As numerous boxes were returned from customer via the US mails dues to damage to the boxes and their contents, it was soon replaced by the 2 piece launch rod which was an innovation from Dick Keller. Dick stated that initially he wanted a launch rod that was patterned after a telescoping and collapsible radio antenna of the day. It was this disagreement that lead to G. Harry Stine's father-in-Law, William Kaluth, selling out his stake in MMI thus consolidating the Keller's as the majority stockholders of the company.



Amateur Rocketry Headlines

6/58 Christian Science Monitor It's Here--Rocket Mail!

6/58 American Modeler magazine article Young Rocketeers Meet shows the explsoive side of Amateur Rocketry. There's no doubt that coverage such as this, soured the public on Amateur Rocketry. See attached June 1958 article jpegs.

6/58 Chicago Tribune Danger in Homemade Rockets Teen Groups Given Aid by Experts as Casualties Mount There's Danger in Rockets STORM WARNINGS are being posted all over the country this summer, as parents and public get wind of a perilous new teen-age pastime: Firing homemade rockets.
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  #18  
Old 06-10-2008, 01:09 PM
Gingerdawg Gingerdawg is offline
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Interesting stuff, Shockie.
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  #19  
Old 07-05-2008, 09:46 PM
shockwaveriderz shockwaveriderz is offline
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This month in Model Rocketry History July 1958

7/1/58 Orv H. Carlisle receives patent # 2,841,084 on "Toy Rocket"

http://www.google.com/patents?id=zQ...EBAJ&dq=2841084

7/58 MMI Ad in American Modeler magazine Kit 001-C featured 6 Rock-A-Chutes for $2.95; 3 for $1.50; 1st ad to say Safety Certfied by NAR

7/58 Vernon Estes(NAR #380) starts work on creating "MABEL-1", the worlds first automated model rocket motor machine.

7/29/58 "National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958," Public Law #85-568, 72 Stat., 426. Signed by the President on July 29, 1958

7/58 G. Harry Stines address AMA about starting Model Rocketry program; they decline.

Amateur Rocketry Headlines

7/58 LA Times Teacher Hits Rocket-Type 'Experiments' A high school science and math instructor this week indicted "kid rocketry" as dangerous and useless

7/58 X NY Times JERSEY BOY IS KILLED TESTING TOY ROCKET; TEANECK, N. J., July 30 -- Merrill Poliakoff, 11 years old, was killed here this afternoon while experimenting with rocket propulsion on a toy automobile

7/58 X Washington Post 11-Year-Old Science Prodigy Killed By Home-Made 'Space' Rocket; TEANECK, N.J., July 30 An 11-year-old child prodigy in science who dreamed of the day when he would fly into outer space was killed here today when a home-made rocket charge exploded and ripped into his chest.

7/58 Electronics Illustrated Lt. Col. Charles M. Parkins "Build A Safe Model Missile" Part 1 of 4

7/26/58 26 July 1958: Orbited Explorer-IV satellite weighing 37.16 pounds with 25.76 pounds of payload, perigee 163 miles, apogee 1,373 miles.

attached are the 1st 2 pages from the Amateur Rocketry article from above


terry dean
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Last edited by shockwaveriderz : 07-09-2008 at 09:30 AM.
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  #20  
Old 07-09-2008, 09:02 AM
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Default When will the book be available???

Man the data here about the history of model rocketry is terrific. When will a book with this information be available???
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