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  #21  
Old 10-01-2008, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shockwaveriderz
I've never understood why Estes-Cox who owns all the rights to the Centuri product line has never bothered to come out with a line of Old-new Centuri rockets like they do with their older Estes rockets. Anybody have any insights into this conundrum?

terry dean

IMHO, none of the management are "model rocket" people, or were "rocketeers" in their youth. Their passion is making a good return for the company. They do not think like us, there is no passion for bringing back the products of old. We see bits of hope, like the Interceptors release last year, but that to me seems like a fluke, a rogue in the company (roguepink?) that helped push thru such a wild idea. There is probably nobody at Estes other than Christine who recalls the glory days, and that was for Estes products. It is hard to imagine anyone there understanding or caring anything about the Centuri family of products.

Fortunately, we have Semroc and others helping us relive the dream.
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  #22  
Old 10-01-2008, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeR

One of the Damon-era catalogs can be found in great shape at reasonable prices if you just keep watching.


I made the mistake of just looking at a PDF of one after I made that last post. The mental "To be cloned" list exploded. I had to look away. So little time, so many cool rockets...
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  #23  
Old 10-02-2008, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreadvector
"Centuri" is a company name.

Centuri was not absorbed by Estes. Centuri did not shut down.

Centuri corporation actually owned (and may still own - don't know how it's currently structured in the "Estes-Cox" era) Estes.

Centuri corp simply stopped making Centuri branded rocket products for retail sale. Look at the Estes catalogs and copright info in the not-so-distant-past. They say "Centuri corp."

They way I understand it: "Because corporate tax laws are reputedly more favorable in Arizona than they are in Colorado, Centuri became the phantom parent company of Estes, and any associated company, like Cox in the post-Damon days . Much of the Estes and Cox literature of the past couple years even says "Centuri Corporation" on it."

More Centuri Corp./Estes info.: http://www.answers.com/topic/centuri-1
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  #24  
Old 10-02-2008, 01:54 AM
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  #25  
Old 10-02-2008, 12:23 PM
shockwaveriderz shockwaveriderz is offline
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so now we know the entire history of Estes Industries,Inc and Centuri Enginneering,inc

1958-1969 Owned By Vern Estes first was Estes Enterprises then Estes Industries,Inc

was Estes Enterprises up to around late 1959 early 1960

1961-1970 Centuri Engineering.Inc owned by Lee Piester

1969-1989 Owned by Damon Corp.

1970-1983 approx. Centuri Engineering owned also by Damon Corp.

1989-1990 approx owned by NOAMD Partners LLC

1990-2002 Owned by TCW named Centuri Corp.

2002-Currently Owned by Barry Tunick et al Named Estes-Cox Corp.

and don't forget that Vern Estes stayed on at Estes Industries in various capacaties till around 1984 amd Lee Piester stayed at CEI till around 74-75.

terry dean
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  #26  
Old 10-02-2008, 12:54 PM
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cool, thanks guys, this explains a lot! sounds like vern must have retired a rich man. i wonder what the annual revenue of cox/estes is these days?
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  #27  
Old 10-02-2008, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joecool
cool, thanks guys, this explains a lot! sounds like vern must have retired a rich man. i wonder what the annual revenue of cox/estes is these days?


Vern had other business ventures and investments also.
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  #28  
Old 10-02-2008, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joecool
i've got another answer - it's called ignorant and too lazy to get educated. if it was just greed they would bring back the centuri catalog - 1000's of BARs would be tripping over themselves to get these kits at any reasonable price, and they'd spark a new interest in the younger crowd who haven't ever seen this kind of exciting design.


I've just finished reading all the Centuri catalogs over at http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/rockets.html and from what I saw of the their lineup (Centuri was before my time but I had older friends who were VERY loyal to Centuri) other than the licensed products like the Evel Knievel, Space 1999, and Buck Rogers ships, most of their more interesting stuff, like their early 70's space shuttle (back when it was based on Max Faget's design with straight wings and fully reusable liquid flyback booster, before the Air Force partnership forced it to become delta winged), is available from Semroc...

As for what Shreadvector said, yes, technically correct, but like joecooler I don't personally care about all the business semantics of who really owns who and 'they did this for that tax benefit' and all that jazz... go read the last Centuri catalog, it's a complete departure from their previous catalogs, virtually identical to the Estes Catalog of the same time period, obviously produced by the same printer, and the following year the Centuri products disappeared. You can't buy a Centuri ANYTHING that was manufactured after 1983, so for most of us in the unwashed masses, we equate that with being 'out of business' or absorbed since 83. Estes DOES still use SOME old Centuri size stuff (BT-56 being the most notable one that comes to mind). Estes is still producing stuff under their name, even though they're owned by Cox or whatever. Cox also used to make model rockets, but are 'gone' now too, in that there aren't any Cox branded MR products anymore. Estes also bought up North Coast Rocketry, which was a pretty big name in M/HPR back in the late 80's (when I was in high school us rocket nerds LOVED their catalogs because they had some HOT chicks displaying their rockets Estes bought them out after I was out of rocketry in tech school, but from what I've read Estes didn't keep the NCR products going for too long before they 'faded away' too.

Sorry tbzep if I'm long winded... sometimes too much information to convey, and I've been trained to be very precise in my communication..

OL JR

PS. I'd add Dr. Zooch to that list of cottage industry innovators that has the 'old Estes spirit" lacking in the big corporate world... OL JR
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  #29  
Old 10-02-2008, 04:01 PM
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Ok here's a question for the historians amongst us...

How come about halfway thru the Centuri catalogs over on ninfinger the greeting page, which was always signed "Lee" (Lee Piester) suddenly changed to "Grant Boyd"?? Did Lee sell off Centuri or turn it over to someone else, as I also notice a slight but distinct change in the 'production qualities' of the catalog and product lines about the same time.

The catalogs are all signed "Grant" or "Grant Boyd" until the next to last one just before the "Estes" Centuri catalog in 83 I think.

Interesting stuff... OL JR
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  #30  
Old 10-02-2008, 04:43 PM
shockwaveriderz shockwaveriderz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luke strawwalker
Ok here's a question for the historians amongst us...

How come about halfway thru the Centuri catalogs over on ninfinger the greeting page, which was always signed "Lee" (Lee Piester) suddenly changed to "Grant Boyd"?? Did Lee sell off Centuri or turn it over to someone else, as I also notice a slight but distinct change in the 'production qualities' of the catalog and product lines about the same time.

The catalogs are all signed "Grant" or "Grant Boyd" until the next to last one just before the "Estes" Centuri catalog in 83 I think.

Interesting stuff... OL JR


Could it be because Lee Piester left Centuri in 74-75 to become a stockbroker and that "Melville" Garnt Boyd stayed behind to run Centuri till 1983? Dane Bolss of Estes Industries was partner to Bill Stine in 1991 when they started Quest Aeerospace and today Dane Boles runs Model Aerospace Co. LLC. http://www.modelaerospace.com/

EDIT The above was edited . I got Grant Boyd and Dane Boles mixed up.

terry dean
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Last edited by shockwaveriderz : 10-02-2008 at 05:51 PM.
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