Sounds like an excellent plan to me. I have a stash I've put together since BAR'ing in 99, and it includes some MPC motors, some Estes shorties, an FSI E booster, some AVI 18mm D's and a few other things. I hope to fly them all eventually.

Doug

Many of the motors that we as REAL model rocketeers (not impulse/add some junk in the cart buyers) want would sell, provided it is marketed through the right channels; HOBBY SHOPS !

I question how much money Estes makes on engines that they sell to Wal-Mart, Meijer, and other ridiculously large chains that carry a little of everything, but not much of anything (including knowledge/intelligence of those selling the product). These stores around me sell engines for around 3.99 to 4.99 per pak vs. about 6.99 at the hobby shops.
They invariably carry ONLY the following engines: A10-PT (useless), A8-3, B6-4, and C6-5...every once in a while C6-7's may show up but I'm sure it is a mis-order. Most hobby shops carry the full line.
I just wish Aerotech would get into mass-production of reasonable-cost small motors...now there is a company that sells REAL variety (it was sad to lose the 18mm RMS baby "E" though)
I bet they could bury Estes if they wanted to and still make money.

I'm pretty sure that Estes makes more profit per unit on those sold to hobby shops than the big box stores. Their marketing focus needs to be directed BACK WHERE IT BELONGS; to the HOBBY (not junk-toy) market, as it was in the 60's/70's/ and even most of the 80's instead of toward stores that carry everything from celery to lawn mowers.
Estes had a somewhat downward (but slow) slide from the point that Vern sold the company, but what has happened after around 1985 is downright shameful. Other than engines the only items I have purchased from Estes in the last 18 years has been the Big Daddy, Saturn V, and the Oracle....everything else has been Semroc/Thrustline/PDR/Aerotech/LOC/Moldin Oldies/Apogee/Neubauer.
If they actually reintroduce the K-29 as the 1229 (which i highly doubt as Semroc is soon to clone it for $45.00) as is rumored I may buy one to collect.

By the way, I have some of those long 18mm AVI "D" engines too.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, TURMOIL, FIASCOS, and HAVOC !

Yeahbut...how many stagers have you put up this year? How many boosters did you burn? If we don't use 'em, Estes won't make 'em.

As for your choices, I think the C11-0 was even better still than the C5-0, but we let that one get away.

As for the A8-0 and A3-0T, I can understand Estes not maintaining 3 different A-impulse boosters. In fact, if it was my call, I'd get rid of all 18mm A & under motors and only do them in 13mm. Any 13mm motor can be flown an 18mm mount, so there's really no loss of flexibility. In fact, there's a gain. Estes could reduce their total A & under variety but actually increase the 13mm options. They could ship one unused 18mm case in each 13mm pack to be used as an adaptor.

The new 13mm A offering would be: A3-5T, A10-3T & A10-0T. These would replace the A8-5, A8-3 and A3-4T. The 1/2A offering would be 1/2A3-4T and 1/2A3-2T (status quo) with the loss of the 1/2A6-2. They would go from the current 6 types to 5, but we would get a long delay 13mm A and an A booster. How's that?

Doug

Yeah, that was a problem. There was a 1-2 dollar premium to get the same impulse in a different form factor. OTOH, I once said I'd be willing to pay extra for exotic motors (eg, B14-0's) so I ponied up and have bought quite a few packs of C11's. I hate to see them go. I've flown more stagers than I can count using them. I have three upscale Midgets (1.4x, 1.6x, 1.76x), an upscale Apogee2 (2x) , my Tuber, and my Comanche-3 which have all been launched with the C11 booster. I'm gonna miss it.

Doug

I've flow staged rockets more times than I can remember last year. This year I have only done single stage rockets for #4 son's science fair project. The guys at PSC can verify how much I launched last summer and fall...right John???

Joe W

Enough of the sad look back

Somebody please give us the bright side, if there be one. Whats on the horizon? Give us some hopeful news. I admit to not being on the ball with what has been hapenning in the industry, but many here hint at brighter days with new motors from new sources. Chinese imports, I hate to say, sound hopeful. Quest had some ambitious plans, did they not? Are there any "new" Vernon Estes out there, with a love for the sport and manufacturing capabilities?

Doug,
I really like your proposal for getting rid of 18mm 1/2A and A engines and replacing them all with 13mm, especially if we could get the equivalent to a 1/2A6-0 (the old 1/2A3-0T would be fine) and the A10-0T back.
I just bought 6 paks of A10-0T's from a hobby shop in Northern Michigan last month.
When flying A's I have already all but replaced the 18mm motors anyway; I save my empty/used 18mm engines, bore out the nozzle and insert the mini-motor 1/4, 1/2, and full A's into these in order to fit them to my smaller 18mm models. As this may or may not be considered motor modification (to the expended 18mm casing) this may not be NAR legal.
In that case one can buy Dummy/Empty 18mm casings from Semroc cheaply and use them infinitely as adaptor sleeves. This could not be possibly against the safety code.

I'm definitely all for consolidation of equivalent motors especially if it will get us at least 1 or two different offerings such as a 1/2A or A booster or a B14/B8 or C5 equivalent or an 18mm "Baby" D similar to the old Cox D8 or a high thrust 24mm BP D booster (like the old FSI D20/D18 core burner, but MORE reliable). One would think a hi-thrust core burning motor based on the D12 would be easy & would not have to have a drilled core like the B14.... a manufacturer could cast/pound the BP slug around a "core-spike" made of a non-sparking brass like material.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, TURMOIL, FIASCOS, and HAVOC !

For me, I see virtually no bright side to the BP engine side of the hobby.
Lots of great part and kit manufacturers in the LPR area of rocketry though....even better than in the heyday late 60's/early 70's in my opinion...I just wish the motor arena went hand in hand with the kits/parts.
As far as I'm concerned, the "new" Vern Estes is Carl at Semroc; his selection of Estes/Centuri parts makes cloning a snap, and who else would have a K-29 Saturn 1B Clone( for $45.00, 1/70 Little Joe II (for $18.00), a Mars Lander, and an Aero Dart (for $30) coming soon as new kits in addition to all the great kits/clones he offers ?
Semroc's service and quality are second to none, prices are great, shipment is FAST, and they even give free kits when you order so much just like Centuri/Estes used to in the old days.
Another great manufacturer is PD Rocketry, if you like the 1970's era Estes kits...he has may items from the K-21 Gemini Titan to the Thor-Agena B to the A20 Demon. Quality is also VERY good.
For me the bright side of MOTORS is in the MPR-HPR area of motors which their seems to be almost infinite variety; unfortuantely the costs sometimes seem infinite too !

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, TURMOIL, FIASCOS, and HAVOC !

Unless Estes/Quest, or somebody else does come up with some new and different motors, I won't be buying many motors for a while. I haven't counted to be exact, but I probably have around 450 motors that I've picked up over the last few years on clearance sales, going out of business sales, coupon days at HL, etc. The vast majority of them are normal motors, including boosters of 13mm, 18mm, 24mm sizes (including C11-0's), plugged E15 and D11-P's, and all the normal motor sizes and delays from 1/4A to E9. I've made myself slack off on buying motors until I can burn off a decent amount of the inventory, but if I catch another clearance sale, you bet I'll jump on it.

If Estes or Quest comes up with something new and different, I'll buy a few. If Semroc or another US company is able to start motor production, I'll buy some of whatever they come out with to help get the business started. You can never have too many motor manufacturers or motors!


BTW, for the folks that want to import from China. The pyrotechnics hobby is pretty strong. Has anybody tried working with them to piggyback some motor shipments from China to go along with some of their imported components or completed fireworks? I think I've read that at least one of some of their motors manufacturerd by fireworks companies anyway. I don't really know, just a shot in the dark....

ok, found the link tot he Chinese Motors I had.

http://www.made-in-china.com/produc...6-4,_D5-0).html

now, look that over and note the 'cool' and IN PRODUCTION motors we'd want :-)

just need to find a way to get them intot he US, I know I've written / contacted this company with little results, and Phred has tried to get samples for his collection, with no response that I know of.

check the 12.5mm dia B2 and the 20mm D5-0 !

~ AL

( dreaming of good BP motors )