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  #41  
Old 12-19-2017, 01:11 PM
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I totally agree that the angled Centuri Deflector was much better than the Estes flat-plate.
Estes should have changed theirs to match the Centuri design. FAR better at keeping "blast debris" off the tail of rocket.
The Estes design only served to protect the PAD, not the rocket.
It actually deflects the blast back UP at the ROCKET.
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  #42  
Old 12-19-2017, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
I totally agree that the angled Centuri Deflector was much better than the Estes flat-plate.
Estes should have changed theirs to match the Centuri design. FAR better at keeping "blast debris" off the tail of rocket.
The Estes design only served to protect the PAD, not the rocket.
It actually deflects the blast back UP at the ROCKET.

Estes had an angled deflector sold as an accessory in the 70's, but it wasn't as fancy. The Centuri version should have been added as an accessory when the two companies products started crossing over.
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  #43  
Old 12-20-2017, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
Estes had an angled deflector sold as an accessory in the 70's, but it wasn't as fancy. The Centuri version should have been added as an accessory when the two companies products started crossing over.
I'd forgotten about that one! If its depicting drawing is accurate, that blast deflector was yet another design--a section of a circle, with "near edgewise" pressed-in stiffening ribs, with one bent-over section at the top where the launch lug slipped through a punched hole. (The "Fin-Kwik" also looks like it was a versatile, heavy-duty tool; I'd buy one of them, too, if Estes re-issued it...)
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  #44  
Old 12-20-2017, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
I'd forgotten about that one! If its depicting drawing is accurate, that blast deflector was yet another design--a section of a circle, with "near edgewise" pressed-in stiffening ribs, with one bent-over section at the top where the launch lug slipped through a punched hole. (The "Fin-Kwik" also looks like it was a versatile, heavy-duty tool; I'd buy one of them, too, if Estes re-issued it...)



I remember hearing 'reading' that Estes had acquired some (if not all) of MMI's inventory. That curved deflector looks to be same one included in the MMI Arcon kit. In the 2nd 1961 Estes catalog a complete MMI style launch pad was offered, at least it looks like one.
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  #45  
Old 12-21-2017, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnNGA
I remember hearing 'reading' that Estes had acquired some (if not all) of MMI's inventory. That curved deflector looks to be same one included in the MMI Arcon kit. In the 2nd 1961 Estes catalog a complete MMI style launch pad was offered, at least it looks like one.
Yes--the earliest Estes catalogs feature the vinyl plastic MMI Aerobee-Hi (and Arcon) nose cone, and perhaps other MMI rocket parts (I think Estes re-designated the MMI body tube--or at least subsequent-production tubes of the same size--as BT-40).
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Last edited by blackshire : 12-21-2017 at 01:36 AM.
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  #46  
Old 12-21-2017, 10:01 AM
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I remember being mystified by references to the BT-40 in Estes literature I read in the early 70s. How could a whole body tube GO AWAY?

Later read all about it in scanned catalogs. The BT-40 was convolute-wound, like the BT-30. There was another, shorter plastic cone available for it, as well as balsa cones, bulkheads, and payload sections.

VERY early catalogs referred to BT-1, BT-2, and BT-3. I don't recall the mapping.
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  #47  
Old 12-21-2017, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
I remember being mystified by references to the BT-40 in Estes literature I read in the early 70s. How could a whole body tube GO AWAY?

Later read all about it in scanned catalogs. The BT-40 was convolute-wound, like the BT-30. There was another, shorter plastic cone available for it, as well as balsa cones, bulkheads, and payload sections.

VERY early catalogs referred to BT-1, BT-2, and BT-3. I don't recall the mapping.
I first encountered that designation in the Estes plans for the "Maple seed" rocket (it may have had another name; it was similar in general layout and operation to the Flutter-By kit). The model used a BT-40 "outer" section--which had two fins and the glued-in nose cone, plus slots for two other fins--that was sleeve-fitted over the BT-20 (or BT-30) motor mount section, which had the other two fins. I wonder if Estes made those shorter BT-40 plastic nose cones, or if MMI had (for some third kit that never reached production before MMI went out of business). The BT-1, -2, and -3 designations were changed very soon after Estes Industries commenced doing business.
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  #48  
Old 12-21-2017, 05:36 PM
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My guess would be that the short plastic cones were (like the fin cans) firework components.

Vern or Gleda might remember, but we're getting into micro-history here.

I remain bummed that firework fin cans of the spin-fin and Dirty Bird variety are no longer around. I've seen new ones, but they look "wrong." Oddly angled.
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  #49  
Old 12-23-2017, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
My guess would be that the short plastic cones were (like the fin cans) firework components.

Vern or Gleda might remember, but we're getting into micro-history here.

I remain bummed that firework fin cans of the spin-fin and Dirty Bird variety are no longer around. I've seen new ones, but they look "wrong." Oddly angled.
That sounds plausible, since Vern Estes was in the fireworks business before he started Estes Industries. Although I don't know any personally, there are fireworks historians and artifact collectors. If any of them have the short BT-40 nose cones and the spin-fin and Dirty Bird fin cans, if they measured them, these parts could be 3D printed, even in a "hard rubber-like plastic" similar to that of the original parts.
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  #50  
Old 12-24-2017, 09:58 AM
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I don't recall hearing that Vern Estes was in the fireworks business. He owned a construction business. Orville Carlisle, who sent the first motors and models to Stine, was into fireworks.

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