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  #21  
Old 09-28-2010, 01:29 PM
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For fillets, try "Tacky Glue" which you can get at JoAnns or Michaels. It's a thicker white glue.

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  #22  
Old 09-28-2010, 01:33 PM
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Apparently I was misunderstood. The CHINESE Glue-All I have is thicker than the USA Glue-All. The labeling is very similar between the two, though the Chinese bottle has a copyright date of 2007 on the label vs. the 2008 date on the USA version. The content of both labels is the same, but there are some detail differences in the appearance. They both say "reorder No. E372". Above (well, to the left of) the bar code on the back label the Chinese one says 372 11001CN where the US one says 372 11001US. There is something that looks like a date/lot code in dot-matrix ink on the US one but it's high enough on the bottle to have fallen on enough curve that it is illegible. It looks like the lot number is stamped into the label below the bar code on the Chinese bottle but it, too, is illegible.

Neither of these is the "new stronger forumla" I've seen on store shelves recently.
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  #23  
Old 09-28-2010, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
I've used Elmer's "Pro Bond" yellow before, and find it just slightly thinner than Titebond II. It doesn't have the same 'tack', either. Haven't seen this new formulation yet, but I may try it out.

Titebond III is another thinner formulation, with a brown tint instead of yellow. It's also not as 'tacky' as the II.

I just keep coming back to II after trying different glues. Nothing seems to work quite as well, most joints are dry to the touch and relatively firm in about 20 minutes, and I don't have a big issue with the shrinkage -- nothing a little FNF, or just a few extra coats of Kilz, can't fill and cover.


I like the Titebond II above the other yellow glues as well... just seems to work better.

I like the Elmer's white glue (glue-all) for paper/paper joints-- haven't had any problems with it there, but then it's been awhile since I bought new glue...

I LOVE the Titebond Moulding/Trim glue as a final pass for fillets-- I use a double-glue joint with Titebond II yellow for attaching the fins to the body, generally run a light fillet with the T-II yellow to smooth out any glue pressed out of the root edge and give a little more 'bite' to the fillet, then when dry top-dress it with a full fillet of TMTG, which dries clear and smooth with no shrinkage or bubbles to worry about, and cleans up with water. Works great.

I have some Aileene's Tacky Glue and used it for paper wraps before, but it sets up a little quickly for that. Might try it in lieu of regular Elmer's white on the next build for the paper/paper joints just to see how it works... I'll stick to Elmer's for papering fins and paper wraps though...

Later! OL JR
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  #24  
Old 09-28-2010, 03:11 PM
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I use Aleene's Tacky Glue mainly for aeroshrouds on older Qhest kits (X-30, Clipper, MQ2Q, etc.) because is won't soak the paper and cause the glossy side to pucker. But for paper wraps on a 1B or SV it can be tricky, and it's very hard to reposition the wrap if you get it wrong.
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  #25  
Old 09-28-2010, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetlag
I can fix all of this: Epoxy.

Weight penalty is absolutely minimal; strong; no shrinkage issues; makes beautiful fillets with no bubbles later; can use fillers and colorants in the mix; can control set/dry time; etc., etc.

Can move the engine mount repeatedly until I'm happy with it. This is the reason I use epoxy for most of my engine mount installations (and thrust rings in minimum-diameter rockets). The fact that it doesn't seize up before I'm done is a big plus.

But I wouldn't attach fins with anything other than yellow glue, and I use Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Glue for that. Only once have I had trouble with it, and that was a very high humidity issue (it took FOREVER to dry while assembling my daughter's Big Bertha).
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  #26  
Old 09-28-2010, 03:57 PM
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I just use whatever white or yellow glue I have on hand, adapting my application techniques to the type and formulation I have.

The only "glue disaster" I ever had was when I was building my EAC (Estes Aerospace Club) Viper back in 1977 or 1978, using Elmer's Glue-All. When the fin glue joints dried, they were as flexible as if I had used rubber cement--I could actually flex the rocket's rear fins from side-to-side almost an inch at their tips without deforming the body tube! Adding the fillets "tightened up" the fin joints only slightly. I built several kits before and after the EAC Viper using that same bottle of glue, and none of them exhibited those strangely-rubbery fin glue joints.
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  #27  
Old 09-28-2010, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC

Neither of these is the "new stronger forumla" I've seen on store shelves recently.


Supposedly the "original" Elmer's is SKU 379. School Glue is SKU 301. The NR suffix on the SKU I saw was to identify the product as not to be sold retail - which I have found on several of the bottles I purchased at the School Box. The suggestion from Elmer's is to use the Hardware Glue All, which is SKU E381. The lot number is supposedly printed over the label as opposed to being printed with the label usually below the bar code. I never knew that there was such complexity in the multi-million dollar world of non-rendered adhesives (Sorry Blackshire)

All I wanted was some White Glue that works the way it did last month...
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  #28  
Old 09-29-2010, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharding58
-SNIP-I never knew that there was such complexity in the multi-million dollar world of non-rendered adhesives (Sorry Blackshire)
I have no objections to rendering per se, as long as it occurs after the natural end of an equine life (or one that is mercifully cut short due to severe chronic pain or a debilitating injury or illness). As I said to my owner (whom I have found), "I know I'm getting at least a few decades ahead of ourselves here, but if you find me dead in my stall one morning or have to have me put down to end my misery, I would not be the least bit bothered if you donated my remains to a homeless shelter's kitchen and/or to a glue factory, as I'll have no further need for them at that point. In fact, I would be pleased--looking in on this realm--if I saw that you had mounted my head & neck and my front hooves on your wall as hat racks, because I would at least still be of some service to you."
Quote:
Originally Posted by jharding58
All I wanted was some White Glue that works the way it did last month...
Aleene's Original "Tacky" Glue (white craft glue) is a good alternative to Elmer's (G. Harry Stine liked using it for model rocket construction, too). In the ~10 years that I have used it, its formulation doesn't seem to have been changed at all. Aleene's also makes a good aliphatic resin glue (yellow wood glue) called Aleene's All-Purpose Wood Glue that I have used to build rockets with excellent results. It's dyed tan to more closely match the color of wood.
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Last edited by blackshire : 09-29-2010 at 12:43 AM. Reason: This ol' hoss done forgot somethin'.
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  #29  
Old 09-29-2010, 10:47 AM
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I assemble all my LPR stuff with Titebond II, but abandoned it for fillets long ago due to the shinkage/pinhole issues if you fillet more than in the thinnest possible layers.
For a while I switched to regular old Elmers to fillet only, but have since gone away from that unless the project requires a TON of fillets on many surfaces (Such as on a SS Cassiopeia).
Now I use epoxy for about 98% of all filleting jobs.
It weighs LITTLE more for the amount needed on any typical LPR build, and it makes a PERFECT single-pass fillet that has ZERO shrinkage issues.
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  #30  
Old 09-29-2010, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
I assemble all my LPR stuff with Titebond II, but abandoned it for fillets long ago due to the shinkage/pinhole issues if you fillet more than in the thinnest possible layers.

For a while I switched to regular old Elmers to fillet only, but have since gone away from that unless the project requires a TON of fillets on many surfaces (Such as on a SS Cassiopeia).

Now I use epoxy for about 98% of all filleting jobs.
It weighs LITTLE more for the amount needed on any typical LPR build, and it makes a PERFECT single-pass fillet that has ZERO shrinkage issues.
I abandoned glue fillets very early on in my BAR-dom. Seems like, after laying on a good fillet with yellow glue on one of my first rockets, the shrinkage and craters were quite evident...and ugly. Fortunately, the filler I first tried happened to be FnF, and worked like a charm. I do 98% of my fillets, including HPR, with FnF and now its successor, CWF.

It doesn't set as fast as epoxy, but it's lighter. In some cases, that's an advantage.

Either way, I find yellow glue, any brand, to make for cosmetically poor fillets. I limit myself to adding one glue fillet to model rocket fins, for strength, then applying filler for looks and aerodynamics.

Doug

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