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  #21  
Old 01-02-2011, 07:20 AM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManofSteele
Actually, Barry did make a real effort to reach out to the European market. Barry, Mike Helmund and I traveled to the Nurenbuerg Toy Fair in 1994, IIRC. It was a big point of emphasis for a number of years. But it is a hard market to penetrate.

One thing we take for granted in the US is NASA and the space program, from John Glenn and the Mercury program all the way through the shuttle. There really is no big, visible, European equivalent. As a result, the hobby is virtually unknown, and there is not the awareness of space that we, as Americans, take for granted. There is no real interest, as there is in the States.

In addition, regulations are complex, and the urban density make it difficult to buy and fly rockets.

It is a tough market to build, and frankly, it was not very profitable, despite a good effort. I doubt that the market situation is much better today.

Matt



Matt


Do you think it would be wise for Estes to pursue a European market?

And, the space program has wound down here in the US after the manned flights to the Moon and it seems to be the interest in NASA and flight are back page news unfortunately.

What about a Russian marketplace, at least they have a space program and the US depends upon them to shuttle astronauts to the International Space Station.

Why are Europeans more into contest flying rather than hobby flying?

Who are the motors maker in Europe? Other than those made by cottage industries?

What exactly did Barry do to increase marketshare into Europe, was it just a one time effort or was it an ongoing thing?

Would you say that there is any area in Wurope that could benefit from a rocketry program or do you think it would be a waste of time to pursue a European marketplace.

RD
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  #22  
Old 01-02-2011, 11:09 AM
shockwaveriderz shockwaveriderz is offline
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A better market than Europe would probably be India and China as they both seem to be going through what we did in the 1960's per space. A Race to the Moon between India and China?

Terry Dean
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  #23  
Old 01-02-2011, 11:49 AM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
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Originally Posted by shockwaveriderz
A better market than Europe would probably be India and China as they both seem to be going through what we did in the 1960's per space. A Race to the Moon between India and China?

Terry Dean



At least in China, shipping would not be a part of the price. Made In Chine For China.........
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  #24  
Old 01-02-2011, 12:00 PM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
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Russia
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  #25  
Old 01-02-2011, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Doctor
Why are Europeans more into contest flying rather than hobby flying?



Consider what the US market would be like if sport flying did not dominate. A small group of hard-core participants who would do almost anything to compete. I suspect the lack of open land and a more restrictive regulatory environment never let sport flying develop over there.


Bill
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  #26  
Old 01-02-2011, 07:11 PM
ManofSteele ManofSteele is offline
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Q) Do you think it would be wise for Estes to pursue a European market?
A) Actually, I think it is not worth the effort. What ended up being most productive was to support a few of the import companies by shipping specific products for their needs, then letting them take over the regulatory, shipping and promotion activities.

Q) And, the space program has wound down here in the US after the manned flights to the Moon and it seems to be the interest in NASA and flight are back page news unfortunately.
A) Nothing will match the excitement we saw in the 60s, not here, nor in Europe, India or China. Too much of a 'been there, done that" attitude to re-create a huge wave of interest.

Q) What about a Russian marketplace, at least they have a space program and the US depends upon them to shuttle astronauts to the International Space Station.
Why are Europeans more into contest flying rather than hobby flying?

A) Because that's all they have - keep in mind that the US is a rich market with many people who have disposable cash. It is just not that way in other countries, where spacemodeling is viewed as a "niche' hobby, just like model sailboats.


Q) What exactly did Barry do to increase marketshare into Europe, was it just a one time effort or was it an ongoing thing?
A) Estes tried for at least six years, IIRC - Mike Hellmund's position was director of international marketing, and Mary Roberts was very involved in all the regulatory issues. There was a big outreach effort that tried to educate retailers as to the product, but there was not a lot of interest. At our booth in Nurenburg, the thing they were most interested in were the Cox .049 engines, not rockets.

Q) Would you say that there is any area in Europe that could benefit from a rocketry program or do you think it would be a waste of time to pursue a European marketplace?
A) I think it deserves a low level of support, but to spend a lot of time and money would be a waste. It is not the same market as the US.

Matt
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  #27  
Old 01-02-2011, 08:12 PM
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Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
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So, Matt, what do you do in Phoenix?

Jerry
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  #28  
Old 01-02-2011, 09:50 PM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManofSteele
Q) Do you think it would be wise for Estes to pursue a European market?
A) Actually, I think it is not worth the effort. What ended up being most productive was to support a few of the import companies by shipping specific products for their needs, then letting them take over the regulatory, shipping and promotion activities.

Q) And, the space program has wound down here in the US after the manned flights to the Moon and it seems to be the interest in NASA and flight are back page news unfortunately.
A) Nothing will match the excitement we saw in the 60s, not here, nor in Europe, India or China. Too much of a 'been there, done that" attitude to re-create a huge wave of interest.

Q) What about a Russian marketplace, at least they have a space program and the US depends upon them to shuttle astronauts to the International Space Station.
Why are Europeans more into contest flying rather than hobby flying?

A) Because that's all they have - keep in mind that the US is a rich market with many people who have disposable cash. It is just not that way in other countries, where spacemodeling is viewed as a "niche' hobby, just like model sailboats.


Q) What exactly did Barry do to increase marketshare into Europe, was it just a one time effort or was it an ongoing thing?
A) Estes tried for at least six years, IIRC - Mike Hellmund's position was director of international marketing, and Mary Roberts was very involved in all the regulatory issues. There was a big outreach effort that tried to educate retailers as to the product, but there was not a lot of interest. At our booth in Nurenburg, the thing they were most interested in were the Cox .049 engines, not rockets.

Q) Would you say that there is any area in Europe that could benefit from a rocketry program or do you think it would be a waste of time to pursue a European marketplace?
A) I think it deserves a low level of support, but to spend a lot of time and money would be a waste. It is not the same market as the US.

Matt



Thank You Matt
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  #29  
Old 02-07-2011, 10:05 AM
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Oliver Oliver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Doctor
I have visited that site, tried to sign up for that sight and then after signing up tried several times to access the info and the site kept telling me to sign in again???


Sorry for the late reply - looks like your browser does not permit cookies so the webserver cannot recognize you? If not, just drop me a message and we´ll fix it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shockwaveriderz
ZVS DUBNICA a.s. also a Slovak company makes model rocket size engines like an A3-4,A3-6, B2-x,etc I assume these are Black Powder. You can find these on several Czech/Slovak online hobby stores.


Unfortunatly, Dubnica seems to be out of business since a while. The only one who makes engines in former Czechoslovakia is Jiri Taborsky I guess?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManofSteele
Estes tried for at least six years, IIRC - Mike Hellmund's position was director of international marketing, and Mary Roberts was very involved in all the regulatory issues. There was a big outreach effort that tried to educate retailers as to the product, but there was not a lot of interest. At our booth in Nurenburg, the thing they were most interested in were the Cox .049 engines, not rockets.


Matt, keep in mind that in Nuremberg the booth was mostly frequented by hobby store owners. Hobby shops in Germany (as well as in most other European areas) are very tradtional, selling airplanes, ships and cars. They do not care too much about rockets. In the US, hobby stores carry model rockets for decades so they know them.

But the other point is that even in the US, most sales I guess are, in the meantime, made by toy stores, Walmart and so on. Due to lots of restrictions (age and propellant limits) this was never a target market in Germany.

But anyway, the market grewed up in the past years. Weco, the German motor manufactuter, has now a good figure of engines they produce each year. I think most sales growth was made by online stores during the past years (it´s still hard to find local stores carrying rockets).

Estes has just announced on the Nuremberg Toy Fair that Revell will now start selling its products in Germany this summer. Revell is not just a well-known brand, it has also strong precence in the toy market.

Another point is that the European Union released new regulations for pyrotechnical devices going into effect 2013. This could be a change to liberate some strict regulations in some countries - on the other hand, it may even get worser if we do not take care about it.

Another news, btw, is that Klima, who imports Quest to Germany, will start producing own engines this year. I´m pretty sure they will even appear in the US sooner or later under the Quest label
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  #30  
Old 02-07-2011, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver
Another news, btw, is that Klima, who imports Quest to Germany, will start producing own engines this year. I´m pretty sure they will even appear in the US sooner or later under the Quest label



Quest motors sold in the US had been made in Germany in the past. I do not recall the reason(s) they switched to the current Chinese source. Availability? Cost? Quality? Regulations? Politics?

Some people like the long burning of the Chinese motors, the most common complaint being the confusion with Estes motors with the same rating and differing thrust curves.


Bill
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