Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > The Golden Age of Model Rocketry > Model Rocket History
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-07-2011, 09:42 PM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 6,507
Default Alpha III "mystery part?"

Hello All,

In the 1971 Estes catalog, in which the Alpha III was first listed (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...1/711est16.html ), the box on that page labeled "Plastic Replacement Parts FOR ALPHA III" listed a part called "Adapter 711-PTA-2050A" along with the plastic nose cone (711-PNC-50K) and the plastic fin unit (711-PFS-50A). What was/is this adapter--the mylar motor clip retainer ring, perhaps?

(I doubt this because the mylar retainer ring's designation was/is "HR-20" in the Alpha III kit instructions [see: http://www.oldrocketplans.com/estes/est1256/est1256.pdf ], although I suppose this part's identification number may have been changed over the years. The Saros' plastic BT-50 to BT-20 reducer adapter had a similar designation, "PTA-2050" [see: http://www.oldrocketplans.com/estes/estK-54/estK-54.pdf ], but this part was certainly never used in the Alpha III kit.)

Many thanks in advance to anyone who can shed light on this.
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

Last edited by blackshire : 01-07-2011 at 10:05 PM. Reason: This ol' hoss done forgot somethin'.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-07-2011, 11:19 PM
CPMcGraw's Avatar
CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
BARCLONE Rocketry
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 5,357
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Hello All,

In the 1971 Estes catalog, in which the Alpha III was first listed (see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...1/711est16.html ), the box on that page labeled "Plastic Replacement Parts FOR ALPHA III" listed a part called "Adapter 711-PTA-2050A" along with the plastic nose cone (711-PNC-50K) and the plastic fin unit (711-PFS-50A). What was/is this adapter--the mylar motor clip retainer ring, perhaps?

(I doubt this because the mylar retainer ring's designation was/is "HR-20" in the Alpha III kit instructions [see: http://www.oldrocketplans.com/estes/est1256/est1256.pdf ], although I suppose this part's identification number may have been changed over the years. The Saros' plastic BT-50 to BT-20 reducer adapter had a similar designation, "PTA-2050" [see: http://www.oldrocketplans.com/estes/estK-54/estK-54.pdf ], but this part was certainly never used in the Alpha III kit.)

Many thanks in advance to anyone who can shed light on this.


I'm going to make a wild guess here...

Since we're talking about the Alpha III, the only conceivable part it could be is a set of plastic adapter rings. One (or both) may have had a flat notch or a split molded into it for the engine hook to slip through.

This is one of the plan scans we're still looking for (I think), the earliest release of the Alpha III (K-Series), K-56.
__________________
Craig McGraw

BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com
BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com
BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum

BARs helping BARs

SAM 0044
AMA 352635
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-08-2011, 12:49 AM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 6,507
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
I'm going to make a wild guess here...

Since we're talking about the Alpha III, the only conceivable part it could be is a set of plastic adapter rings. One (or both) may have had a flat notch or a split molded into it for the engine hook to slip through.

This is one of the plan scans we're still looking for (I think), the earliest release of the Alpha III (K-Series), K-56.
That was something I had conjectured as well. The "P" in "PTA-2050A" would seem to denote "Plastic," and the "2050" portion of the part number suggests BT-20/BT-50 adapter rings (centering rings for the BT-20 motor mount tube).

If so, the very earliest Alpha III kits would have been assembled using tube-type plastic model cement. My guess is that they realized that paper centering rings were not only lighter, but that the single forward paper ring would (using white glue or yellow wood glue, which made the kit more "kid-friendly" and safer) be sufficient to bond the fin unit/motor mount assembly into the body tube *without* having to bond the tenon of the plastic fin unit into the body tube using tube-type plastic cement.
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-19-2011, 01:47 PM
UPscaler's Avatar
UPscaler UPscaler is offline
AP burner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Spring,TX
Posts: 113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
I'm going to make a wild guess here...

Since we're talking about the Alpha III, the only conceivable part it could be is a set of plastic adapter rings. One (or both) may have had a flat notch or a split molded into it for the engine hook to slip through.

This is one of the plan scans we're still looking for (I think), the earliest release of the Alpha III (K-Series), K-56.

I have four unopened K-56 kits. I'm going to build one, I'll get you a scan



Braden
__________________
Active rockets:
Extreme Darkstar(HPR)
BSD 4" Little John(HPR)
Ultimate Darkstar (HPR)
5.5 polecat NIKE smoke (HPR)
Retired:
Estes Mosquito (Mini Brute)
under construction:
L1 5.5" Standard ARM
RIP Erik Gates. Your talents will never be forgotten.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-19-2011, 10:41 PM
BEC's Avatar
BEC BEC is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auburn, Washington
Posts: 3,643
Default

I'd like to see that info too....since I've started to get into the minutiae of rockets that use the Alpha III fin can....so I'd love to know more details about the original K-56.
__________________
Bernard Cawley
NAR 89040 L1 - Life Member
SAM 0061
AMA 42160
KG7AIE
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-19-2011, 10:57 PM
UPscaler's Avatar
UPscaler UPscaler is offline
AP burner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Spring,TX
Posts: 113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC
I'd like to see that info too....since I've started to get into the minutiae of rockets that use the Alpha III fin can....so I'd love to know more details about the original K-56.

I was going to send a PDF scan to each of the plan sites, because I'm nice like that


I'm going to my "secret place" and hopefully coming back with three more on monday. Two have crushed body tubes, which is a bummer, but those ones can be had cheap. I didn't have enough cash on me to grab them all today.

Based on Gerry Fortin's Site, these good condition ones go for, on average about $60. Then again, he's only ever seen three for sale

They have slight compressions on the body tubes, but what can you expect, they're 25 years old. Other than that they are in great condition.

One's plastic bag has been peeled away from the hang tag, so it's slightly open, I'll be building that one.


Braden
__________________
Active rockets:
Extreme Darkstar(HPR)
BSD 4" Little John(HPR)
Ultimate Darkstar (HPR)
5.5 polecat NIKE smoke (HPR)
Retired:
Estes Mosquito (Mini Brute)
under construction:
L1 5.5" Standard ARM
RIP Erik Gates. Your talents will never be forgotten.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-20-2011, 12:41 AM
BEC's Avatar
BEC BEC is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auburn, Washington
Posts: 3,643
Default

If you want to then sell off one of those with the crushed BT, I'd be interested.
__________________
Bernard Cawley
NAR 89040 L1 - Life Member
SAM 0061
AMA 42160
KG7AIE
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-20-2011, 12:51 AM
Mark II's Avatar
Mark II Mark II is offline
Forest Sprite
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Back Up in the Woods
Posts: 3,657
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
This is one of the plan scans we're still looking for (I think), the earliest release of the Alpha III (K-Series), K-56.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UPscaler
I have four unopened K-56 kits. I'm going to build one, I'll get you a scan
Quote:
Originally Posted by UPscaler
They have slight compressions on the body tubes, but what can you expect, they're 25 years old. Other than that they are in great condition.

Braden
If they are 25 years old, then they cannot be original K-series Alpha III kits. The last year for the original K-series version was 1974. What you have are #1256 kits from 1986, and they were made at least 11 years after the final run of the original K-56 Alpha III.
__________________
Mark S. Kulka NAR #86134 L1,_ASTRE #471_Adirondack Mountains, NY
Opinions Unfettered by Logic • Advice Unsullied by Erudition • Rocketry Without Pity
+09281962-TAK-08272007+
SAM # 0011
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-20-2011, 11:18 AM
CPMcGraw's Avatar
CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
BARCLONE Rocketry
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 5,357
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
If they are 25 years old, then they cannot be original K-series Alpha III kits. The last year for the original K-series version was 1974. What you have are #1256 kits from 1986, and they were made at least 11 years after the final run of the original K-56 Alpha III.


Perhaps he meant "they're at least 25 years old..."

Technically even I qualify for that description, but don't ask my mommie... she might have other thoughts...can't quit playing with toys...
__________________
Craig McGraw

BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com
BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com
BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum

BARs helping BARs

SAM 0044
AMA 352635
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-20-2011, 11:52 AM
UPscaler's Avatar
UPscaler UPscaler is offline
AP burner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Spring,TX
Posts: 113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
If they are 25 years old, then they cannot be original K-series Alpha III kits. The last year for the original K-series version was 1974. What you have are #1256 kits from 1986, and they were made at least 11 years after the final run of the original K-56 Alpha III.

Mark, you are right and wrong.
When I brought these home, I had a bit to learn about vintage kits.

So with the help of tedzep, I crossed referenced the kits on Gerry's site.

They have a yellow face card, and a black hang tag. In the earliest release, they came with a red face card, then they changed to the yellow face card, with a black hang tag, then changed again to the yellow face card(no hang tag info). Then the K-56 was retired.

So I used his hang tag dating info, which revealed that black hang tag was used from 1982-1985. So, these kits are between 25 and 28 years old (excluding 2011). They say right on the face card, K-56 #1256. Which makes me believe I can't exclude it from being the K-kit line.

These are the kits I referenced on his site, with the mean price of $60.
__________________
Active rockets:
Extreme Darkstar(HPR)
BSD 4" Little John(HPR)
Ultimate Darkstar (HPR)
5.5 polecat NIKE smoke (HPR)
Retired:
Estes Mosquito (Mini Brute)
under construction:
L1 5.5" Standard ARM
RIP Erik Gates. Your talents will never be forgotten.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:25 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe © 1998-2024