I have seen many such kits over the years and, particularly on the small kits such as the Scout, Sprite, etc. the extra plastic above the seal is not unusual...................in fact, if it WASN'T there I would call THAT unusual.

Joe

Thanks Joe for your input. What are your opinions about the condition of the bag? It appears in the photo to be very clear and therefore modern, and I am wondering who raised the issue with the seller that the kit was rebagged? Was it just a canard to get the seller to accept less money or to mislead other bidders in the hopes that the price wouldn't climb?

Just speculation...

OH there is only K-Kit from the early 60's that I need and want and that is the Astron Invader. If you or anyone knows of it being bagged and in mint condition, send me a PM and we can talk price

Thanks in advance!

Jonathan

Just depends on how the kit was stored and treated over the years. Sometimes you see a kit that has been just ignored in a box in a closet for 40 years..................away from heat and sunlight they can emerge virtually pristine, like the day they were bagged. Over the years I have seen the whole range..................from really crappy to near-perfect.

Incidentally, the same seller has a Sprite kit up right now from the same era. Also plenty of plastic above the seal and, in my opinion (without having the kit in my hands to examine closely), it looks entirely authentic.

I don't know who informed this young guy that his Scout was rebagged................when I saw his note in the Scout auction apologizing for not having been aware of this 'fact', I sent him a message saying that it looked perfectly original to me. If someone was looking to 'steal it', it sure didn't work. By the way, this seller is the grandson of a former member here at YORF (and a first class guy) who passed away a year or so ago. IMHO there's no way that either he or the grandson would have rebagged the kit................anyway, as stated before, it didn't appear (from the auction photos) to have been rebagged.

Joe

Thanks Joe! Then from what you say, $200 isn't such a bad price for this kit.

People all accross America RUTEINLY drink/urinate $200+ every weekend when they go bar hoping. So $200 spent on an old kit from the nacency of our hobby is more than reasonable!

Let me see what a carton of cigs go for:

from http://www.cigoutlet.net/cigarettes...cigarettes.html

a carton of Marlboro's go for $20.50.

I searched different sites to try and determine how many packs/cartons a person smokes in a week, or packs per day. It varied too much for me to make a conclusion.

But I can that after smoking 10 cartons, you have just burned up the money you could have used to buy that early Astron Scout.

And just think of the damage you are doing to both your wallet and your health. Not trying to be the 'smoking police', just thinking out loud. You want to smoke have at it!

Jonathan

I'm not sure that I would pay $200 for that kit, but I am a firm believer than an item is worth what an open market will pay for it. So, right now, the kit is worth 200 bucks.

I'll tell you for sure, I would rather have the kit than smoke 10 cartons of cigarettes, particularly in view of the fact that I am a reformed smoker (haven't had a single puff in 36 years).

The item was purchased by a sniper who really wanted it badly. They had no activity prior to the winning bid, which was probably a program buy.

As for the bagging - pure polythene over time will become brittle to the point of cracking. The majority of the color change or reduced transparency can be attributed to simple mechanical action of parts in the bag scratching the poly. If it has been sitting in a box you would still get the brittle, and as the material dried out the micro scratches will open op and start to refract light. Also the other two models for auction which are from a similar timeframe share the single seam bag. This model was packed in a double pleat bag with expansion sides.

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Bingo... its been re-bagged. Not a single one of my 'K-Kits' has the double pleats. See this is why we have to debate and bounce ideas off of one another

Thank you J

Jonathan

Jonathan, virtually all early Estes kits (up to roughly sometime in 1968) were packaged in clear pleated bags (also referred to as a side-gusseted bag), sealed top and bottom. Most of Estes' early sales were by direct mail order to the customer. Sometime in 1968 Estes went to a non-gusseted bag with the yellow pre-Damon hangtag*. This allowed for pegboard display as Estes was actively working to expand sales through hobby shops. Estes packaging evolved through several other steps over the years.................for example, sometime in the 70's Estes went to a side-seal bag (no bottom seal), and I have seen examples of both side-seal and bottom seal bags through the Skill Level Series kits which started around 1973.

So again, there is no reason for me to believe that the Scout kit was rebagged.

Now, as for your early K-kits..................you may have noticed the asterisk in the above explanation. There was a short interim after Estes went to the non-gusseted, bottom sealed bag (with the yellow pre-Damon hangtag) when they released kits with no hangtag. This was certainly a brief period, and may have occurred because everything was set to go with the new system but the new hangtags were late arriving. It's also possible that, periodically for a year or two, Estes could have released such kits during brief periods when they had run out of hangtags.

I have seen such kits from time to time. I once had a Camroc from about 1970 that had been packaged this way (top seal, bottom seal, non-gusseted bag). One thing I am quite sure of................kits with this type of packaging occur in relatively smaller numbers than those with pre-Damon hangtags. Your assertion that all of your pre-Damon kits are no hangtag non-gusseted leaves me in a bit of a quagmire. So I have to ask...............are you sure? Are you going from memory? Is it possible you didn't notice the side gussets on some of your kits? Are your kits accessible enough that you can check them? If it's true that all of your early kits have neither hangtags nor gussets, then I have to try to come up with an explanation (or modify my observations above).

If you could weigh in here with any further info it would be much appreciated. That goes for everyone else who has a collection of early Estes kits.

Joe

There are some early bagged examples in a collection at the Smithsonian, donated by G. Harry Stine.

http://www.nasm.si.edu/collections/...showrecords=all

The X-Ray kit I believe is an example of a pleated bag sealed top and bottom, although the pleating on this example is pushed out. The Astron Apogee II is sealed with staples.

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Tim,

Thank for the links!

Joe,

I guess they are double pleated, but mine are all pushed outward, not inward.

Nice to see that there is PROOF from a higher authority that Estes kits were indeed stapled on occasion.

Its kinda cool seeing stuff that one owns sitting in a museum Congrats all around!

Jonathan