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  #11  
Old 02-28-2011, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltvscout
Whoa! Check out the pic of the box full of old Enerjet kits!


To be honest, that photo in the listing was one of the prime reasons for my original post (see original post). Certainly, a 1340 listing is 'news', but that impressive pile of Enerjet kits in the box was the REAL highlight to me.

Earl

P.S.--I noticed a bit earlier that he has updated the listing to say that the fin unit and nosecone color were in fact NOT pink as they appear in his photos and that he would be posting some better photos tonight.

Jerry, did this kit come packaged originally with a motor included? That seemed a bit odd to me, but was not really sure what the norm was for this kit.

Earl
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  #12  
Old 02-28-2011, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Jerry, did this kit come packaged originally with a motor included? That seemed a bit odd to me, but was not really sure what the norm was for this kit.

Earl

Not the ones I saw. They were in plastic bags as were the final production Enerjet kits. Original kits came in nice display boxes. As did later motors. I don't see many photos of Enerjet motor boxes, but we should.

The Enerjet 1340 had a thicker wall tube and associated molded nose cone. That's the first thing I would check for.

The other kits look about right. Again later months of production after the boxes were expended and the line was failing financially already. Too bad too, that not enough people "understood" how to use the product.

I really find an F52-5 in the package as odd.

Jerry
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  #13  
Old 02-28-2011, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Irvine

I really find an F52-5 in the package as odd.

Jerry


Even with a fairly heavy payload in it's small 8" payload section it would still be zipping along at a pretty good clip when that short five seconds was up .....

Looks like the motor mount tube included with this 1340 kit is a black or dark brown phenolic sleeve? I would have thought that part would have been regular tubing like the airframe.

.
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2011, 09:40 AM
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The lister did post additional photos and made an additional statement about the authenticity of the kit. The photos are a bit more revealing, but it is still somewhat hard to make out everything in the bag.

Steve, I'm kinda like you....I don't quite get the black tube in the bag. In the additional photos added last night, it appears this is the payload tube, but I have never seen these tubes come with a black outside finish. Generally, they were the brown or white glassine finish.

Again, I'll defer to Jerry to add any additional insight on tube colors, in particular for the heavier walled tubes that came with these kits.

I'm also trying to determine the exact nature of the payload tube plastic connector. I have an original copy of the 1340 product sheet ( just like the one in this kit bag) and it indicates the exposed length of tha payload connector to be only one tenth of an inch. I've never seen even a photo of one of those connectors, but it is really hard to make out any real details of the connector in this kit bag.

Earl
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2011, 11:09 AM
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He has 2 paks of B4-3M and C5-3S motors up for auction too.
I'm actually full up of C5-3's, but the B4-3M 13mm motors are interesting.
A B4-0M or B4-6M would be more useful.
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  #16  
Old 03-01-2011, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
I have never seen these tubes come with a black outside finish. Generally, they were the brown or white glassine finish.

Again, I'll defer to Jerry to add any additional insight on tube colors, in particular for the heavier walled tubes that came with these kits.

I'm also trying to determine the exact nature of the payload tube plastic connector. I have an original copy of the 1340 product sheet ( just like the one in this kit bag) and it indicates the exposed length of tha payload connector to be only one tenth of an inch. I've never seen even a photo of one of those connectors, but it is really hard to make out any real details of the connector in this kit bag.

Earl
The first kit to use the plastic fin unit, plastic nose cone and plastic tube coupler was the Phoenix Bird. The fins were blue. The tubes were white and it had a silver stick on decal.

About the same time Enerjet (also Centuri) made the 1340 which used Mini-Max tube (also Centuri) 1.25 x 1.34 x 12" brown with glassine for the 1340 airframe and a red molded Phoenix Bird fin unit. The motor cost more than the rocket.

The nose cone and coupler mold were different for Phoenix Bird and 1340. The tube thicknesses were very different, 1.30 x 1.34 x 12" for Centuri (now Estes BT-56).

The coupler on the 1340 had a short section the diameter of the tube OD about 1/10" long (recall it being a bit more). The Phoenix Bird variant had about an inch long section with an access plate image in the mold for added value. Technical sounding customers didn't care about that. They wanted strength and performance.

The fin unit's "marginal power" turned out to be a BATES 29mm 160G80 motor. Sometimes it would shred, sometimes not.

The 1340 parts were all molded in red.

I have not personally seen an Enerjet motor packaged in a bag with a kit but was never an official sounding rocket customer either. I posted a letter in CRm I received from Enerjet when I tried to become one. It's on the CRm website.

I hope this helps. I am not discouraging anyone from bidding because complete or not the instructions, plastic parts, and correct parts are themselves worth it for a rare find. Correct mating parts could be made if needed.

I have asked Estes about remolding the 1340 parts but bad to no noises followed. They seem to have an inventory control problem on old molds. At least they are nowhere near as bad as Wal-Mart!

Jerry

I don't recall, but the 12" lengths might be 9" or something.
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  #17  
Old 03-01-2011, 07:03 PM
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The Centuri Argus kit, intro'd in the 1973 catalog (which came out in latter '72) came with the red fin can. But it did not use either the 'consumer' plastic connector or the Enerjet plastic connector. It preceded the Phoenix Bird, best I recall.

So Jerry, I guess then you are saying because of the thicker tubes used in the 1340 kit, the plastic cone and coupler in the 1340 kit were NOT the same as used in the consumer kits? I knew the plastic coupler exposed section was different between the two versions, but I didn't realize the cones were different too. I guess they would have to be due to the thicker tube walls.

Looks like bids are climbing. There was a sealed, boxed F67 on eBay a couple weeks ago that reached $200+ before ebay pulled the listing....on the last day before bidding was due to end. Motor package appeared pristine from the photos. Don't know whose listing it was.

Earl
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  #18  
Old 03-02-2011, 09:19 AM
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I'm drooling over that box of Enerjet kits and would be interested in the Athena, Egg Crate, and Aero Dart if priced right.
Especially that Athena; not sure I have seen this one bagged but have held a boxed one personally MANY years ago.
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  #19  
Old 03-02-2011, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
The Centuri Argus kit, intro'd in the 1973 catalog (which came out in latter '72) came with the red fin can. But it did not use either the 'consumer' plastic connector or the Enerjet plastic connector. It preceded the Phoenix Bird, best I recall.

So Jerry, I guess then you are saying because of the thicker tubes used in the 1340 kit, the plastic cone and coupler in the 1340 kit were NOT the same as used in the consumer kits? I knew the plastic coupler exposed section was different between the two versions, but I didn't realize the cones were different too. I guess they would have to be due to the thicker tube walls.
The Phoenix Bird was the first to use both the plastic fin unit and the plastic nose cone and coupler combo mold. The Centuri Argus fins are the likely source of EJ 1340 fins.

The mold on the 1340 had about the same nose cone shape but the nose base and coupler bases were smaller OD to fit the Minimax tube. The mold details were different too. The seat between the two coupler shoulders was smooth and short on EJ and visually detailed and longer on Centuri. The plastic was thicker on EJ as well. You can control the shot mass on a blow molded part. On model rockets the trick is to be as light as possible without voids.

Jerry
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The O administration believed in tax, spend, borrow, fine, mandate, monologue. D voters will soon be very happy with the election outcome!
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  #20  
Old 03-02-2011, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Irvine
The Phoenix Bird was the first to use both the plastic fin unit and the plastic nose cone and coupler combo mold. The Centuri Argus fins are the likely source of EJ 1340 fins.

The mold on the 1340 had about the same nose cone shape but the nose base and coupler bases were smaller OD to fit the Minimax tube. The mold details were different too. The seat between the two coupler shoulders was smooth and short on EJ and visually detailed and longer on Centuri. The plastic was thicker on EJ as well. You can control the shot mass on a blow molded part. On model rockets the trick is to be as light as possible without voids.

Jerry


Jerry,

I think you pretty much called it in post 4 ..... this is an SPEV of sorts. The originals as you stated all had red for the plastic parts. In the eBay listing the seller states these parts are orange and his model was purchased in 1974. I guess towards the end of the run for EnerJet they used some of the "Centuri Orange" fin cans that were later offered in the Centuri Rocket Times sold as parts along with other items like the original black egg capsule parts. The nose cone/coupler listed here is obviously for the Phoenix Bird based on the line drawing and wasn't the 1340 part made for the thicker tubing you noted.

http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...76WcenRT10.html

Also what I originally thought was possibly the motor tube looks to be the payload tube and it appears to be black? The published literature suggests the 1340 model didn't require paint because it featured "heavy-wall pre-colored spiral wound cardboard and glassine tubing".

Did any of your originals feature a black payload tube or was it white like the main airframe? Centuri through the Rocket Times certainly was eliminating at least some of the EnerJet parts around this time and I wish I would have at least bought a couple of those original black egg capsules for Egg Crate clones.

By what's posted in the listing this by all means appears to be an original 1340 but it is somewhat odd based on the parts selection that was included in this 1974 version. I also didn't realize the actual kit number "1340" appeared on a decal sheet with the EnerJet logos.

It's already climbed out of my price range for bidding but if I had bought it I would open it, inhale the EnerJet air from the bag ..... build it and then fly it on composite F and G motors at our HPR field. I would also document all the contents for Scott to post online for all to enjoy.

.
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