Estes Tercel boost-glider kit

[blackshire]

Hello All,

Has anyone here been able to procure and try out an example (perhaps a promotional one) of Estes' new Tercel mini motor-powered boost-glider kit (see: http://www.estesrockets.com/rockets/kits/skill-3/003222-tercel )? [No, Estes is not stealing the names of Toyota automobiles; a Tercel is a male Falcon or Hawk. :-) ] Also:

The Tercel has an elliptical planform wing (actually, "bi-elliptical"--the trailing edge is a portion of a larger, more gently-curving ellipse than that of the leading edge) with polyhedral. The glider's overall appearance is similar to that of AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics) competition HLGs (Hand-Launched Gliders, see: http://www.amaglider.schnable.net/index.html ). Its motor pod utilizes the heretofore little-used, short BT-5 ogive plastic nose cone from the 220 Swift kit and the Customizer Mini Launch Set. Interestingly, the motor pod uses a 6" parachute instead of a streamer for recovery.

[Scott6060842]

Not yet, I am waiting for one to show up at the local HL. I like the fact that it uses T motors.

[BEC]

Yes! Mine arrived in an order from Hobbylinc a couple of days ago. I expect ot be opening it and getting started in the next day or two.

[kevinj]

I picked one up at my local hobby shop last week.

Make sure you get the template for the sanding of the wing, attached. The insert was missed in kit packaging.

kj

[blackshire]

I picked one up at my local hobby shop last week.

Make sure you get the template for the sanding of the wing, attached. The insert was missed in kit packaging.

kjAh--*that's* why that template is included on the Tercel's page on the Estes web site.

[blackshire]

Yes! Mine arrived in an order from Hobbylinc a couple of days ago. I expect ot be opening it and getting started in the next day or two.So it *is* available now--very good! I hope Solomoriah will try one--he has had bad luck with boost-gliders, but this kit with its laser-cut parts and wing-sanding template should work for him.

[BEC]

Well..... this past weekend I won the A boost glider event at the Tri-Cities Rocketeers contest with my Tercel....thanks to a good design that just works and a really really lucky shot into a small thermal. That yielded a time of 284 seconds. On my first flight, no thermal help, I got 59 seconds.

So.....even though I was initially a bit disappointed in the grade of balsa in the kit (heavy) I have to say I'm happy with it.

[blackshire]

Well..... this past weekend I won the A boost glider event at the Tri-Cities Rocketeers contest with my Tercel....thanks to a good design that just works and a really really lucky shot into a small thermal. That yielded a time of 284 seconds. On my first flight, no thermal help, I got 59 seconds.

So.....even though I was initially a bit disappointed in the grade of balsa in the kit (heavy) I have to say I'm happy with it.Congratulations! "Never look a built glider in the wing," I guess... :-)

[Solomoriah]

So it *is* available now--very good! I hope Solomoriah will try one--he has had bad luck with boost-gliders, but this kit with its laser-cut parts and wing-sanding template should work for him.
Hah. As if that would help. :D

Incidentally, I have built, but not yet flown, the Q-EZ glider you sent me. I love the shock cord mount you provided, though I'll admit for anything larger than BT-20 I'll still be using Kevlar to the engine mount (or baffle). I also have a pair of Mini-Dactyls I plan to try out this year. With any luck, at the end of the season I'll still have one of the three...

[Cohetero-negro]

Hello All,

Has anyone here been able to procure and try out an example (perhaps a promotional one) of Estes' new Tercel mini motor-powered boost-glider kit (see: http://www.estesrockets.com/rockets/kits/skill-3/003222-tercel )? [No, Estes is not stealing the names of Toyota automobiles; a Tercel is a male Falcon or Hawk. :-) ] Also:

The Tercel has an elliptical planform wing (actually, "bi-elliptical"--the trailing edge is a portion of a larger, more gently-curving ellipse than that of the leading edge) with polyhedral. The glider's overall appearance is similar to that of AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics) competition HLGs (Hand-Launched Gliders, see: http://www.amaglider.schnable.net/index.html ). Its motor pod utilizes the heretofore little-used, short BT-5 ogive plastic nose cone from the 220 Swift kit and the Customizer Mini Launch Set. Interestingly, the motor pod uses a 6" parachute instead of a streamer for recovery.

Hey Shire,

From personal flying, its one of Estes's best glider kits to date!

Easy to assemble, the price is very reasonable, and its fun to fly ... who cares if you lose it, just get another for the cost.

Estes has really been making some nice kits of late. I was pleasantly surprised to see a new medium sized kit hanging from a hobby shop peg board with a large BT-55/60 sized BALSA nose cone visible in the packaging ... takes me back to the says of A-20 Demons, original Cherokee-D's, and Goblins ... sand 'n sealer ... oh the smell and lung burn sensation of that stuff! :)

Jonathan

[Cohetero-negro]

Tercel combo - http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0161p?&I=LZ2391 <-- high in price

Tercel in bulk - http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?I=LXBVAJ&P=8 <--- not really worth it...

My recommended shop, Hobby Linc : http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/est/est3222.htm <--- Just $10.99 here!

Jonathan

[JumpJet]

So.....even though I was initially a bit disappointed in the grade of balsa in the kit (heavy) I have to say I'm happy with it.



Every Tercel I have made with an airfoil sanded into the wing typically gets around 60 seconds in normal air. I've made all of them with this heavy wood. If your going to compete you could always use the kit contents to trace another set of parts made out of contest balsa.

Did you use the included Wire clip supports that came with the kit?

Also, the way the fuselage is built I've never had one break yet even if the model cart wheels on landing.

I am very pleased to hear you won a contest with this model.



John Boren

[BEC]

Every Tercel I have made with an airfoil sanded into the wing typically gets around 60 seconds in normal air. I've made all of them with this heavy wood. If your going to compete you could always use the kit contents to trace another set of parts made out of contest balsa.

Did you use the included Wire clip supports that came with the kit?

Also, the way the fuselage is built I've never had one break yet even if the model cart wheels on landing.

I am very pleased to hear you won a contest with this model.



John Boren

John,

Glad you saw this. Thanks for a great design. Even though I'm a longtime airplane modeller, I haven't built a free flight HLG in decades, and of course the Tercel's glider clearly has HLG heritage. And this was my first attempt at a boost glider (never did one in my first rocketry period 30-odd years ago).

Yes, I used the clip support, as did the two other contestants who also flew Tercels in the meet. Very handy.

One of the others flew away in a thermal.....I think we lost sight of the glider at about three minutes. Since it was her first flight her overall score was lower as she didn't have a second one to substitute.

I got a second kit and noted that it had a similar grade of wood, so I figured that it was by intent. It certainly makes for a strong model.

That Tyvek-layer-in-the middle fuselage is very strong! I was kind of amused that the instructions call it "paper".

[JumpJet]

Wow, three Tercel's at one launch. I've not hooked any of those boomer thermals you saw that day with my Tercel's which isn't a bad thing, since they land far enough away in no lift conditions. Estes standard balsa wood specificaiton is on the heavy side which is great for fins but not so great for glider models.

If you still have yours, can you post of couple photos of it!


John Boren

[BEC]

I still have mine....yes, I need to post a picture or two. It might not be tonight, though.

[Cohetero-negro]

The dense wood is great as it allows a very defined and thin airfoil in the end. So much so, that while I was sanding, I would hold the wings up to the light and use the amount of light shinning through to help me gauge high spots in the airfoil.

Hey for $11 ... you really can't go wrong.

J

P.s. I think we can all agree the Tercel is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Estes Eagle ... now what a piece of crap that design was!

[blackshire]

Hah. As if that would help. :D

Incidentally, I have built, but not yet flown, the Q-EZ glider you sent me. I love the shock cord mount you provided, though I'll admit for anything larger than BT-20 I'll still be using Kevlar to the engine mount (or baffle). I also have a pair of Mini-Dactyls I plan to try out this year. With any luck, at the end of the season I'll still have one of the three...Thank you. Give this (see: www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter231.pdf [page 6]) a try for anchoring Kevlar shock cords to motor mounts. I'll be curious to hear how the Q-EZ and Mini-Dactyls fly (if they glide okay in hand-toss trimming flights, those low aspect ratio gliders should work fine in powered flights). Your "Charlie Brown kite-like streak" with boost-gliders *has* to be broken at some point. Also:

The original, larger version of the Mini-Dactyl (I think it was called the Pterodactyl) used an 18 mm motor booster and was known to have good wind penetration characteristics. At my age, though, I appreciate the (usually) shorter walks that 13 mm mini motor powered boost-gliders provide. :-)

[blackshire]

Tercel combo - http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0161p?&I=LZ2391 <-- high in price

Tercel in bulk - http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?I=LXBVAJ&P=8 <--- not really worth it...

My recommended shop, Hobby Linc : http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/est/est3222.htm <--- Just $10.99 here!

JonathanThank you. Alas, Hobby Linc doesn't ship to Alaska, but eHobbies www.ehobbies.com (who offer the Tercel for $11.99) does. AC Supply www.acsupply.com also carries the Tercel, for $10.19.

[blackshire]

Wow, three Tercel's at one launch. I've not hooked any of those boomer thermals you saw that day with my Tercel's which isn't a bad thing, since they land far enough away in no lift conditions. Estes standard balsa wood specificaiton is on the heavy side which is great for fins but not so great for glider models.

If you still have yours, can you post of couple photos of it!


John BorenHeartily seconded! (Regarding the pictures.) Also: John, I have an idea for something that you could put on the Estes web site that would increase interest in the Tercel kit and attract model airplane folks to try it. Since it is similar to AMA-type contest hand-launch gliders, if you put a downloadable set of AMA-derived hand-launch glider contest rules (see: http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/ff_ou_hlgliders_rules_print.htm ) and a downloadable box score sheet on the Estes web site, builders of the Tercel kits could utilize these ready-to-use contest materials to hold their own boost-glider duration contests. The only rule that would need to be changed is the "no dropped parts" rule, which could be amended to exempt separable motor pods. In addition:John,

Glad you saw this. Thanks for a great design. Even though I'm a longtime airplane modeller, I haven't built a free flight HLG in decades, and of course the Tercel's glider clearly has HLG heritage. And this was my first attempt at a boost glider (never did one in my first rocketry period 30-odd years ago).

Yes, I used the clip support, as did the two other contestants who also flew Tercels in the meet. Very handy.

One of the others flew away in a thermal.....I think we lost sight of the glider at about three minutes. Since it was her first flight her overall score was lower as she didn't have a second one to substitute.

I got a second kit and noted that it had a similar grade of wood, so I figured that it was by intent. It certainly makes for a strong model.

That Tyvek-layer-in-the middle fuselage is very strong! I was kind of amused that the instructions call it "paper".I'm just curious--what contest rules did your group use (NAR or AMA)?

[derekmc]

In addition:I'm just curious--what contest rules did your group use (NAR or AMA)?

We used the NAR rules. Which AMA rules are you referring to? Freeflight or RC? Those for Hand Launch Glider or Catapult glider?

Derek McGuckin
Tri-Cities Rocketeers

[BEC]

Still haven't gotten to the pictures....but I will.

We flew the NAR A boost glider event. The AMA rocket-powered glider events are for Jetex motors (and their equivalents), not for anything more energetic.

[derekmc]

Still haven't gotten to the pictures....but I will.

We flew the NAR A boost glider event. The AMA rocket-powered glider events are for Jetex motors (and their equivalents), not for anything more energetic.

In my 15+ years of competitive Free flight participation I've seen one Jetex flight. Very smoky and slow!

[blackshire]

We used the NAR rules. Which AMA rules are you referring to? Freeflight or RC? Those for Hand Launch Glider or Catapult glider?

Derek McGuckin
Tri-Cities RocketeersI was referring to the AMA contest rules for Hand Launch Gliders (see: http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/ff_ou_hlgliders_rules_print.htm ). Also, John Kaufmann's classic 1974 book "Flying Hand-Launched Gliders" (which is available from AbeBooks.com www.abebooks.com ) covers both the AMA and German contest rules for Hand Launch Gliders, both of which could be used for boost-glider contests in order to help attract model airplane folks to model rocketry. As he wrote in the book:

"The A.M.A. contest rules for hand-launched gliders allow a total of six flights, with each flight limited to a maximum, or max, of two minutes. From the six flights, the three longest flight times are added together to give the flier's score. If the flier should make three maxes, giving him a total of six minutes, he is then allowed to make fly-off flights of two minutes until he fails to get a max. Fly-off flights are used to break tie scores in case two or more fliers "max out" with three two-minute flights." [Also, regarding the German rules:]

"Another type of contest uses the German rules. This system calls for a total of the best six out of ten flights, with a one-minute max time. Three- or four-man teams fly together for a total team score. The German rules place greater emphasis on consistent performance. In addition, the one-minute max permits using smaller flying fields, a very important point in built-up areas where open land is hard to find." [In addition, regarding postal contests:]

"There are international contests for hand-launched gliders in which teams of fliers from all around the world compete. They are called postals because the teams fly at their local fields on any day during a given month and mail their scores to the club sponsoring the contest. The teams are then notified about the results. International postals use the German rules. Postals are also conducted by American clubs for individual fliers using the A.M.A. rules..." [Below is information on possibly obtaining re-prints of this book:]

Mr. Kaufmann's book "Flying Hand-Launched Gliders" was re-printed by the NFFS (National Free Flight Society, see: www.freeflight.org ) and (as late as 2009) was available from them for $13 plus $5 for postage (with payment by money order, cash, or bank draft with a US bank). I don't see it listed in the NFFS book section now, but they may offer it again in the future. The NFFS's postal address is:


NFFS Publications Services
%Bob Stalick
PO Box 1775
Albany, OR 97321

I hope this information will be helpful.

[derekmc]

Current Hand Launch gliders are mostly Tip launch designs that wouldn't work very well for rocket boost. Catapult Gliders are a natural crossover. I'm in the process of building a couple rocket boost versions.

The AMA FF Glider rules for flying, the use of a 2 minute max, or 90 seconds for catapult glider would be an entertaining way to run a Boost glider contest.

[mwtoelle]

NAR rules for BG and RG allow a multi-round option with a 120 second max for three rounds. FAI rules use a 180 second max for each round.

[JumpJet]

Still haven't gotten to the pictures....but I will.


So, did you have to go out and buy a new camera or something! Looking forward to a picture.


John Boren

:chuckle:

[BEC]

So, did you have to go out and buy a new camera or something! Looking forward to a picture.

John Boren

:chuckle:

No - but time, light and the Tercel together....yes.

Here she is laying on my shade canopy at Dayton, WA on Sunday.

And before anyone asks - that's just Rustoleum fluorescent paint lightly sprayed on right over bare wood or paper, except for the nose cone (which is plastic).

[blackshire]

No - but time, light and the Tercel together....yes.

Here she is laying on my shade canopy at Dayton, WA on Sunday.So you're into the "Jaclyn Klugman" thing (in reference to the Thoroughbred racehorse colt who was given a filly's name), since a Tercel is a male hawk or Falcon? :-)And before anyone asks - that's just Rustoleum fluorescent paint lightly sprayed on right over bare wood or paper, except for the nose cone (which is plastic).Yep, that's the way to paint a B/G or an RG...*just* enough paint to color its surfaces--a pretty bird!

[BEC]

... since a Tercel is a male hawk or Falcon?

Oooooops!

[JumpJet]

So has anyone else build and fly a Tercel Glider?


John Boren

[kevinj]

Mine keeps getting knocked down the priority list. I'm thinking I'll finally start on it after I get back from the WSMC.

kj

[Jester]

Mine is built and I'm going through the last phase of painting this week. Decided to stick with the black/white/red paint scheme on the packaging, but I reversed it on the bottom. So mine is black on bottom, red on top with a white stripe, to make it more visible in the air.

I do have a question, though. I was quite surprised that this kit includes a parachute. Given how thin and short the body tube is, I'm a bit concerned about that. Haven't tried stuffing wadding and shock cord and chute into that body yet, but I have real concerns that it will all fit. Is there any particular reason why a streamer wouldn't be a better choice?

Build quality of the kit is quite good and the instructions are pretty good. I was a bit curious why there's a separate step for determining the glider's COG when it looks like nothing is done with that information in later steps? Also, after sanding my main wing to an airfoil, there wasn't quite enough surface on the wing root edges to glue the two parts of the wing together such that it would firmly hold the wing angle in the instructions. Even allowing the glue to cure for some time with the template holding the wing at the correct angle, the wing desperately wanted to settle into a more horizontal shape after the template was removed.

We'll see how it goes when I fly it. :)

[JumpJet]

I was quite surprised that this kit includes a parachute.

That little 6" chute takes up very little room. When flying over a hard surface the balsa hook portion of the pod would sometimes get deformed when coming down on a streamer. I've not seen this problem since switching to the 6" chute.

there wasn't quite enough surface on the wing root edges

I've not had this issue on the Tercel wing or any small glilder wing I've made over the years. If I'm in a hurry I use CA to glue the wing panels together and then use Titebond blue over the joint top and bottom for added strength. If I am not in a Hurry, Titebond works great all by itself.


John Boren

[Jester]

That little 6" chute takes up very little room. When flying over a hard surface the balsa hook portion of the pod would sometimes get deformed when coming down on a streamer. I've not seen this problem since switching to the 6" chute.
Great to know, thanks!


I've not had this issue on the Tercel wing or any small glilder wing I've made over the years. If I'm in a hurry I use CA to glue the wing panels together and then use Titebond blue over the joint top and bottom for added strength.
Yeah, this is exactly what I did, except I used very little on the bottom because I knew I'd be sanding there. In retrospect, I probably should have gone ahead and used more on the bottom than I did. This was my first boost glider, so now I'll know for next time.

Painting's and finishing's all done and it came out looking very sharp. Again, very good quality of the parts in the kit. In particular, I was impressed to see the body tube doesn't have the deep grooves that are so prevalent on cheaper kits. On to flying!

[laminar]

I finished my Tercel this week and now I'm hoping for some good weather (this weekend looks bad....)

I really liked the Estes designed finish and went that route (added 1.5g to model, almost all of that to the pod). Total weight with recovery inside (and wadding) w/o motor is 22.4gr, 10.0g pod/12.4 glider w/decals. I added the eagle decal after the pics were taken, it is a really nicely designed decal.

The airfoil on the wing makes the trailing edge a little thin, so be careful there. The glider builds super strong with the "paper" laminate (is that the same stuff the old 5.25" floppy discs sleeves used??) - the laminate is also used on the glider hook on the pod.

As mentioned earlier, the wing is elliptical type in all dimensions (4 panel dihedral to get close to an elliptical dihedral). I had to add just under .5gr on the nose to get a good level glide from a hand toss.

[Scott6060842]

Nice!

I've given up hope that this kit will ever show up at the local Hobby Lobby....so I guess I am just going to have to get one from AC Supply or Amazon.

[JumpJet]

I thought this thread was dead. Glad to see someone finish one of these. If you dont have any A3-2T motors laying around the next best motor is the A10-3T. This model is built really strong so it won't blow apart, yet you can expect 60 second glides once it is trimmed.


John Boren

[blackshire]

I thought this thread was dead. Glad to see someone finish one of these. If you dont have any A3-2T motors laying around the next best motor is the A10-3T. This model is built really strong so it won't blow apart, yet you can expect 60 second glides once it is trimmed.Indeed--it looks like a good "foul-weather" boost-glider (as G. Harry Stine described in his "Handbook of Model Rocketry," a B/G with a higher wing loading and a low-drag, straight, high boost that gets it to a higher altitude [a "fair-weather" B/G is optimized for maximum lift/drag in calm conditions, trading a lower boost altitude for a high glide ratio in still air]). Also, thank you for giving the Tercel a "stock" decor scheme that is reminiscent of that of the classic Centuri Swift boost-glider.

[Fuzzmaster]

I was excited to find this thread as I was hoping to get some help with my Tercel. I've only flown it twice and both times were pretty bad. For some reason it doesn't fly straight once it leaves the lunch pad but rather zooms around erratically. Like it's not balanced or something? Not sure what I'm doing wrong.

I figured it was just a bad design, but apparently others have had better luck with it than I have. I was worried the connection between the booster and the glider might be too tight and that it might not release properly. So far it hasn't really got the chance. Both times I flew it, the flight path was so erratic it had landed by the time it burned through the delay.

It seems to fly fine when thrown by hand, although I haven't been able to test it from any great height or anything.

Any ideas???

Thanks.

[Scott6060842]

I just got mine from Amazon so I don't have any experience with this one yet. Maybe Jumpjet can give you some insight, I believe he designed this one.

I have the best glider results launching on calm days with the launch rod straight up. I also like Apogees launch rod springs to keep them off the deflector and clear of the controller wires.

[Chas Russell]

I do not have any experience with this kit, but I have been flying boost gliders since 1968. Make sure that with the motor in place, that it balances in front of the wing. The motor should be as far forward as practical. Sight along the pod and insure that it is aligned along the boom both vertically and horizontally. Is the wing flat along the boom?
A picture would help us figure out the problem. John Boren has a lot of experience with gliders and R/C, so the design should work.

Chas

[Fuzzmaster]

Here's some pics:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23823939@N06/

Maybe these will help.

I did some sanding last night to make the spot where it grabs the booster a little narrower and it's a much looser connection now. That's the only thing I can think of that might have been the problem.

[Scott6060842]

I see what the problem is ... It's bear nekkid ! :D

[Fuzzmaster]

Yeah, I'm hoping to do some painting this weekend!

[5x7]

The instructions call for some serious air foiling of the wing, it looks like you knocked off the corner on the back, nothing in the front so you have a ways to go. I suspect you are not getting enough lift off the wing on boost to keep it going where it is designed to go.

I opened mine and then set it aside until I can do all that sanding outside.

[Fuzzmaster]

"it looks like you knocked off the corner on the back, nothing in the front "

Not sure what you mean here....?

[Chas Russell]

First, instead of painting consider using markers. I use the wide tip markers with black on the bottom of the tail and wing and red on top. Less weight than using paint, but I am thinking in terms of a competition glider where weight is an evil thing (grin).
From the looks of the pictures, thanks, it looks like you have weight on the tail. Again, the model in launch configuration needs to balance in front of the wing, preferably a half inch or more. Putting weight on the tail means than in glide configuration your model is nose heavy. You could sand the bottom of the nose to round and streamline it as well as to remove some weight, and consequensly some tail weight.
I have, hopefully, attached a report on gliders. I was looking for Dr. Gregorek's Basic Boost Glider Report. May have to scan one of my copies.
The comment about "knocking off the corners" is about airfoiling the wing. Basically, you round the front of the top of the wing back until about 30 percent of the length and then taper it down to a thinner trailing edge. It provides a more efficient airfoil. On the other hand, G. Harry Stine's "Flat Cat" design, which Quest kitted years back, had a flat airfoil for ease of building for first timers.
Again, I do not have this kit so I have not seen the instructions.
Hope it all works out.

Chas

[Fuzzmaster]

So are you saying I might have too much weight in the tail?

I'll see if I can post the instructions.

[5x7]

"it looks like you knocked off the corner on the back, nothing in the front "

Not sure what you mean here....?

It is item 7 in the kit instructions- does your wing look like that?

[Fuzzmaster]

Well that's the shape I was TRYING for, yes. I don't think mine's as extreme as the one in the figure.

Would that cause the erratic flight during boost?

[laminar]

I recently flew my Tercel for the first time. Overall, it boosted and glided well. I think the glider was a bit nose heavy, it only flew about 20-30s and was moving pretty fast - although the flight attitude was mostly level.... Also, the paint bubbled around the pod motor mount. The hook appears OK - I recall the hooks bond to the pod tube being a bit soft when I picked it up. If I can get it trimmed for a better flight I will report the result. The flight pics are cropped video frames from my phone, sorry about the quality. Ignition by my trusted helper and oldest son Aaron.

[blackshire]

I recently flew my Tercel for the first time. Overall, it boosted and glided well. I think the glider was a bit nose heavy, it only flew about 20-30s and was moving pretty fast - although the flight attitude was mostly level.... Also, the paint bubbled around the pod motor mount. The hook appears OK - I recall the hooks bond to the pod tube being a bit soft when I picked it up. If I can get it trimmed for a better flight I will report the result. The flight pics are cropped video frames from my phone, sorry about the quality. Ignition by my trusted helper and oldest son Aaron.I love the lighting! Centuri sold a high-temperature paint for application to such areas on rockets (swept fins, boost-gliders, etc.) that are in close proximity to the motor exhaust plume; today there are even better (ceramic-based, for example) paints like those used on launch pad gantries, that might be available commercially.