Pershing 1a build

[sandman]

I made all of these nose cones for the Pershing 1a and nobody has built one. :(

So I did! ;)

I started out with my BT-80 sized Pershing 1a nose cone and cut the tube. The best estimate I could make was to scale it to 13.34" long. This will give me a finished model 25.8" long.

A good size for a BT-80 flying on an Estes 24mm E.

Then I had to figure out the fins. Since these fins are really really tiny I decided to use a light balsa frame under cardstock.

[sandman]

Today I was stuck in my home office just answering call.

So I got it finished.

Man, THAT was easy!

Now I just have to paint it!

I have the decals from Excelcior and I think I'll go with the round shown.

I have the hollow in the nose filled with BB's and it gives me a little over 1.5 calipers of stability acording to rocsim.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

I made all of these nose cones for the Pershing 1a and nobody has built one. :(




I just started tonight. Scott and I might try to get out this weekend and I thought it would be an easy project to have flying by the weekend, even if it's NEKKID.

[sandman]

It only took me an afternoon to build. ;)

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

It only took me an afternoon to build. ;)

That's what I'm counting on. I gathered parts for the BT-60 version tonight. :cool:

[sandman]

All painted.

The picture next to the model is of a White Sands test round.

I wanted something that would use the decals that Excelcior made but was more than just all olive drab.

I don't know what you guys are waiting for. That was so easy to do.

No masking! :D The color changes from olive drap to white right at the nose cone joint.

The hardest part is waiting for the paint to dry.

Oh, BTW... :) I finished my SEMROC Point too. :o

[sandman]

I got started on the decals last night...there are a LOT more than I though.

I had to print out four pages of the Estes Maxi Pershing plans to find out where they all go.

http://www.dars.org/jimz/est1268.htm

I made a holder for the main body out of some scrap foam parts and a wood dowel.


Later that evening... ;)

Whew!...that was a lot of decals!

Way to go Phred at Excelcior. That was a nice set of decals! :)

He has 'em scaled just right for the BT-60, BT-70, BT-80, BT-100 (for TLP kit) and BT-101.

http://www.excelsiorrocketry.com/

Just click on the Roachwerks Pershing 1a link at the top.

I just hope it flies OK. There is a LOT of nose weight to bring the CG between the "S" and the "A" in US ARMY.

Now it just needs some Dullcoat...but not much! It will yellow!

[snaquin]

I got started on the decals last night...there are a LOT more than I though.

I had to print out four pages of the Estes Maxi Pershing plans to find out where they all go.

http://www.dars.org/jimz/est1268.htm

I made a holder for the main body out of some scrap foam parts and a wood dowel.


Later that evening... ;)

Whew!...that was a lot of decals!

Way to go Phred at Excelcior. That was a nice set of decals! :)

He has 'em scaled just right for the BT-60, BT-70, BT-80, BT-100 (for TLP kit) and BT-101.

http://www.excelsiorrocketry.com/

Just click on the Roachwerks Pershing 1a link at the top.

I just hope it flies OK. There is a LOT of nose weight to bring the CG between the "S" and the "A" in US ARMY.

Now it just needs some Dullcoat...but not much! It will yellow!

Nice work, Sandman. It looks great!

Just curious but what do you figure the final weight came out to?

[sandman]

Nice work, Sandman. It looks great!

Just curious but what do you figure the final weight came out to?

Well I don't have a scale but it weighs about half what my Estes BT-80 sized V-2 weighs. I'd gues about 4 or 5 oz.

It'll take amother 3 or 4 oz. in the nose cone to make it stable so i'd say a total of 8 oz. (still a guess).

A D12 should work.

I did a "rough" rocsim.

[sandman]

Well, I was busy today.

Here's the little brother.

A BT-60 sized version about 16.5" long overall.

Cute, huh? :rolleyes:

[Kadet]

I've read that you have different sizes of the Pershing 1A nose cones. I do I purchase them from you. I want to clone the original maxi brute size and and smaller scale one. Thanks.

[sandman]

I can pretty much make any size you want.

I make these cones to fit a BT-60, BT-80, BT-100 and a BT-101 (that's the big Estes size).

The BT-101 cone if HUGE and is 4" in diameter. It sells for $55.00 plus $5 shipping.

I don't currently have one already made up but I could make it tomorrow (Saturday).

Email me at gagnello@yahoo.com if you're interested.

[Kadet]

Thanks for the Pershing nose cone info. Don't make one up yet. I'm just starting BAR. The Maxi clone Pershing is a "down the road" project, but I am interested in the smaller scale cones. I've sent an e-mail requesting a price list. Thanks again.

[sandman]

I flew my BT-60 and BT-80 Pershings this past weekend.

The BT-60 version is a real nice size for a C6-3 but DO NOT FOTGET THE NOSE WEIGHT!!!

The BT-80 version flys sweeeeet on a D12-3. I'll bet an E9-4 would work great too and at 27" is not real overpowering in size. I can't wait to try it out on an E30-4! ;)

I also provide fin patterns for the BT-60 and BT-80 sizes 'cause...well, I already have them made up. I just gotta hit print! They are really easy to build to. The only hard part is that you have to make two sets of fins.

The BT-100 version TLP kit size and the BT-101 Maxi size really really needs a "G" motor. I wouldn't even think about using a "D" motor on one of those monsters.

That would even look silly! :cool:

[sandman]

I was playing with the pictures.

This is my BT-80 size flying on a D12-3.

BTW mine's the one in the middle. :rolleyes:

The other two are real ones...I didn't build those. :p

[Kadet]

Sandman, thanks again for the info. I'm too looking at doing the BT60&80 versions ( I only want to go up to D powered birds, ie. most of the old Estes kits). I'll contact you for the nose cones and fin layouts when I'm ready for those projects.

[sandman]

I was playing with some pieces of balsa and some designs so I came up with this.

They are pretty rare and I've only found a few pics on the web of the Pershing II.

This is what I came up with. The Pershing II nose cone is in the middle with a Pershing 1a cone on either side.

The PDF shows a comparison of what I believe to be an operational two stage Pershing II with a Pershing 1a booster.

[Chris_Timm]

The PDF shows a comparison of what I believe to be an operational two stage Pershing II with a Pershing 1a booster.

Whats with the transition overhanging the top of the 2nd stage?
Did you see this in a picture or is your imagination (eyesight) wandering? :confused:

[sandman]

It appears to overhang on the prototype.

This was an experimental attempt.

If you have better information please share it.

[Chris_Timm]

If you have better information please share it.

The overhang you think you see is actually a retaining band with explosive bolts that are protected from the airflow by protuberances below each guidance & control section fin.

[foose4string]

I see you made it happen Sandman....you got my Pershing II ! :D What size is that for? and how much? BTW, I got some nice detail photos of a PII from the Air and Space museum in VA, compliments of Tim Wilson. :)

[sandman]

The Pershing II cone fits a BT-80. I haven't figured a price yet. It's longer than the Pershing 1a but it's actually less wood and I don't think it would need much nose weight.

I have to go with $30 for the Pershing II plus $5 shipping. Patterns and drawings included.

The extension would have to be sanded down to represent the pyro bolt band so that's why it extends. The deflector plates can be made from cardstock and would mount right under each upper fin.

The bottom fins are not quite right yet but I'll work on them later tonight.

BTW I'll take any and all detail shots you guys can find.

[foose4string]

Here is a good one of the transition, not as much overhang as you might think. Mostly just were the O ring bolts together. You can see on the root edge of the lower fins, the cut- in is squared, and not angled like your drawing currently shows.

[foose4string]

Ah, you beat me to the reply, I see you have a reason for the overhang then. And you already knew about the fins. I got plenty more pics, give me a sec. This info might come with a price! :D j/k :D

[sandman]

Ah, you beat me to the reply, I see you have a reason for the overhang then. And you already knew about the fins. I got plenty more pics, give me a sec. This info might come with a price! :D j/k :D

I'll do some scale drawings to fit a BT-80 and post them here as a pdf.

How's that for payment? :D

Also if you make the main body out of a T-80H body tube from either Totally tubular or Balsa Machining there would hardly be any overhand left.

[foose4string]

PDF shmee dee ef.... :D I need some stinkin' Balsa! :D Here ya go ;)

[sandman]

OK that looks great!

Do you have anything better on the bottom fins? :o

[foose4string]

That's all I have of the lower fins, I thought the first one I posted showed quite a bit? :confused: Here is a close up of the upper fins and surrounding details..

[sandman]

I think that will do it.

How do these look?

[foose4string]

By George I think he's got it! That looks sweet Sandman. :) I think an 18mm version would be fun, but darn if a BT80, 1/15(16?)th ain't tempting! :)

[sandman]

These are a BT-60 sizes. They should be able to take an 18mm motor quite nicely.

I posted two. One is the Pershing II and the other is the Pershing II with the Pershing 1a booster.

These are full scale but I had to "break them up" so I could fit them on an 8.5 x 14 sheet.

[Chris_Timm]

[QUOTE=foose4string] I got plenty more pics, give me a sec. QUOTE]

Send him a pic of the profile of the reentry cone.
The pdf drawing is not quite right.

[foose4string]

Not sure I follow what you mean about the reentry cone...you mean the very top? I think what he's got is darn close. I happen to think the cone is perhaps a tad shorter, but without seeing it in person I can't really dispute what he's got either. Hopefully Tim Wilson will see this and give his opinion also, since he's the one that took the photos. I'll be going down in another month to see it for myself. I am originally from that part of VA and make regular trips down to play gigs, but ironically have never stopped into the museum.

Here's the only other photo I've got of the cone, and it's probably the best view he's got of it, I missed it earlier. I included another photo of the midsection opposite the conduit, but there's not much detail worth noting IMO. Then, the plaque that sits by the display. According to the plaque drawing, there is much more going on with the cone than what Sandman has drawn, but it's so subtle judging from the photos, that I doubt anyone would notice. Sounds like you've actually seen it, or one like it. Is the plaque drawing a fair representation or just more detail than it's worth? I know that's a silly thing to say in front of Sandman, but I wouldn't be looking to win any contests or show it to Peter Alway or anything! :D

[sandman]

I know that's a silly thing to say in front of Sandman, but I wouldn't be looking to win any contests or show it to Peter Alway or anything! :D

Oh, I'm cool with it. In fact I hope to show it to Peter and get his feedback on it. The copy of the nose cone I made has a seperate nose tip so it wouldn't be difficult to change. Just another piece of balsa to me. :rolleyes:

As for a contest model well, the model only needs to be as good as the documentation.

I posted it here just to see if anyone has better info on it.

This is an "experiment".

[foose4string]

Here is the same photo of the cone in higher resolution

[sandman]

I think I got it right. Please, correct me if you guys see that I did something that was a bit "off".

It looks right to me except for the tip. It should be rounded not pointed but...it's balsa, that should be easy enough to fix.

The base of my prototype cone is 2.66" in diameter. 0.06" oversized to allow you to "carve" the pyro bolt details but I may change that.

[wilsotr]

Not sure I follow what you mean about the reentry cone...you mean the very top? I think what he's got is darn close. I happen to think the cone is perhaps a tad shorter, but without seeing it in person I can't really dispute what he's got either. Hopefully Tim Wilson will see this and give his opinion also, since he's the one that took the photos.

Sandman's drawing is very, very close ... the tip of the cone is slightly rounded, as is the shoulder (final angle forming the taper). Without crawling up there with a tape measure, I can't argue with the dimensions ... again, Sandman's sketch looks to be just about right, to me.

[sandman]

Thanks guys.

This has been a lesson in S.W.A.G since I've never seen one.

The Pershing 1a was easy, I seen a bunch and the Nike Hercules...heck the one on display at the VFW hall not far from my house is unnatended. I was able to even climb up on the durn thing! :rolleyes:

I sure hope nobody saw me do that! :o

[foose4string]

This is the paint scheme/decals I was refering to in my PM.

[sandman]

LOL! I remember that issue!

Mr. Gorbechov, tear down this wall!"

I have a pic without the time graphics.

Actually that cover shot is about the best pic yet! It's the same pic I've posted here but Time uses much better resolution.

Look at the detail on that shot! :eek:

There is no lettering, just stripes. Orange and white.

[Chris_Timm]

Fyi

[foose4string]

That looks accurate Chris. Did you draw that? If not, where were did you find that?

Sandman, were you able to sim the PII? Just curious how it sims with a D12/E9 and a couple of the smaller AT 24mm reloads.

[sandman]

Here is the Roc Sim.

Don't know how "perfect" it is...I kinda rushed it. :rolleyes:

[foose4string]

Looks like a go. D12 gives a respectable altitude at 632, and an E9 @1150+, don't think I'll want to go any higher than that. Thanks.

[sandman]

Yea, 1,100' is pretty impressive.

My Pershing 1a does a respectable altitude and that's with a about a 4oz slug of lead in the nose!

[foose4string]

Something just occured to me...the SI AASM is less than 2 hrs from here. I know they have a Pershing II there, and plenty of other stuff that would probably inerest me. It's been 20+ years since I've been there and I think I'm due for a trip back. I think the photos from Hampton have told us most everything we need to know(they were excellent Tim!), but it would still be cool to see it in person.

[Chris_Timm]

Did you draw that? If not, where were did you find that?

No I did not draw the cone side view.
It is from a technical manual.
Better information usually requires one to visit the archives personally and not simply by using an internet search engine.
Most archival offices charge fees for various reproduction services.
As the saying goes "You get what you pay for".
I've paid quite a bit over the years.
Mostly missile-related.

[foose4string]

No I did not draw the cone side view.
It is from a technical manual.
Better information usually requires one to visit the archives personally and not simply by using an internet search engine.
Most archival offices charge fees for various reproduction services.
As the saying goes "You get what you pay for".
I've paid quite a bit over the years.
Mostly missile-related.

I'm satisfied with what information can be gathered from the net, photos, and visual recollections. :) "Close enough" is alright by me. Again, I'm not looking to enter any contests, make a museum display, or win any major awards. The missile just looked like a stable design that was begging to be turned into a flying model rocket. I was just going to scale it with the few full profile pics I had, maybe use some wraps for the cone, but it was obvious Sandman had an interest in this one too. With a few details added here and there, and the orange or orange & yellow trim, I think it would be a sharp looking, semi scale model. :) I've seen lots of P1A's, but hardly any P2's. Polecat makes one, but on a much larger mid/high powered scale. At any rate, I got Sandman to send me the prototype and the templates he came up with. We'll see if I can do anything with it. :o

[foose4string]

The Smithsonian trip was worth the ride today. :) Got some good close-up profile shots of the nose, close up of the hatch detail, and another of the booster fins. Most of the other pics are redundant, and I got more than a few. I may have to do some slight modifications to the top cone, but I think I can still work with the one Sandman sent me. :cool:

[timorley]

Links to Pershing II Manuals

http://www.stelmarski.com/pershingdocuments//manuals/TM%209-1425-386-10-1.pdf

http://www.stelmarski.com/pershingdocuments//manuals/FM%206-11.pdf

[timorley]

Page 116 of the PDF of the Pershing II Technical Manual (first link in my previous post) has some very useful missile data. It's section 5-1 Table 5-1.

I'll repeat it here:

First Stage
Length = 144.74 Inches
Max Diameter = 40 Inches

Second Stage
Length = 97.3 Inches
Max Diameter = 40 Inches

Guidance and Control/Adapter Section
Length = 61.51 Inches
Max Diameter = 40 Inches
Min Diameter = 27.75 Inches

Warhead Section
Length = 64.25 Inches
Max Diameter = 27.7 Inches
Min Diameter = 20 Inches

Radar Section
Length = 49.75 Inches
Max Diameter = 20 Inches
Min Diameter = 0 Inches

Missile
Length = 417.55 Inches
Max Diameter = 40 Inches
Min Diameter = 0 Inches

Unfortunitly it combines the Guidance and Contol (upper fins mount to this) measurements with the Adapter (first reduction in body diameter. But still a great source.