Inkjet Decals and Various "Solutions"

[Tau Zero]

While I know BelDecal (see link below) is the primary source for decal paper here in the U.S., I've also had friends here on the forum end up with some occasional bad batches :eek: of decal paper from Bel.

http://www.beldecal.com/inkjet-instructions.html


I think I'll wander down to the hobby shop, and ask my "regular guy" there about these Microscale products while I'm there:

http://www.bare-metal.com/decals/microscale_1.html


and maybe Testors Decal Bonder, too:

http://www.decalgear.com/DG/Product.asp?ProdCode=62102-1


Please chime in here with your impressions on any of these products.


Thanks, and cheers,

[CPMcGraw]

...Please chime in here with your impressions on any of these products...

I had better results with Papilio, using my Lexmark and Epson inks.

You won't see prices at the home URL, but they have an "on-line" store at www.texascraft.com (http://www.texascraft.com)...

10 sheets CLEAR -- $8.98
10 sheets WHITE -- $14.25
25 sheets WHITE -- $28.75
50 sheets CLEAR -- $40.37



www.papilio.com (http://www.papilio.com/)

[John Brohm]

While I know BelDecal (see link below) is the primary source for decal paper here in the U.S., I've also had friends here on the forum end up with some occasional bad batches :eek: of decal paper from Bel.

http://www.beldecal.com/inkjet-instructions.html


I think I'll wander down to the hobby shop, and ask my "regular guy" there about these Microscale products while I'm there:

http://www.bare-metal.com/decals/microscale_1.html

...

Hi Jay;

The Bare Metal Foil guys also market a decal sheet material for both Ink Jet and laser printers called Experts Choice. I use it almost exclusively because it's fairly thin, yet quite durable. Unlike some films that seem to freeze the instant you place them on the model, Experts Choice will slide around (with some care), and will take a reasonable amount of handling without falling apart. I usually buy the material in 25 sheet bulk packs (you can specify white or clear, laser or inkjet) to get a slightly better sheet rate. I love the stuff.

A couple of photos of some decals I've made with Experts Choice:

[tbzep]

How did you do the white decal with an inkjet or laser printer?

[John Brohm]

How did you do the white decal with an inkjet or laser printer?

Hey Tim;

ALPS MD-5000 printer, using Experts Choice Clear Laser Printer decal film.

[Green Dragon]

I have never used the Bel Paper, so can't comment.

I do use PAPILIO exclusively, and have had excellent results (although results with the last black onk cartridge I had, a genuine HP inkjet cart, was so-so and had the small cracking problem, previous ' refilled cart' had no trouble.

I;ve also used the Testors paper with good results, both clear and white ( good source for small quantities of white, but higher costs per sheet ).

I also use the Testor's decal bonder spray exclusively, on both Testor's and Papilio paper ( and on Excelsior decals ), and have never had a problem.

The only issue i've had at all, is one sheet of papilio paper, new HP ink ,testor's bonder got al wrinkled and bled when used with Microscale Micro-SOL decal solvent.
I;ve used MicroSOL on these before with no problems, but have not tried it again for fear of problems with new batch of paper / ink ( I blame the ink, but do have a new batch of paper, non-MicroSOL paper from new batch has been fine WITHOUT solvent, so blame the ink ) .

Good luck with your decals, I've been going nuts with making up decals for my projects, and the ability to do so , for the 'final touch' has kept me that much more into the 'retro / repro' end of rocketry the last couple years.

~ AL

[tbzep]

Hey Tim;

ALPS MD-5000 printer, using Experts Choice Clear Laser Printer decal film.


An ALPS printer, eh? You cheated! :p

[CPMcGraw]

I have never used the Bel Paper, so can't comment.

I do use PAPILIO exclusively, and have had excellent results (although results with the last black onk cartridge I had, a genuine HP inkjet cart, was so-so and had the small cracking problem, previous ' refilled cart' had no trouble.

HP inks are mostly transparent, even the black. However, it's the only formulation I've never had serious trouble with. I bought an Epson printer about a year or so ago, just to print decals, and had absolutely NO success on the Bel papers. (Having a bad batch of paper didn't help, either. That's what made me look for alternatives in the first place.) Epson "DuraBrite" inks works so-so on the Papilio, but still cracks badly no matter what setting I use. Ditto with the Lexmark black. I haven't tried the Epson "UltraChrome" inks yet.

[Bob H]

HP inks are mostly transparent, even the black. However, it's the only formulation I've never had serious trouble with. I bought an Epson printer about a year or so ago, just to print decals, and had absolutely NO success on the Bel papers. (Having a bad batch of paper didn't help, either. That's what made me look for alternatives in the first place.) Epson "DuraBrite" inks works so-so on the Papilio, but still cracks badly no matter what setting I use. Ditto with the Lexmark black. I haven't tried the Epson "UltraChrome" inks yet.I have had good results with my Lexmark printer (Dell branded) using Bel decal paper and haven't had the cracking problem you decribe. I have used both Krylon Crystal Clear Acrylic and Rustoleum Crystal Clear Enamel as a sealer with about equal results. All inkjet inks are transparent, as far as I know, and only show up well on a white base.

Most of my models are just sport flyers and that's good enough for them. For something special, I would just order decals from Excelsior.

[CPMcGraw]

I have had good results with my Lexmark printer (Dell branded) using Bel decal paper and haven't had the cracking problem you decribe. I have used both Krylon Crystal Clear Acrylic and Rustoleum Crystal Clear Enamel as a sealer with about equal results. All inkjet inks are transparent, as far as I know, and only show up well on a white base.

Most of my models are just sport flyers and that's good enough for them. For something special, I would just order decals from Excelsior.

Some inks, like those from Epson, have a thicker body to them, and are not quite as transparent as others. The pigmentation is finer. The Lexmark inks seem to be more like HP, but I've had cracking problems with all three of them. Some settings produce better results, but none are perfect. Heavier coats, like PHOTO settings produce, don't seem to help and sometimes just make a mess when the little star wheels walk through the still-wet inks. Like a dog walking across a freshly-poured sidewalk. My observation suggests the chemical formulation of the paper coatings causes the inks to dry at uneven rates, some colors drying too quickly and shrinking (cracking) while others remain wet (and causing little star-wheel-dots to be found all through the image).

One can probably find better-quality printers in all camps, but I'm cheap and tend to use the sub-$100 class in each line. That's not going to change the formulation of the ink, which is a greater issue to me than even the star-wheel problem. I don't think you'll ever see one paper that properly handles all of these inks, but if I could just find one paper that works completely right with ONE brand of ink and printer, I'll be a very happy boy...

[Green Dragon]

I'd agree with the inkjet inks being transparent, so definately don;t work well over darker base colors.
( as noted, if needing lighter top colors, I tend to buy from Phred or Tango papa ).

Regarding the note on HP inks - I have to agree, as when I first started printing my own decals ( testors paper for first 2 or 3, then bought bulk Papilio off ebay ).. I had carts in my HP printer that had been REFILLED with ink ( black refills fine, colors are hit and miss).
however, when the print head on the black cart burned out - not such a surprise, since it's been refilled 5-6 times - then I purchased a new, genuine HP cart, figuring it had better circuitry, without ever thinking about the ink being better / worse.. figured the refill ink was 'cheap' anyways.
SURPRISE.... the HP ink is definately worse, and has the cracking problem as described.

I'd reccomend, for people playing with HP. Lexmark or simila 'cheap' printers, to try different inks - there are various 'compatible' carts on the market now, ink formulations have to vary , although I can't say which will be better.

and , I have had the ' star wheel' problem as noted, not sure how to get around that :-( , especially on 'Photo' settings as Craig noted.

~ AL

( watching this thread to gain some tips myself, :) )

[JRThro]

I have had good results with my Lexmark printer (Dell branded) using Bel decal paper and haven't had the cracking problem you decribe. I have used both Krylon Crystal Clear Acrylic and Rustoleum Crystal Clear Enamel as a sealer with about equal results. All inkjet inks are transparent, as far as I know, and only show up well on a white base.

Most of my models are just sport flyers and that's good enough for them. For something special, I would just order decals from Excelsior.
Bob, that's good news, if I ever decide to print decals. I have a Lexmark multi-function printer and use real Lexmark ink cartridges.

What print settings have you used to get good results?

[Bob H]

Bob, that's good news, if I ever decide to print decals. I have a Lexmark multi-function printer and use real Lexmark ink cartridges.

What print settings have you used to get good results?I have a Lexmark all-in-one printer, scanner, copier, and fax. It says Dell on it but it's indentical to the Lexmark printers in the stores.

I have used the "Best" setting when the decals have a lot of detail and the "better" setting when they don't.

The ink cartridges I get from Dell because I get a company discount so they end up about the same price as the Lexmark cartriges at a discount store but I get them delivered and with the gas savings, I might come out ahead.

I don't get the "star wheel" problem that others seem to have so I guess I'm lucky.