View Full Version : Estes Ejection Charges: THERMONUCLEAR!!!
Tau Zero
10-22-2006, 07:02 PM
From the "Tau Zero" Launch (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=12369&postcount=47) thread:Having a T-Nuke [Thermonuclear ejection charge] destroy [a rocket] on the way up is just poor quality control over those motors.
Maybe we should start a thread on bad motor batches here on the forum, something we can all quickly compare against. What batch code was on that B6-4?If I read it correctly, A071805. The wierd part is, "Tau Zero" Prototype I and my Estes Wolverine 1.36X upscale flew fine on the other two B6-4's in the same package. :(
Don't we have somebody who works at Estes here on the forum? Could they tell us who to contact? Hopefully somebody who would actually *listen,* and who could also get the message to someone who could actually *do* something about this problem? *PLEASE?!?* :mad: :(
CPMcGraw
10-22-2006, 07:49 PM
From the "Tau Zero" Launch (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=12369&postcount=47) thread:If I read it correctly, A071805. The wierd part is, "Tau Zero" Prototype I and my Estes Wolverine 1.36X upscale flew fine on the other two B6-4's in the same package. :(
Don't we have somebody who works at Estes here on the forum? Could they tell us who to contact? Hopefully somebody who would actually *listen,* and who could also get the message to someone who could actually *do* something about this problem? *PLEASE?!?* :mad: :(
Just to make this interesting, I'm going to start an Excel spreadsheet chart on bad batches, so if anyone else can give this thread some batch numbers and the engine type (and the date and nature of the incident), I'll collect this into a web list similar to the Kit Lists. When I get a few more entries, I'll send Scott a copy that he can post somewhere on YORS.
CPMcGraw
10-22-2006, 07:56 PM
From the "Tau Zero" Launch (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=12369&postcount=47) thread:If I read it correctly, A071805.
If I read the motor code chart correctly, this was manufacturing year 1996 (letter A), so it's a 10-year-old motor? (Addendum: I've seen two charts now, BTW, and the second suggests a different sequence prior to 2000. This may be a post-2000 motor, so the letter may mean something else...)
CPMcGraw
10-22-2006, 08:20 PM
Anyone,
In looking up this information, I can only locate references to the OLD date code, which was in the form of DDYMM, where DD=Day Of Month, Y=Year Code, and MM=Month. How are the post-2000 motor date codes interpreted? If I were to guess, looking at Jay's motor code of A071805, I would interpret it as MMDDYY -- July 18, 2005.
I have an A8-3 spent casing with a date code of A100404, which would become October 4, 2004.
I have 5 B6-4 casings identical to Jay's. :eek: I'll just bet one of them was used in the Tau Zero...
Something to try and confirm this pattern, I have another B6-4 with a date code of A052703, which becomes May 27, 2003.
Would anyone like to confirm or deny this pattern?
Tau Zero
10-22-2006, 11:34 PM
Don't we have somebody who works at Estes here on the forum? Could they tell us who to contact? Hopefully somebody who would actually *listen,* and who could also get the message to someone who could actually *do* something about this problem? *PLEASE?!?* :mad: :(I tracked him/her down. It was "Roguepink" over on The Rocketry Forum (TRF). I sent an e-mail respectfully asking them to please read this thread, and pass the message along. :D
I hope to *God* it's the beginning of something good for *everybody* involved. :cool:
Cheers,
CPMcGraw
10-22-2006, 11:40 PM
Would you believe I have eight A8-3 carcasses with that same date code?
Also, I found a couple of 13mm cases with "B" and what could be "B", "E", or "F" letter codes. I'm guessing here that these represent the various sub-batches done that day, or possibly the machine they were done on...
Shreadvector
10-23-2006, 10:09 AM
Modern date codes are NOT the same as the old codes.
the old codes used a letter for the year.
I was told that the new codes use a letter to indicate the casing supplier.
When reporting a failure you need both the letter and the date code. Letter for casing supplier and date code for date of motor manufacture.
It can be listed all in one 'line" or in 2 'lines' like on the 24mm casings.
This needs to be updated since it only covers the old date codes which were in place up to and through the E15 era (which led to a need to track casing suppliers):
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/model-rockets/model-rockets/
CPMcGraw
10-23-2006, 12:24 PM
...I was told that the new codes use a letter to indicate the casing supplier...
Now that's an interesting twist. I didn't think of that possibility, but it really makes more sense than marking smaller sub-batches within the production day. Where did you hear that information, Shread?
barone
10-23-2006, 07:46 PM
Try this link for reporting motor malfunctions.
http://nar.org/NARmessform.html
You don't have to be a NAR member to use this reporting form.
Don
NAR 53455
barone
10-23-2006, 07:52 PM
Just to make this interesting, I'm going to start an Excel spreadsheet chart on bad batches, so if anyone else can give this thread some batch numbers and the engine type (and the date and nature of the incident), I'll collect this into a web list similar to the Kit Lists. When I get a few more entries, I'll send Scott a copy that he can post somewhere on YORS.
Craig,
You may want to contact NAR S&T ans see if you can get some info from them. They've been gathering info on malfunctioning engines. Start at this link.
http://nar.org/NARsandt.html
Don
NAR 53455
Tau Zero
10-23-2006, 10:50 PM
I tracked him/her down. It was "Roguepink" over on The Rocketry Forum (TRF). I sent an e-mail respectfully asking them to please read this thread, and pass the message along. :D
I hope to *God* it's the beginning of something good for *everybody* involved. :cool:From: Centuri Guy
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:30 PM
To: Hal Bierman
Subject: A pertinent YORF thread
>> Hi! Could you please read the following thread from "Ye Olde Rocket Forum,"
>> and pass the message along?
>>
>> http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=1212
>>
>> Thank you for your time and consideration.
>>
>>
>> Respectfully yours,
>>
>> --Jay Goemmer
>> "Centuri Guy"
>> Twin Falls, Idaho
I just sent out the following e-mail:
Dear Mr. Bierman,
Thank you for your kind and timely response to my request.
From: "Hal Bierman"
To: "centuriguy"
Cc: "Christine Swartz"
Subject: RE: A pertinent YORF thread
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:10:27 -0600
< I'll ask customer service if they have had other reports of this. I've seen it myself, watched a rocket detonate just as it cleared the pad. My early reaction is that given the number of motors we produce every day, the number of faults is extremely low. However, 100% reliability is the only acceptable answer. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I do appreciate it.
This is a good reminder that we are all dealing with potential hazards, safety on the range must always be the 1st priority.>
Many of us over on Ye Olde Rocket Forum (YORF) are convinced that Estes' current formulation for ejection charges is *many* times greater than it was when we were flying rockets 35 or 40 years ago. While I understand the need to improve a given product, my fellow "Old Rocketeers" and I have had rockets blown to pieces because of the current (relatively speaking) "Thermonuclear" Estes ejection charges.
We've been frustrated, even wondering if it's an intentional ploy by Estes (e.g., "We'll blow up our consumers' rockets, and they'll have to buy even *more* from us!" --followed by evil laughter). Granted, we've all experienced CATO's from time to time, but every once in a while, it seems like Estes engines will blow our handiwork to pieces, and we'll swear to buy engines from Quest (which I hear are a *lot* messier and leave much more ejection charge residue, given their chemical formulation). But eventually, we convince ourselves to buy Estes engines again.
I suggest you read the review of Bill Eichelberger's Centuri "Taurus" clone (http://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/kits/sem_taurus.html[/url) on EMRR (Essence Rocket Reviews). It seems like Bill (out of all of us) seems to experience the excessive ejection charges on a semi-regular basis. The third picture speaks for itself.
< If you would like to personally address this with customer service, the number is (719) 372-6565. You will find our customer service reps are very knowlegable and understanding.
Please feel free to copy my reply to YORF.
Hal Bierman
Model Maker
Estes-Cox Co.
(800) 525-7561 ext. 290
hbierman@centurims.com
"Can Do!">
Thanks again for your time and your help.
Cheers,
+++
Tau Zero
10-23-2006, 11:14 PM
Try this link for reporting motor malfunctions.
http://nar.org/NARmessform.html
You don't have to be a NAR member to use this reporting form.Thanks, Don! You've come through for me once again! :D :cool:
Cheers,
Shreadvector
10-24-2006, 07:39 AM
I think I was told this by someone at Estes over the telephone when I was reporting a motor failure back when the date codes changed. It might have been a "poopy clay" failure I was reporting.
I'm sure if you call them, they can provide a date code decoder. Then we just need to post it everywhere so we can find it again in the future without waiting for the FAQ to be updated.
Now that's an interesting twist. I didn't think of that possibility, but it really makes more sense than marking smaller sub-batches within the production day. Where did you hear that information, Shread?
vBulletin v3.0.7, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.