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CPMcGraw
05-01-2005, 11:10 PM
All,

I picked up a new printer to try out. A Lexmark Z816. Office Max had them on sale for $80, and I figured it was cheap enough to be worth playing with... :D

My results are mixed, though I'm not at all certain the printer or the inks have anything to do with the problems I've encountered. :eek:

The decal paper I'm using is Bel Decal's clear sheet for Ink Jet printers. I printed a couple of test sheets. On each sheet, part of the image printed beautifully, while other areas acted as if the coating was the wrong formulation -- like it might have been either missing entirely, or was the laser paper coating instead. One sheet had almost a straight line from top to bottom where the ink dried correctly on one side, but remained wet after 24 hours on the other! :eek:

The next test was after applying three spray coats of clear gloss acrylic. When the decal was allowed to soak in water, the ink started running from the back of the decal, where there should have been a protective layer. :mad:

I am terribly disappointed with these results, and as I said before, I don't think it's the printer or the inks that are at fault. I'm more convinced the Bel paper is at fault. Until I can test my theory out on some better papers, I won't know for sure. If it were not for the paper being crap, this printer would be more than adaquate. The saturation of the inks (opacity) in PHOTO mode is great, and the accuracy of alignment is much better than my Epson C84. There was no cracking of the ink as it dried, so the images were solid right up to when I dipped one in water. :confused:


Craig McGraw

CPMcGraw
05-18-2005, 09:47 PM
I have now had an opportunity to try out the Lexmark Z816 printer on a "good" sheet of Bel Decal paper.

It Sucks!

I am not happy at all about this combination, and I still don't know if it's the ink at fault, or the paper, or BOTH.

To be more specific:

I have no major complaints about the printer in normal use, with regular paper or cardstock printing jobs. The text and images are, in fact, far more "in register" with this printer than with the Epson I was using before. The printer creates the output image crisply, and cleanly, and it is very fast compared to the Epson. An example of this is a printing I made of the Centuri Vulcan shroud and fins which looks beautiful...

When printing on Bel Decal Ink Jet Paper, the image prints well, with none of the "orange peel" effect found with the Epson inks. It is necessary to print as "photo" on a "coated" sheet to get the cleanest image, however. In this mode, it produces a complete image, and the ink shows no hint of the problem which is to come. When you apply the clear acrylic, the image stays solid, and there is no reaction between the spray and the ink.

So, I apply two or three coats of spray, and allow to dry completely between layers...

The problem is when I dip the decal into water. The ink immediately starts breaking up between the acrylic outer layer and the paper's adhesive/sealer layer. It is as if the protective layer is only partially there, or is highly permeable to water.

Under these circumstances, all of the decals I have printed this way aren't worth their weight in horse crap.

To say that I am really po'd would be an understatement, and what really chews my haggis is the lack of compatability information from Bel Decal about which inks and/or printers produce the best results with their papers. One would think this would be the kind of information Bel would WANT people to know!

To be sure, I've seen NOTHING in print on the web about ink/paper combinations that work as expected. When one considers this hobby, plus the model car hobby, PLUS the model railroad hobby (which uses custom decals far more than we do!), PLUS the model airplane hobby -- you would think someone has compiled a list somewhere based on their own experiences.

This is beginning to sound like The Neverending Story, in that there may really be no combinations that work correctly. Right now, the feeling I get is it's the paper that is the issue. The paper's protective-adhiesive layer is just not doing its job. This layer is supposed to keep the ink from coming in contact with the water -- certainly a "well duh!" if you think about it: Ink jet printers use water-soluble inks.

To this point, the only ink that I've had any real success with has been the HP line. Fortunately, I have access to a low-end HP All-In-One printer that I'm going to try, and see if I can get at least one good decal from this $25 pack of sheets. As soon as I can test it out, I'll post here to let you know.

Craig McGraw

ShieldWolf
05-19-2005, 07:34 AM
Are you using the clear coat recommended by Bel?

If not, that may be the source of the problem.

If you are using the recommended sealer, try another clear acrylic on top of that to see if it will seal better. I would try it on a scrap piece first to make sure it doesn't have a reaction with the decal film.

Personally, I'm having trouble getting the decal to print solid colors without excessive orange peal. Thin lines and letters print okay, it's just large areas of solid color. For example, the skull and cross bones for Der Red Max print fine, but the cross (forgot the name of that), looks like the bottom af a dry lakebed. :mad: Don't even think about the band at the top of the rocket. :(

Randal

CPMcGraw
05-19-2005, 12:09 PM
Are you using the clear coat recommended by Bel?

On these attempts, no. I was using the Valspar Acrylic. I have a fresh can of Krylon that I'll try on the next sheet. I really don't think the acrylic itself is the problem: The decals "held together" OK, it was just the water coming through the backing paper that was causing the trouble. The ink was bleeding and cracking "behind" a solid layer of Acrylic...

If not, that may be the source of the problem.

If you are using the recommended sealer, try another clear acrylic on top of that to see if it will seal better. I would try it on a scrap piece first to make sure it doesn't have a reaction with the decal film.

I've put as much as three layers on top of the ink, and the problem persists. If it takes four sprays, then we've really got a problem! :eek:

Personally, I'm having trouble getting the decal to print solid colors without excessive orange peal. Thin lines and letters print okay, it's just large areas of solid color. For example, the skull and cross bones for Der Red Max print fine, but the cross (forgot the name of that), looks like the bottom af a dry lakebed. :mad: Don't even think about the band at the top of the rocket. :(

Randal

Sounds like my Epson C84. The DuraBrite inks are chemically incompatable with the coating on the Bel papers. All I ever got from them was "orange peel". :mad:

I'm starting to look for a different decal paper. I've heard about another line called "SuperCal", but all I've found so far were starter sets, and not refills.

I've built the DRM and a "Dopple Max" (two-stage DBRM), so I'll be needing those decals, too. :D

Craig...

Bob H
05-19-2005, 01:24 PM
I use Bels decal paper with a Lexmark printer and The Krylon acrylic clear. I have found that I have to use 3 fairly heavy coats of clear.

The water seepage problem your having sounds like it is not fully sealed. If there is any part of the topcoat that water can get through, it will, and ruin the decal.

I have started printing little test squares on my decal sheets and I dip those first. If I get any bleed through, I give the sheet another coat of clear.

Make sure you don't cut the decal too close to the printed image so that you break the seal.

CPMcGraw
05-19-2005, 01:55 PM
I'm ordering a starter pack from this company:

http://texascraft.com/hps/home.php


Size: 8.5"X11" (215.9mmX279.4mm)
Clear Waterslide Decal Paper Kit. For use in any desktop printer. (Not intended for use with DURAbrite or solvent based inks.)
Item # IAS8511GK

Pack of 5 sheets
Each sheet is 8.5" X 11"
2 fl oz decal fixative
6 foam pads.
Instructions included.
Use in any inkjet desktop printer.

Price: $12.65
This company shows their papers being used with Krylon Acrylic spray...

They also suggest (and sell, of course) a "fixative" that makes the decals thin, but strong. I won't know until I receive the kit if they intend for the fixative to take the place of the acrylic. Their web site information seems to suggest this.

This company does indicate their papers are not compatible with Epson DuraBRITE inks, as these are solvent-based and not water-based.

I did look at the SuperCal web pages, but I think I'll save ordering any of their papers until the very last. The papers are $4.00 a sheet (8.5 x 11), which is 4x the price of any other decal sheet. It may eventually prove to be the ONLY option left, but until then, I'll save it for later.

Now, here's the big kicker for all who need a printed chrome or gold foil:


Inkjet Silver/Chrome Metallic Self-Adhesive Polyester
Size: 8.5"X11" (215.9mmX279.4mm)
Pack of 5 Sheets
Color: Metallic high gloss Chrome/Silver
Item # SAP8511G5

PERMANENT Self-adhesive

Some general info about Gold and Silver Polyester self-adhesive film.
This is a 3 MIL quality inkjet printable metallic poly-film.
Now you can use any desktop inkjet printer to make metallic looking placards and signs in shiny gold and silver. You can print onto this film in black and white or in colors. Color images will look great on the silver/chrome film but the gold film is more suitable for printing awards, diplomas and other signs of similar nature using black ink. But the gold film will of course also accept colors.

Price: $9.89
They have a similar pack with the gold foil...

Stay tooned! :D

Craig McGraw

CPMcGraw
05-19-2005, 02:30 PM
I use Bels decal paper with a Lexmark printer and The Krylon acrylic clear. I have found that I have to use 3 fairly heavy coats of clear.

The water seepage problem your having sounds like it is not fully sealed. If there is any part of the topcoat that water can get through, it will, and ruin the decal.

I have started printing little test squares on my decal sheets and I dip those first. If I get any bleed through, I give the sheet another coat of clear.

Make sure you don't cut the decal too close to the printed image so that you break the seal.

The first time I ever used Bel papers was with an HP, and with three coats of clear, I had no problems either. But this package of papers has been anything BUT successful. Several sheets were visibly flawed; some of the sheets had NO coating at all in stripes, some of the individual sheets seemed to be half ink jet paper and half laser paper (the ink refused to dry on half of one sheet even after 48 hours!)...

That's why I'm not at all sure the printer (or its ink) is at fault. I really think the paper is the enemy this time. I attribute that to poor quality control.

I did cut close to the image, but I still left enough clear that there should not have been any bleeding. I might expect bleeding around the outer edges in that situation, but this stuff is cracking and bleeding from the middle outward. That means the water is getting in through the adhesive layer, not from around the outer edges.

If I get this kind of result from the HP, then I'll know for sure.

Craig McGraw

ScaleNut
05-19-2005, 07:35 PM
so far Bel paper with HP ink no problems what so ever, but I am still on the first pack I purchased 2 yrs ago

I do know for a fact that the inks differ, HP ink is electronicaly charged to work as it does with an HP printer,, the colors, weight ,and viscosity are specific to different brands

all said,,,this indeeed sounds like a paper problem.

let us know what you can, as I've been very happy with Bel so far. but am running low

CPMcGraw
05-19-2005, 10:33 PM
so far Bel paper with HP ink no problems what so ever, but I am still on the first pack I purchased 2 yrs ago

I do know for a fact that the inks differ, HP ink is electronicaly charged to work as it does with an HP printer,, the colors, weight ,and viscosity are specific to different brands

all said,,,this indeeed sounds like a paper problem.

let us know what you can, as I've been very happy with Bel so far. but am running low

I use Bels decal paper with a Lexmark printer and The Krylon acrylic clear. I have found that I have to use 3 fairly heavy coats of clear.

The water seepage problem your having sounds like it is not fully sealed. If there is any part of the topcoat that water can get through, it will, and ruin the decal.

I just tried printing a sheet with my mom's HP hydra, and I immediately got different results. The ink works much better, although I am still getting the bleeding effect when I start applying the decal.

Bob, I can see your point. The decal is not being sealed as it should be, and this might be a problem with my Acrylic coats not being thick enough. But I also think the paper has a flaw that might not be found in most of their sheets; in fact, I never had this kind of problem with my first pack from Bel...

ScaleNut, I was not fully aware of HP's electrostatic properties in their inks. It might have an effect on the ink sticking better to the paper. Like Bob, though, my Lexmark prints a beautiful image on the sheet, and it dries without cracking or showing any "orange peel". It just doesn't remain intact when the decal is dipped.

I'm going to try additional decals with this HP, and adjust the number of sprayed Acrylic layers. These last ones had four sprays, and they still bled, but only after applying the decal to the model. I'm going to try adding two more layers to the remaining decals. The spray I'm trying out this time is also a bit different, it has a different smell than the first cans and it dries much thinner. Maybe I'm just not building up the thickness enough.

When the new decal kit arrives, I'm going to try out the fixative spray they ship with it, and see if that makes any difference. They sure imply it will on the website. Interestingly, the SuperCal packages offer a similar fixative with their kits. Their's is applied with a pump sprayer, and they say you only apply one coat, just enough to make the whole sheet shine. Maybe this stuff 'changes' the properties of the ink somehow. I don't know. I'll find out when it gets here...

Craig...

Bob H
05-19-2005, 10:40 PM
I'll be interested in the results you get with the new decal stock. I still have about a dozen sheets of my Bels paper left but lately I have been making a lot of cardstock models and just printing everything on the paper and sealing with the Krylon acrylic. So I'm not making many decals right now.

CPMcGraw
05-19-2005, 11:08 PM
The decal is not being sealed as it should be, and this might be a problem with my Acrylic coats not being thick enough.

Additional thought...

It might also be that my can of Acrylic spray was a bit old...

The new can produced a better coat, a bit stiffer than what I had been using once it dried. This can says "dries in 15 minutes", and like I said, smells different than the previous cans. Maybe this is a different formulation...

Craig...

A Fish Named Wallyum
05-19-2005, 11:31 PM
They all seem to have different smells. I've had a couple that even smelled fruity. :confused:

CPMcGraw
05-19-2005, 11:41 PM
They all seem to have different smells. I've had a couple that even smelled fruity. :confused:

I'm not sure I'd call any of these "fruity", but the smells make me feel "nutty" and "flakey"... :eek:

Maybe I should be living in the "Cereal Bowl of America"... :cool:

Craig...

A Fish Named Wallyum
05-19-2005, 11:51 PM
The fruity one was a cheap can I bought at a local Meijer. Never seen that brand before and probably won't again.

CPMcGraw
06-06-2005, 05:33 PM
I thought I'd post an update to my search for another source of decal sheets.

I received my sample kit from Papilio, out of Texas, Friday of last week, and I have printed my first decal through the Lexmark Z816 printer. First observation, the decal seems to print more-or-less completely, though I can clearly see some imperfections in the ink delivery. It's amazing how you always notice some odd spot or two when you really hope to find none.

On an un-sealed decal sheet, the ink appears to 'set' itself into the coating all right, even with the odd spot around the image. I used fresh Lexmark cartridges for this test; there might have been some air bubbles in the ink delivery system, and it may take an image or two to clear this out. Additionally, a flaw in the printer itself has been found. The tiny 'star wheels' that hold the paper down and which are supposed to provide minimal contact with the ink, seem to be collecting gunk and are causing the ink to show a line of very tiny dots where the wheel has rolled through. Except for manually wiping off these wheels, I don't know if I can clean them. Maybe a printer cleaning sheet? Is there generically such an animal? Other than these few flaws, the ink looks solid.

Now, it is time to apply the Clear Decal Fixative to the decal. I went back to the website to see if they recommend airbrushing this fluid, and they do seem to indicate that spraying is the best way to get a thin, even coverage. The fluid takes something like eight hours to completely dry. Finding a place where the fumes won't cause trouble, and where dust and animal hair won't contaminate the surface, is the next task on my list. Papilio recommends turpentine for clean-up, so I'll have to go find a small can of this before I get started. I'll go pick up a can from Lowe's tomorrow.

On their website, they now say their Ink Jet Aqua Slide (IAS) paper is compatable with Epson printers, and that the best result with these printers is achieved on the transparency settings. Now I gotta go dig out that printer and haul it back inside, clean it out, and attach it up to my computer for another test.

Also found this interesting notation -- the Clear Decal Fixative is also called Decal Solution, and Decal Film. You can spray this on an uncoated decal sheet (yes, they do make such a thing) and when it dries, you can print a reverse image onto it, then spray another layer over that to create a thin decal. I suppose you could print a positive image and do the same. This fluid encapsulates the ink completely. One day, I will have to try this feature out.

If this system works, the prices are at least as reasonable as Bel Decal, but there seems to be more flexibility when choosing the printer. There is also much more information about the product available through the Papilio website, which I find is a selling feature.

A 100-sheet pack of clear is $56.60 plus shipping (varies by state, Texas residents add sales tax). The 16 oz can of fluid is $35.37. I don't know how far this much fluid will go, but it is only supposed to take one coat to make the decal. They say you might need two coats, but I guess that might be for large decals or extreme application requirements.

I'll post again when I have the chance to apply this fluid over the test sheet, and report on the results. Aside from the spots, which may only be from bad cartridges, this paper looks good. It is much more glossy than the Bel sheets, whatever that means.


Craig McGraw

CPMcGraw
06-13-2005, 10:06 PM
Tonight, I had the chance to apply some of the first decals printed on the Papilio paper using the Lexmark printer. These decals were sprayed with the Krylon Clear Acrylic, as I have not found a suitable thinning solution for their fixative. It is a thick syrup-like liquid that they recommend pouring onto the decal sheet and allowing it to roll around over the decal. I will try this method on another sheet. Also note, the Krylon I used was not the slow-cure version, but the fast-cure "15-minute-dry" variety. This version works, but it sets up much harder and with a more brittle feel than the slow-cure variety. It is also not as glossy when cured.

The decals came out quite nicely this time, which really confirms the poor quality of the Bel sheets I purchased earlier. One observation about the ink was that you could even cut through the ink after the last acrylic layer had dried, and when dipped into warm water the ink did not bleed at the cut edge.

Large decals are always an issue, regardless of whether the decal is home-made or professionally made. I've had MicroScale decals that would not behave when they were large, and they're considered one of the best in the business. The decals I created were wraps for ST-10 body tubes, and they were measured such that the decals only slightly overlapped at the seam. These decals wrapped around well, but I was not able to fully expunge the air from under the thin acrylic. I think this is a combination of the acrylic spray I used, and not using a decal setting solution under the decal. It took a lot of careful rubbing with a tissue to remove what I could, but some spots were just too stubborn. I'll have to wait until the decals dry, then poke the bubbles with a pin or the tip of a knife, and brush some decal setting solution onto them.

Actually, I'll probably just spray the models with acrylic and go fly them...

The two that I worked in this test were SEMROC's Astrobee 350 and Astro-1. I created decals to mimic the catalog images from 1965 (all-white Aerobee with black decal) and 1969 (white body Astro-1, with black nose cone and fins, and black & red decal), respectively. Yes, in spite of the obvious flaws that I can see in the printing and in the acrylic layers, these turned out rather nicely.

It will take a few decals through all of these printers to see which ones come out the best. Now that I know the Papilio papers are Epson-compatable, I will have to try a sheet through the old C84 to see for myself. I have to admit, the quality of the Epson inks on photographic paper is very nice, with fully saturated colors that decals would certainly benefit from. Those inks are not water-based, but solvent-based, and as such were not compatable with the water-based glue layers on other sheets. We'll see...

Attached is an image taken with my ultra-cheap digital camera, showing the results.

Craig McGraw

JRThro
06-22-2005, 10:15 AM
Craig,

Thanks for walking us through this. Any further updates?

-John T.-

CPMcGraw
06-22-2005, 07:40 PM
I finally had a chance to try out the Decal Fixative that came with the package...

FIRST -- This compound uses turpentine for thinning and clean-up, so I can at least say the smell was not unpleasant. It is, after all, concentrated pine spirits. It's certainly a lot better than the odor of acrylic spray. However...

SECOND -- To use this compound effectively, you need a dedicated paint room, with every possible dust-removal system operating. You do not want to use this compound out in the open, or as I'm forced to do, out in the carport. ANY cat hair, dog hair, cobweb, or other airborne nusance WILL find its way onto the decal and contaminate it...

THIRD -- The only good way to apply this compound is highly thinned, and sprayed with a full-blown Campbell-Hausfeld spray gun or detail gun, and not any kind of airbrush. You need volume, not pressure, for this task. The recommended method from Papilio involves the use of foam cosmetic wedges (ask your wives, they'll probably have whole packages of these...) to spread the liquid around. Trust me, this is NOT the best way to apply the compound. It IS the most messy and least-satisfying way to apply it. I believe I have ruined two full decal sheets with this stuff trying to apply it both with an airbrush (experimenting, of course...) and with the foam wedges. The liquid is still too viscus, even cut 60/40 with turpentine.

I am still waiting for these sheets to dry, but I'm not holding my breath for success. What I am likely to do is print these sheets again, but go back to the tried-and-true acrylic spray method of sealing the decals; I will probably stick with this method until I can get my 'big gun' involved. The thing is, before I spray another batch of the fixative, I still need the dust-free environment, and I need to be spraying ten or fifteen sheets of decals to justify the quantity of compound I'd have to mix up.

So, my conclusion to this series of reports is that Bel Decal has slipped in quality to last place, with no obvious quality control procedure to catch bad sheets from leaving their warehouse. Papilio decal sheets seem to be a better decal at the present time, with more variety of products available from this company than Bel. SuperCal is at least twice as expensive as either Papilio or Bel, without the variety. I have not used SuperCal sheets yet, and may have to try them out at some time in the future.

Also, the Lexmark printers can be used sucsessfully with the Papilio sheets, but not perfectly. There are blemishes that are due entirely to the printer which you may either have to 'live with' or move up to a more expensive printer. One trick I found out which does work better with the Lexmark is to set the printer for transparencies instead of treated. The paper is drawn into the machine slowly, instead of rapidly, which tends to knock the sheet out of alignment.

I will also try out the Epson printer with these Papilio sheets later, when I have another batch handy. The Epson ink is already waterproof, which means you should be able to cut into the decal and not have any 'bleed' problem.

I do not recommend the Papilio decal fixative at this time. Stick with the acrylic spray cans -- it's easier and neater to work with.

Craig...

CPMcGraw
06-29-2005, 04:32 PM
Of course, everyone knows that as soon as I say "Bel Decal paper is rotten, doesn't do what it's supposed to, the ink doesn't... whatever...", I'll try another sheet to find that it works perfectly, without any of the flaws that prompted my rants and ravages earlier.

I just printed a full sheet of decals on one of the Bel Decal papers that came with my most-recent order -- Yes, a sheet from the same package as those which failed so horribly! Want to guess how it came out?

Right... No errors related to the paper. The only flaws I could see this time were related to the image, and these I could actually see in the TIF when I examined it closer in Photoshop.

So, what happened?

Human error, for sure, with Bel not carefully examining the quality of the papers they were shipping. Mechanical error, for sure, in that the sheets with the problem had incomplete layering, probably at the very beginning of a run, or at the end of a run. Bel should have spotted these problems and discarded these edge sections instead of dumping them on the customer.

Will I ever order again from Bel? Maybe. I want to see if the Papilio papers are truly compatable with the Epson first, and if so, then I'll stick with them. I like the Epson inks a little better than I do the Lexmark inks, because I think the opacity is better. The waterproof aspect of the Epson inks is a genuine plus for waterslide decals, but the paper has to be compatable. If it isn't, then there's no advantage at all.

This story is not finished yet. There's still the SuperCal decal papers out there, and one day I want to try them out, to see if they're worth the higher price.

Craig

Ltvscout
06-29-2005, 07:35 PM
This story is not finished yet. There's still the SuperCal decal papers out there, and one day I want to try them out, to see if they're worth the higher price.
Did you ever try the paper that Tango Papa sells?

CPMcGraw
06-29-2005, 07:40 PM
Did you ever try the paper that Tango Papa sells?

Scott,

TangoPapa says on his website that his papers are for Laser Printers only (which includes the ALPS series). Unless TP has started selling Ink Jet paper recently, his website doesn't mention it.

Craig

Ltvscout
06-29-2005, 07:41 PM
Scott,

TangoPapa says on his website that his papers are for Laser Printers only (which includes the ALPS series). Unless TP has started selling Ink Jet paper recently, his website doesn't mention it.

Craig
Heh, I never read the fine print. I just knew that he sold decal paper.

CPMcGraw
06-29-2005, 09:00 PM
Well, I've got another report about those Bel Decal papers. The decal sheet I printed earlier today, which on the surface looked great out of the printer, craps out when it comes time to apply the decal to the model.

I sprayed three coats of acrylic over this sheet and allowed it to dry in a very warm environment (my carport -- 95 degrees or better) thoroughly between each coat. The ink still bleeds when the decal is dipped, almost as badly as if there were no acrylic layer at all.

Bel Decal has changed the formula on their papers. No doubt about it. This is not the same decal sheet that I first received over a year ago.

On the basis of this test, I firmly do not recommend the use of Bel papers, as their papers do not perform even adaquately, and their quality control is clearly not up to the task.

Craig...

Bob H
06-29-2005, 09:04 PM
Have you tried the decal paper that Micro Mark sells? The instructions seem to be similar to the Bel's instructions. When you take a look at the picture of their decal sealer, it's Krylon Crystal Clear.

I haven't tried it yet because I'm not finished with the Bels that I have, but may try it when I need more decal paper.

They guarantee the decal paper to be free of defects for 90 days so you have a while to test it.

25 sheets is $25.80 so the price seems reasonable.

Instructions are here:

http://www.micromark.com/html_pages/instructions/decal_instruction.html

Decal paper is here:

http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp

CPMcGraw
06-29-2005, 09:44 PM
Have you tried the decal paper that Micro Mark sells? The instructions seem to be similar to the Bel's instructions. When you take a look at the picture of their decal sealer, it's Krylon Crystal Clear.

I haven't tried it yet because I'm not finished with the Bels that I have, but may try it when I need more decal paper.

They guarantee the decal paper to be free of defects for 90 days so you have a while to test it.

25 sheets is $25.80 so the price seems reasonable.

Haven't tried them yet. I like the guarantee. That's the first one I've seen yet on decal papers.

I might have to order some. If these are the same as Bel used to be, then it would be OK for HP and Lexmark printers.

Price is on par with Bel and Papilio. I like the booklet / catalog that Papilio sends with your order. They have other items that would be useful for us.

Craig

CPMcGraw
08-07-2005, 02:29 PM
This is a follow-up on some previous items...

Saturday, I printed up three sheets of decals for a marathon session of finishing, and wanted to pass along some comments on the results:

FIRST -- The Lexmark inks work reasonably well, and are at least as opaque as the HP inks, if not a bit more so. One drawback is it takes longer for the ink to dry in photo-quality mode, and this creates a new problem: On my printer (Z816), there are some mechanical issues with the guide wheels and the print cartridge shuttle that still cause less-than-perfect prints. The brass star wheels that are supposed to keep the paper down have a bad tendency to lift the still-wet ink from the sheet in tiny dots as it passes. In normal- or treated-paper mode, the sheet is jerked at an angle coming out of the feed area, even though the prints appear to be aligned with the edges. I don't know if this is a problem with the guide system, or just the paper feed area not being aligned itself. In transparency-mode, the sheet is pulled slowly into the print area.

SECOND -- The normal slow-cure Krylon Gloss Acrylic spray tends to dry very glossy, while the quick-dry version tends to form a stiff skin that isn't glossy at all. More frosted-translucent than clear. Also, the VALSPAR "American Traditions" version tends to dry a bit frosted and cloudy, and when the volume in the can reaches the end, the properties tend to change rapidly. I've been wanting to try out the non-aerosol version of spirit-based Minwax Polycrylic in a detail spray gun, to see if the results are more controllable. More on this later.

THIRD -- I'm going to try at least one of these Papilio sheets in my Epson today, to see if the sheets are compatable with the inks. I hope so; the Epson inks are solvent-based instead of water-based, and are waterproof when cured. Plus, they are considerably more opaque than either the HP or Lexmark inks. More later.

CPMcGraw
08-07-2005, 08:14 PM
Finally printed a test sheet with the old Epson C84... :(

I thought I was going to see a little difference, and to be truthful, there is a difference between the Papilio sheets and the Bel sheets. The Papilio sheets still cause the ink to crack and blister, but not as badly. These may actually be usable. Close examination of the surface shows the cracking to be more-or-less confined to the black ink, while the red seems to be fine. The image is a little sharper than with the Lexmark, too.

More tomorrow when I can get three layers of acrylic sprayed...