What’s Discontinued and what is new from Estes!

[Arley Davis]

Since no one has done it yet I thought that I would, so here is a list of what has been discontinued and what is new from Estes.

Taken from the 2006 to 2007 catalog the following rockets have been discontinued.

1434 Max Trax W/ Altitude Tracking Capsule (RTF Starter Set)
2193 Eagle X-Prize rocket (Skill Level 1)
2188 Canadian Arrow X-Prize rocket (Skill Level 3)

As you can see only 3 kits have been discontinued this year. And as you can also see there has been a lot of new stuff added, New kits that are in the new catalog that have been out for some time are followed by the following symbol ***

(RTF Starter Set’s)
1412 X-15 RTF Starter Set with Existing RTF rocket!
1414 Spin Control - Adjust & counts the spins!

(RTF Launch Set)
1899 Astrovision – Takes Digital movies & Photos!

(E2X Launch Set)
1485 Nitro – Mighty Mite rocket

(RTF Rocket)
1894 Sky Hawker
1895 Patriarch – Clear fins
1896 Puma
1807 Snitch *** – Flying Saucer rocket has returned this year!

(E2X Rockets)
2027 Pop Fly - A ball is launched atop a bat shaper rocket!
2029 Converter - A remake of the Screw Machine!
2168 Metalizer - A remake of the Silver Chrome Dome!
2169 Dragonite - Snaps together

(Skill Level 1 Rockets)
0651 Der Red Max – A Bring Back of a classic 1972 kit!
1960 Nova Payloader - A 2004 Bring Back
2037 D Region Tomahawk – 1:5 Scale NASA Sounding rocket!
2050 Super Neon – A Bring Back from1991 with new look!
2145 Porta-Pot Shot *** - Novelty rocket
2121 Liquidator – includes a water-tight payload capsule!

(Skill Level 2 Rocket)
2146 Rock-it Stone Age Flyer - Prehistoric Style rocket

(E Engine Powered Rocket)
1295 Mean Machine – A bring back improved to fly on E Power!

(Estes Specialty Products)
1863 Hydrogen Fuel Rocket set With Lights and Sound
1864 X-100 Talon Air Power Rocket Plane

If I made no mistakes this is what is new in the 2007 catalog. As you can see their needs to be more kits above skill level 1, anyway that’s my opinion, will we have to wait and see what’s coming out over the next few months.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

(Skill Level 1 Rockets)
0651 Der Red Max – A Bring Back of a classic 1972 kit!
1960 Nova Payloader - A 2004 Bring Back
2037 D Region Tomahawk – 1:5 Scale NASA Sounding rocket!
2050 Super Neon – A Bring Back from1991 with new look!
2145 Porta-Pot Shot *** - Novelty rocket
2121 Liquidator – includes a water-tight payload capsule!


Nice list, Arley, but I have a request. Can we not use the "Bring Back" phrase over here? That grates like chalk on a blackboard. "Reissue" has a much less third grade feel to it. :D

[Ltvscout]

Since no one has done it yet I thought that I would, so here is a list of what has been discontinued and what is new from Estes.
I did that a couple of weeks ago in this post:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=1526

I only went over rocketry related items though, not their toys.

[Arley Davis]

Bring Back is what Estes call’s them not me, I personally would use the word re-release, also this is a complete list comparing the 2 catalogs.

I also actually did this Thread for the Estes Forum and then decided to post it in the other Forums since it is a complete list.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Bring Back is what Estes call’s them not me,


I know. I hang out over there as well. This is just one of those terms that we just need to crush like a grape now, before it gets to be thought of as standard terminology for the hobby. ;)

[Royatl]

I know. I hang out over there as well. This is just one of those terms that we just need to crush like a grape now, before it gets to be thought of as standard terminology for the hobby. ;)

too late.. Estes has put the phrase in the catalog.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

too late.. Estes has put the phrase in the catalog.

Well, I don't know about you, but I'm falling on my sword. :mad:

[Arley Davis]

Someone in Rocketry Forum said I should state the difference in the Starter sets and the Launch sets, so I did here as will.

[SAABMaven]

Good Moring!

Just wanted to thank you folks for showing me that there were a lot more games in town, than Estes & Centuri; they _were_ the only game when I went to college (and hobbies ceased along with any real learning and exploration).

Now my son is showing a keen interest in 'Rocket Ships' as he calls them; which is my excuse to 'bring back' ;) my old hobby and justify it to his mother.

Well, I have to tell you; Estes have changed. They've come out with more flashy stuff than I remember (a flying baseball-bat-and-ball comes to mind); but the selection is narrower, and the emphasis on learning and developing craftsmanship... seems to be gone.

An Astron Andromeda kit (same as the kit that I built in the late 1970s but don't know what became of it; maybe I gave it all away) recenty _started_ bidding on eBay for $200. If that gives you any indication of the emotional investment that folks have with ol' Vern Estes.

But now Estes products are all 'Made in China'. The quality is quite poor, packages are missing things. It makes me wonder when the workers got laid off. The nearest hobby shop is fifty miles away; so I won't be going back for an exchange, I simply won't be going back to Estes...

So far I am impressed by FlisKits... appear to be made here in North America unless I'm mistaken by very creative folks. Also Semroc Aeronautics. Both have the spare bits to allow for our imaginations. Any other interesting vendors that you could recommend to a newbie/oldbie?

Cheers,
Rob in Vermont
(open fields & dark skies)

[dwmzmm]

You also have PDRocketry, Hawks Hobby, Red River Rocketry, Thrustline Aerospace, Art
Applewhite Rockets, Balsa Machining Service (BMS), Squirrels Works, etc., among many others who are family owned/run and use "made in the USA" parts. Their service is simply
outstanding! Also check out those who deal with the larger kits (Sheri's Hot Rockets comes
to mind immediately!), and there are many others in this category, too (but I personally fly
mainly the "low" power stuff). You already mentioned Flis Kits and SEMROC. There's more
than just Estes and Quest out there. But don't be too harsh on Estes; they're just following
the current mass marketing trends to reach those who otherwise wouldn't get interested
in the hobby in the first place. Estes does have its own, highly visited web blog that only
started recently and, believe it or not, they're actually listening to the desires/needs of
the old timers like myself.

[SAABMaven]

Thanks Dave, that was a very thoughtful and useful reply. My nerves are admittedly a bit raw about too much stuff coming from China. It wasn't easy to buy a decent pair of boots for my son this past Winter, boots that didn't leak or kill his feet, and/or left and right were two different sizes. Everything was from China. I finally had to eBay a pair of boots for him from En Zed.

If I might, I have a really dumb question that has not been answered in about 40 minutes of googling... how does one decode the tube B-sizes? For example is a B-50 fifty millimetres? Looking to plan and cost out future projects.

Already have the motor pulse/duration graphs... very useful stuff that I never thought about as a teenaged nerd building rockets on a corner card table in a small NYC apartment.

Cheers,
Rob in Vermont

[John Brohm]

<some stuff snipped>

If I might, I have a really dumb question that has not been answered in about 40 minutes of googling... how does one decode the tube B-sizes? For example is a B-50 fifty millimetres? Looking to plan and cost out future projects.

Already have the motor pulse/duration graphs... very useful stuff that I never thought about as a teenaged nerd building rockets on a corner card table in a small NYC apartment.

Cheers,
Rob in Vermont

Rob;

If you're referring to Estes, then it can be noted that there's no physically direct correlation between Estes' older "standard" BT designations and the physical size/diameter of the tube. Other suppliers have gone this route (Centuri, for example), but not Estes. Estes initially had just a couple of body tube types (BT-1, BT-2, and BT-3), but somewhere around 1962/63 there was a need to create additional tube sizes with all of the new kits that Estes was developing. It was at this time that the present BT designation scheme came into being, basically a decade system that grouped similar sized tubes (more or less, eg: BT-50/BT-51/BT-52), with a few Estes exceptions/anomalies thrown in here and there. About the only real point of consistency in the decade numbering scheme was/is the larger the BT designation, the larger the diameter of the tube, but this really only holds true with the older tubes we've come to regard as more or less standard.

In recent times, Estes has conjured up new tube sizes, and these have tended towards designations with a value linked to the diameter of the tube. Some examples are BT-1090 (OD = 1.090"); BT-1835 (OD = 1.835"); and HBT-1000 (OD = 1.000"). A more curious example is the relatively new BT-200 found in #2191 Space Ship One. It's clearly smaller than BT-100, having an OD of exactly 2.00" - just smaller than the older ST-20/BT-67 (2.04") that Estes picked up with the Centuri acquisition.

Hope this helps;

[barone]

Thanks Dave, that was a very thoughtful and useful reply. My nerves are admittedly a bit raw about too much stuff coming from China. It wasn't easy to buy a decent pair of boots for my son this past Winter, boots that didn't leak or kill his feet, and/or left and right were two different sizes. Everything was from China. I finally had to eBay a pair of boots for him from En Zed.

If I might, I have a really dumb question that has not been answered in about 40 minutes of googling... how does one decode the tube B-sizes? For example is a B-50 fifty millimetres? Looking to plan and cost out future projects.

Already have the motor pulse/duration graphs... very useful stuff that I never thought about as a teenaged nerd building rockets on a corner card table in a small NYC apartment.

Cheers,
Rob in VermontROb,

Tagging onto John's comments and more related to your question.......There is no correlation between the BT-50 and it's size. It's commonly referred to as a 24mm tube (since it's the size usually used for 24mm motors like the Estes Ds and Es). BT-20 is considered 18mm (A thru C size motors) and BT-5 is 13mm (T motors)). The best thing to do is download a copy of one of the older Estes catalogs that list the tube sizes so you can plan future projects. Or, you can use the body tube listing at SEMROC that provides all the sizes and you can cross them to other more common BT sizes that were used for Centuri.

[Arley Davis]

This is the best place to show the different Tube sizes from the past For Estes, Centuri, and Quest.

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/body_tubes.html

The most common Estes/Centuri were for example the BT-5/ST-5 =.515” ID. The letters after the size on Estes was the length of the tube, for example the Estes BT-5BJ was 2” long and .515” ID. The Centuri ST512 was 12” long and .515” ID, the number after the tube size was the length.
Estes Stopped adding the numbers to their kit parts list many years ago.

The most common used tubes are listed below.

BT-5/ST-5 =.515” ID (13MM)

BT-20 = .710” ID (18MM)
ST-7 = .715” ID

BT-30 = .725” ID

ST-8 = .865” ID

BT-50 = .958” ID (24MM)

ST-10 = 1.00” ID

BT-55 = 1.283” ID

BT-56 = 1.304” ID
ST-13 = 1.300” ID

BT-60/ST-16 = 1.600” ID

ST-20 = 2.000” ID

BT-70 = 2.175” ID

BT-80 = 2.560” ID

BT-101 = 3.869” ID

There were others by Estes but they were not as commonly used and also Estes after acquiring North Coast Rocketry started using there body tubes in some of Estes’s rockets, for Example the Big Daddy’s Body Tube and Nose Cone are NCR parts that have thicker walls.

[Arley Davis]

Here are some of the Web sites that dwmzmm has mentioned. Also if you wish to clone some of the older Kits just ask and I will list the sites for plans and parts.

Estes Forum!
http://www.estesrockets.com/forums/index.php#1

FlisKits and Semroc!
http://www.fliskits.com/index.htm
http://www.semroc.com/Store/Scripts/default.asp

Many others!
http://www.sunward1.com/

http://www.customrocketcompany.com/index.html

http://www.squirrel-works.com/

http://www.advancedrocketry.com/

http://www.apogeerockets.com/rocket_kits.asp

http://members.aol.com/RobEdmonds/Edmonds.html

http://www.cybertravelog.com/qcr/

http://www.artapplewhite.com/

http://neubauerrockets.com/store/index.html

http://www.thrustaero.com/index.html

http://www.cosmodromerocketry.com/

http://www.siriusrocketry.com/

http://www.pdrocketry.com/

Here is a great place to purchase Kits!
http://www.unclemikesrocketshack.com/
There are others, including Mid and High Power.

[SAABMaven]

Thanks Arley, Don & John for the excellent information !!!