Production of new Semroc (Centuri ) Kits

[johnnwwa]

Let's start a conversation about new Semroc (Centuri ) kits.

I realize that these might not be at the top of the list.And I know many others are higher on the list but I thought I'd get the ball rolling . So here goes.

Sky Devil #3040
The reason I like this little rocket is the muti-choice of fins in one kit. This kit would lend itself to bulk packs sold to educators , Clubs etc.

Excalibur

Groove tube

Along with these two kits would be a seperate kit.

No. 8 Booster Unit.

I have many more wants as far as kits go but these three pretty simple kits could be added to the Semroc line in a fairly short period of time. Maybe within a years time :)

Your thought?

John

[CPMcGraw]

Let's start a conversation about new Semroc (Centuri ) kits. ...I have many more wants...in a fairly short period of time. Your thought?

Yes.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Asap. ;)

[Tau Zero]

I have many more wants as far as kits go but these three pretty simple kits could be added to the Semroc line in a fairly short period of time. May within a years time :)

Your thought?...is...

Who's gonna write the instruction manuals? :eek: :rolleyes: ;) :D


Cheers,

[Carl@Semroc]

...is...

Who's gonna write the instruction manuals? :eek: :rolleyes: ;) :D


Cheers,Now THAT sounds like the voice (or SHOUT) of experience!

[CPMcGraw]

Now THAT sounds like the voice (or SHOUT) of experience!

And you likely noticed the ear-splitting silence coming from my direction, too... :rolleyes: :D

It's so easy to think of what we'd like to see packaged up, but then reality bites us in the ... shadows... Those instruction booklets take five times as much work to get them done as it takes to get the model itself developed and flown.

[James Pierson]

I'll do it.
I just got a new box of crayons :D . It will be quick and painless as long I don't keep breaking them.

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

[Tau Zero]

Now THAT sounds like the voice (or SHOUT) of experience!It's so easy to think of what we'd like to see packaged up, but then reality bites us in the ... shadows... Those instruction booklets take five times as much work to get them done as it takes to get the model itself developed and flown.(Teal'c voice from Stargate SG-1) "Indeed." :rolleyes:

--Or if you're like me, 10 or 20 times as much work. :eek: :mad:


Grumbling,

[johnnwwa]

My plane is going down in flames i.e. this thread (negative remark) The good news is I can use my seat cushion for a floation device ( Positive remark )
Ok guy's this is going no where I get it ok. So let's move on.

I try to put a postive spin on all this things in life .

Thanks Crig McGraw Your post was the proper reply."It's so easy to think of what we'd like to see packaged up, but then reality bites us in the... shadows...Those instruction booklets take five times as much work to get them done as it takes to get the model developed and flown"

I had a boss that use to tell his employees this "Don't just bring me a another problem .I have enough already. Got a problem , bring me a solution to the problem"

So If the instruction booklets take so long to produce what is the solution to the problem.
Streamline the booklets
Review and change the method of producing instructions booklets
Invest in new or better software programs to do the same job. i.e easier faster
How about some POSITVE INPUT . You have a better Idea lets here it.

John

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

My plane is going down in flames i.e. this thread (negative remark) The good news is I can use my seat cushion for a floation device ( Positive remark )
Ok guy's this is going no where I get it ok. So let's move on.

I try to put a postive spin on all this things in life .

Thanks Crig McGraw Your post was the proper reply."It's so easy to think of what we'd like to see packaged up, but then reality bites us in the... shadows...Those instruction booklets take five times as much work to get them done as it takes to get the model developed and flown"

I had a boss that use to tell his employees this "Don't just bring me a another problem .I have enough already. Got a problem , bring me a solution to the problem"

So If the instruction booklets take so long to produce what is the solution to the problem.
Streamline the booklets
Review and change the method of producing instructions booklets
Invest in new or better software programs to do the same job. i.e easier faster
How about some POSITVE INPUT . You have a better Idea lets here it.

John

"Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves. Woof, woof, woof. That's my dog impression." :rolleyes:

[James Pierson]

johnnwwa

So If the instruction booklets take so long to produce what is the solution to the problem.
Streamline the booklets
Review and change the method of producing instructions booklets
Invest in new or better software programs to do the same job. i.e easier faster
How about some POSITVE INPUT . You have a better Idea lets here it.

I totally agree. Why do we have to be so detailed about the instructions? If anyone have ever built a Launch Pad mid power kit you know that the instruction are only 2-3 pages, in a very simple format, with a small detailed drawing and thats all. I can see a kit like the Satun 1B needing alot more but not many other designs. Besides if a design gets too complicated no one will built it, so it should be changed to simplify the building process for the builder.
:) What I was really hoping for here at SVDT was a pool of clip art and text to draw from so that all designers could more effiecently create thier own instruction. Also the big one is the expert advice and review that comes form all the team members.

My 2 cents:

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Besides if a design gets too complicated no one will built it, so it should be changed to simplify the building process for the builder.


Nah, I'll give it a try. Complicated instructions just make the finished product that much more of a source of pride.
Plus, when I finish a kit whose instructions are known to be complicated, EVERYONE knows they can do it. ;)

"Arf, arf, arf. That's my other dog impression."

[Sheryl@Semroc]

I'll do it.
I just got a new box of crayons :D . It will be quick and painless as long I don't keep breaking them.

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

I love that idea. Wish it was that simple. Had a good laugh to start my day. Thank you James.

Sheryl

[barone]

I totally agree. Why do we have to be so detailed about the instructions? If anyone have ever built a Launch Pad mid power kit you know that the instruction are only 2-3 pages, in a very simple format, with a small detailed drawing and thats all. I can see a kit like the Satun 1B needing alot more but not many other designs. Besides if a design gets too complicated no one will built it, so it should be changed to simplify the building process for the builder.
:) What I was really hoping for here at SVDT was a pool of clip art and text to draw from so that all designers could more effiecently create thier own instruction. Also the big one is the expert advice and review that comes form all the team members.

My 2 cents:

James Pierson
NAR# 77907Okay....here's some change....
The instructions need to be detailed enough that someone who has never built a rocket can use them. Sure, some of us who have been building for years don't even use the instructions (was Bill mentioned :D ). But the producer has to also target the novice. And the Semroc instructions aren't just instructions, they're a history lesson. So, I don't think changing the format is a solution but maybe changing how it's all brought together. Maybe some generic instructions (as James stated) that apply to most rockets that can be cut and pasted into the instructions (the same with generic drawings). Then, perhaps, those who wish a particular kit to be manufactured, obtain the software (or one that can be imported into what ever Carl is using) and start writing. That opens the writing staff from maybe one (I don't know who writes the instructions for Carl) to potentially hundreds. Of course, a format would need to be developed for everyone to use so all the instructions follow a basic one. And a list of who's writing what so there isn't a duplication of effort (also allows some collaboration among members). And of course, coordination with Carl to make sure there are or are existing parts for the kit. Heck, it may not be even finacially viable to kit a model with instructions.

I guess the bottom line is simply if the instructions are the biggest hurdle to producing a kit, then we are a resource that can be used to get them written. Just give us the generic stuff, a format, and a way to coordinate the work and I believe the members of this forum can make it happen.

[Tau Zero]

Let's start a conversation about new Semroc (Centuri ) kits. [SNIP]

Sky Devil #3040

Excalibur

Groove tube

No. 8 Booster Unit.

I have many more wants as far as kits go but these three pretty simple kits could be added to the Semroc line in a fairly short period of time. Maybe within a years time :)John,

Perhaps a quicker way to get these out would be to do "cc" (Carbon Copy) versions where the parts are already kitted up, and all you have to do is download the instructions from, say, JimZ or Ye Olde Rocket Plans (YORP). :cool:

That's probably the easiest way to do it, :D and frankly, the only "around the bush" alternative to having to Start From Zero.


As far as my earlier comments are concerned, they weren't intended as negative, but realistic. (I'm a TV reporter. I can spot "negative" in *real* short order. ;) )

Heck, I'm your Positive Spin Guy. :p

Cheers,

[johnnwwa]

John,

Perhaps a quicker way to get these out would be to do "cc" (Carbon Copy) versions where the parts are already kitted up, and all you have to do is download the instructions from, say, JimZ or Ye Olde Rocket Plans (YORP). :cool:

That's probably the easiest way to do it, :D and frankly, the only "around the bush" alternative to having to Start From Zero.


As far as my earlier comments are concerned, they weren't intended as negative, but realistic. (I'm a TV reporter. I can spot "negative" in *real* short order. ;) )

Heck, I'm your Positive Spin Guy. :p

Cheers,

Centuri Guy
Understand thanks.

I have been thinking along similar lines only keep the instructions in house under a password or the like so the buyer of a kits can go to Semroc and download the kit instructions. I think you need to maintain some control over who can and who can't download the instructions. Atleast until the kit goes OOP . Then JimZ or YORP would have a file PDF etc. .
But you still have to create the first set of instructions.

BAR
John

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Centuri Guy
Understand thanks.

I have been thinking along similar lines only keep the instructions in house under a password or the like so the buyer of a kits can go to Semroc and download the kit instructions. I think you need to maintain some control over who can and who can't download the instructions. Atleast until the kit goes OOP . Then JimZ or YORP would have a file PDF etc. .
But you still have to create the first set of instructions.

BAR
John

Madcow does just the opposite. You can go and download the kit instructions before you ever make a purchase. Seems to me that having the ability to go over the instructions would help a prospective buyer decide if the kit was in their skill range or over their head.

[Carl@Semroc]

Let's start a conversation about new Semroc (Centuri ) kits.

Sky Devil #3040 Several of the fin choices lend themselves too much to breakage. We also have not done a non-laser-cut fin yet! That mnight really confuse someone. :)
ExcaliburGreat looking kit. It on our list. I have an Excalibur II, but not the single only version. Ours will probably be balsa instead of fiber. I also have an SLS Excalibur in the works.
Groove tubeAnother that was in the works, but it is marginally stable. Trying to avoid that again.
No. 8 Booster Unit.Have one of these and have BOM, but loss of almost all booster engines put our two-stage stuff on hold.

[Initiator001]

I have an Excalibur II, but not the single only version. Ours will probably be balsa instead of fiber. I also have an SLS Excalibur in the works.


Yes and YES!!! :D

An SLS Excalibur! Details, please.

It will use an ST-20 with laser cut fin slots for the lower body tube (hint, hint)? ;)

Bob "Just building ANOTHER Nike Ram clone" Sanford

[Carl@Semroc]

Okay....here's some change....
The instructions need to be detailed enough that someone who has never built a rocket can use them. Sure, some of us who have been building for years don't even use the instructions (was Bill mentioned :D ). But the producer has to also target the novice. And the Semroc instructions aren't just instructions, they're a history lesson. One of the things that struck me about the early instructions was that they were written in the "Heath-kit" style so ANYONE could put the kit together. It is much too detailed for someone that has built a few kits, but most experienced modelers just look at the pictures anyway. The "history lesson" sometimes takes the most time doing the research. Some, like the Aerobee-Hi, took several days looking through old literature to find missing details. But the lesson is important to me. There are kits and people and companies behind the kits that I want to be remembered. So, I don't think changing the format is a solution but maybe changing how it's all brought together. Maybe some generic instructions (as James stated) that apply to most rockets that can be cut and pasted into the instructions (the same with generic drawings). Then, perhaps, those who wish a particular kit to be manufactured, obtain the software (or one that can be imported into what ever Carl is using) and start writing. That opens the writing staff from maybe one (I don't know who writes the instructions for Carl) So far, Carl does!to potentially hundreds. Of course, a format would need to be developed for everyone to use so all the instructions follow a basic one. And a list of who's writing what so there isn't a duplication of effort (also allows some collaboration among members). And of course, coordination with Carl to make sure there are or are existing parts for the kit. Heck, it may not be even finacially viable to kit a model with instructions.

I guess the bottom line is simply if the instructions are the biggest hurdle to producing a kit, then we are a resource that can be used to get them written. Just give us the generic stuff, a format, and a way to coordinate the work and I believe the members of this forum can make it happen.Craig and Jay have a pretty good idea what it takes. It is easy to get bogged down in details. Most of my time is spent creating an accurate model of all the parts in 3D Studio Max and then doing a RockSim version. All the 2D drawings now are done with a plug-in to 3DSM that generates the illustrations. As an example, it took weeks to input every ring, tube, laser-cut part, etc. for the Mars Lander and the Saturn 1B. The actual illustrations took about ten minutes each to output and clean up with PaintShop Pro or CorelDraw. In our early days, each drawing was done by hand, taking sometimes a half a day for each one. We have come a long way! It actually took less time to do the illustrations for the Mars Lander than it did for the Hydra VII.

The final edit of instructions may be a good place for using the talent in this group. After I am through with each set of instructions, Bruce and Sheryl go over them, building a model from them and checking for "continuity." Problems at this point are things like a drawing that shows a launch lug, many steps before it is glued on. Tom Beach found the missing step on the Mars Lander where the bottom of the launch lug was cut off. That required going back through many pictures to remove the extra 1 inch of launch lug that was not supposed to be there. It also changed the cover art, which showed the protruding launch lug! Extra eyes and grey matter is always welcome and appreciated.

[Carl@Semroc]

Perhaps a quicker way to get these out would be to do "cc" (Carbon Copy) versions where the parts are already kitted up, and all you have to do is download the instructions from, say, JimZ or Ye Olde Rocket Plans (YORP). :cool: We have backed off from the cc: kits. We get most of our complaints about them. Many hobby stores don't want them because some customers do not want to download the instructions. We still get emails about the "missing" instructions. The other complaint is that there is not enough detail to build the kit. Someone said the online instructions were "not up to Semroc's usual high standards!" This was about Vern's Space Plane instructions. :confused:

It may be because all three of our cc: kits are boost gliders; early boost gliders that were not great by today's standards, but all historically significant.

[Carl@Semroc]

Madcow does just the opposite. You can go and download the kit instructions before you ever make a purchase. Seems to me that having the ability to go over the instructions would help a prospective buyer decide if the kit was in their skill range or over their head.We do have some of our later instructions online as pdf files. Mars Lander and Saturn 1B are examples. I want to put all our instuctions online, but it takes so long to do it. Anyone interested in converting 50 or so MS Publisher files to PDF?

[Tau Zero]

An SLS Excalibur! Details, please.

It will use an ST-20 with laser cut fin slots for the lower body tube (hint, hint)? ;)ROTFL!

Actually, Bob, if Carl sticks with his usual 175% standard for SLS upscales, it would most likely use LT-125 and LT-150 tubing, and measure just over 45 inches long.

--But that's just my extrapolation. ;) :cool:


Cheers,

[Carl@Semroc]

ROTFL!

Actually, Bob, if Carl sticks with his usual 175% standard for SLS upscales, it would most likely use LT-125 and LT-150 tubing, and measure just over 45 inches long.

--But that's just my extrapolation. ;) :cool:


Cheers,Bob KNOWS that. He is just nudging me to hurry up and get around to making a mandrel to slot ST-20 tubes!

You do have the SLS concept down pretty good!

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Anyone interested in converting 50 or so MS Publisher files to PDF?

If you show me how, I'll be glad to do it.

[Tau Zero]

You do have the SLS concept down pretty good!Here's my secret weapon:

http://www.rocketshoppe.com/info/SemrocEstes.pdf


Pay close attention to "page 2." :eek: :rolleyes: ;) :D


Cheers,

[Initiator001]

Bob KNOWS that. He is just nudging me to hurry up and get around to making a mandrel to slot ST-20 tubes!

You got me, Carl! ;)

Bob

[barone]

We do have some of our later instructions online as pdf files. Mars Lander and Saturn 1B are examples. I want to put all our instuctions online, but it takes so long to do it. Anyone interested in converting 50 or so MS Publisher files to PDF?
Carl,

I've downloaded the trial version of Adobe so I've got 29 days to do it if you want to send me the files....50 divided by 29.....That's about two a day ;)

[Ltvscout]

Carl,

I've downloaded the trial version of Adobe so I've got 29 days to do it if you want to send me the files....50 divided by 29.....That's about two a day ;)
I sent him a PM offering to do this the other day but haven't heard back from him yet.

[barone]

I sent him a PM offering to do this the other day but haven't heard back from him yet.
I think he was busy packing my orders.....no, that's Sheryl. ;)

I'm sure they probably get pretty busy there. I'm using the trail version to combine some of my other files into PDFs. But the size of the file doesn't change much so maybe I'm doing something wrong :confused:

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

II'm using the trail version to combine some of my other files into PDFs. But the size of the file doesn't change much so maybe I'm doing something wrong :confused:

You must have the "Rawhide" edition. I think the "Chisholm" edition is the one that shrinks files. :rolleyes: :D ;)

[barone]

You must have the "Rawhide" edition. I think the "Chisholm" edition is the one that shrinks files. :rolleyes: :D ;)You know...I caught that typo when I previewed the post and thought I fixed it...... ;)

[CPMcGraw]

We do have some of our later instructions online as pdf files. Mars Lander and Saturn 1B are examples. I want to put all our instuctions online, but it takes so long to do it. Anyone interested in converting 50 or so MS Publisher files to PDF?

I had to look at my software to see if I had what was needed, and sure enough, I do. You can toss some my way.

[Carl@Semroc]

I appreciate all the offers to help convert the files. I probably should have done a little more homework. I started putting them in an ftp area and tried one on another machine. The files are BIG and they have embedded OLE links to graphics files spread out in other directories. In other words, the MS Publisher files would not work by themselves without locating all the fonts and images and setting them up in a similar file structure to the one on our server. ARG!!

In any case, while I have tried to figure that out, I have about half the files converted. I am not going to use embedded links in the future!

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

I appreciate all the offers to help convert the files. I probably should have done a little more homework. I started putting them in an ftp area and tried one on another machine. The files are BIG and they have embedded OLE links to graphics files spread out in other directories. In other words, the MS Publisher files would not work by themselves without locating all the fonts and images and setting them up in a similar file structure to the one on our server. ARG!!

In any case, while I have tried to figure that out, I have about half the files converted. I am not going to use embedded links in the future!

I did the Mark II, Centurion, and Snipe Hunter last night and today using my instruction booklets. If they'll help, let me know and I'll send them along.