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MarkB.
04-26-2021, 06:36 PM
Comrades:

Anybody got a Vashon/Estes Baron (5102) they'd be willing to scan? Or an Astro-Gnat (5123)? I checked JimZ and YORS and they got nothin'. I didn't find anything in the archives here either. I don't want the kit, just a scan of the parts so I can build and fly my own.

I'm sorta between major projects and a glider or two sounded fun, especially some rare/unusual ones.

barone
04-26-2021, 07:33 PM
Comrades:

Anybody got a Vashon/Estes Baron (5102) they'd be willing to scan? Or an Astro-Gnat (5123)? I checked JimZ and YORS and they got nothin'. I didn't find anything in the archives here either. I don't want the kit, just a scan of the parts so I can build and fly my own.

I'm sorta between major projects and a glider or two sounded fun, especially some rare/unusual ones.
I've got the plans for the Gnat but they are over 2MB so I can't post them. Don't know where I got them from. PM with an email and I'll send them to you.

ghrocketman
04-26-2021, 07:35 PM
How 'boutt a Flyin' Stovepipe from MRN ?

barone
04-26-2021, 07:36 PM
I think these are the same as the Gnat......

barone
04-26-2021, 07:44 PM
No....they are different.....

Ltvscout
04-26-2021, 07:55 PM
I've got the plans for the Gnat but they are over 2MB so I can't post them. Don't know where I got them from. PM with an email and I'll send them to you.
Send them to me so I can get them posted. Thanks!

barone
04-26-2021, 10:04 PM
Send them to me so I can get them posted. Thanks!
Done!

MarkB.
04-26-2021, 10:56 PM
Comrades:

Don's instructions are great and they do contain the dimensions of the fuselage for both Baron and Gnat. Mine will have spruce fuses and I've dug out the Monokote and iron. The Monokote worked great on the X-13 I already built so I'm looking forward to using it on these two.

The Astro-Gnat is a V-tail with a ten inch wingspan and what appears to be a 2:1 taper, swept leading edge/straight trailing edge planform.

The Baron is a twin tail with a twelve inch wingspan and an apparent 2:1 double-taper planform. I'm not sure about the 2:1 as it might be less. It also has built-in negative stab incidence on a double taper stab.

Here's the ninfinger link to the Estes 1973 catalog: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/estes73/73est46.html

So, if someone's got one or both in a box, we need wing and stab dimensions and the dihedral jig dimensions and we've got what we need to recreate these. If I were guessing, I'd bet the wings were 3/32 balsa with a 3" center chord on Baron and 2.5" on Astro-Gnat. Stabs were 1/16" balsa

stefanj
04-27-2021, 09:33 AM
How 'boutt a Flyin' Stovepipe from MRN ?
About 20 years back I went to a LUNAR launch out in Livermore.

One of the attendees had a Flying Stovepipe.

I told him how neat it was when people showed up with unusual old designs.

It turned the guy was the designer! Not as old as I expected.

blackshire
04-28-2021, 07:02 PM
Comrades:

Don's instructions are great and they do contain the dimensions of the fuselage for both Baron and Gnat. Mine will have spruce fuses and I've dug out the Monokote and iron. The Monokote worked great on the X-13 I already built so I'm looking forward to using it on these two.

The Astro-Gnat is a V-tail with a ten inch wingspan and what appears to be a 2:1 taper, swept leading edge/straight trailing edge planform.

The Baron is a twin tail with a twelve inch wingspan and an apparent 2:1 double-taper planform. I'm not sure about the 2:1 as it might be less. It also has built-in negative stab incidence on a double taper stab.

Here's the ninfinger link to the Estes 1973 catalog: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/estes73/73est46.html

So, if someone's got one or both in a box, we need wing and stab dimensions and the dihedral jig dimensions and we've got what we need to recreate these. If I were guessing, I'd bet the wings were 3/32 balsa with a 3" center chord on Baron and 2.5" on Astro-Gnat. Stabs were 1/16" balsaThe boosters of all of these Cold Propellant boost-gliders (the X-13 [is its glider identical, or nearly so, to the Estes Firefly B/G?], Gnat, and Baron) can be reproduced quite accurately using the 0.976" O.D. BT-50 tubing (filled, sanded, and painted to match the original 1" O.D. boosters' motor, parachute tube, and nose cone colors) and the Alpha III plastic nose cone, whose shape is similar to that of the original models (it's not an exact shape match, but good enough for [probably] most folks). Besides that, shorter-delay 18 mm black powder motors (such as the 1/2A6-2, B4-2, B6-2, C6-3 [and maybe the A3-2T and/or A10-3T, with an adapter mount--or the red plastic split 13 mm/18 mm motor adapter sleeve]) would probably work well. Using appropriate total impulse & delay 13 mm motors would also permit simulated Cold Propellant motor nozzle skirts (made of card stock, say, perhaps flame-proofed with sodium silicate ["water glass," as Jetex/Jet-X/Rapier modelers used/use on their model planes' rolled paper--or rolled thin sheet balsa--jet exhaust ducts]) to be used on these "near-clone" B/G boosters.

MJD
08-30-2023, 10:12 AM
I guess having an Estes Black Baron still sealed in the original shrink wrap doesn't help, I'm not opening it for this even if I am curious.

ghrocketman
08-30-2023, 11:13 AM
I'd say fly them on the correct R12 propellant if you can find it. :chuckle:

MarkB.
09-01-2023, 07:37 PM
You know . . . .

On some level, saying you have a Black Baron still sealed in the package is just taunting.


All kidding aside, if you do decide to open it and fly it, as GH suggested, please take some measurements.

tbzep
09-02-2023, 08:43 AM
I guess having an Estes Black Baron still sealed in the original shrink wrap doesn't help, I'm not opening it for this even if I am curious.
I'm not familiar with that one. The Coldpower kit was just an Estes Baron in my catalogs, not a Black Baron. Do you have a pic or a reference?

rraeford
09-15-2023, 03:21 PM
The plans, including scans of wings/fins is on JimZ site.

MarkB.
09-16-2023, 08:45 AM
Couldn't find it on JimZ.

What was it under?

And yes, it's just Baron. From the Coldpower line.

5x7
09-16-2023, 08:53 AM
https://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/est5102.htm

Don’t know where it is on the site, found by googling ‘Jimz Baron’.

rraeford
09-16-2023, 09:23 AM
Number 5102
The Baron

Joe Wooten
09-16-2023, 06:32 PM
I'd say fly them on the correct R12 propellant if you can find it. :chuckle:

I have 2 cans of R12 left over from the early 80's.

Ez2cDave
10-14-2023, 04:44 PM
When in doubt, KICK ASS . . . LOL !

https://plans.rocketshoppe.com/vashon/vas5071-1/vas5071-1.pdf

http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/vashon/vashon.pdf

Dave F.

Ez2cDave
10-14-2023, 04:59 PM
After looking at the X-13 GNAT, it appears that it uses the MINI-BOMARC Wing, Rudder, and Elevator, converted into a glider ( dihedral, etc. ).

https://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/est0805.htm

Dave F.

MJD
10-14-2023, 07:17 PM
You know . . . .

On some level, saying you have a Black Baron still sealed in the package is just taunting.


All kidding aside, if you do decide to open it and fly it, as GH suggested, please take some measurements.

Yeah I confess I was enjoying a bit of a nyah nyah moment there.. it's one of the very few genuine collectibles I have. In truth I have no intention of opening it. Besides they never worked worth beans to begin with - I had one in my teens. I'll keep the wrap on it for display for now, and maybe auction it off one day, we'll see..

It would be fun to build a standard motor powered clone, I just downloaded the Jimz plans.

Ez2cDave
10-14-2023, 07:42 PM
Yeah I confess I was enjoying a bit of a nyah nyah moment there.. it's one of the very few genuine collectibles I have. In truth I have no intention of opening it. Besides they never worked worth beans to begin with - I had one in my teens. I'll keep the wrap on it for display for now, and maybe auction it off one day, we'll see..

It would be fun to build a standard motor powered clone, I just downloaded the Jimz plans.

To get the Baron to have a decent glide, you have to put a flat-bottom airfoil on the Wing.