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William Drake
07-30-2007, 11:19 AM
Hello,

My 5 yr old and I purchased an old Estes Citation Quasar starter kit from 1972 (unopened and still in its original shipping box). We built it yesterday, and he's itching to fire it off today. We have never built or launched a rocket before. The kit contains 3 A-3 rocket engines.

Is it safe to launch the Quasar with its original engines, or should we purchase new engines from a hobby shop? I have been told by a couple of chemical engineers (but who have no rocket experience) that explosives become less stable over time, and that the old rocket engines may not perform as originally intended (perhaps burning faster or hotter or simply exploding on the launch pad rather than providing upward thrust, etc.).

Can anyone provide any guidance as to the safety of the old rocket engines? If we can not use the original engines, what replacement engines should we ask for at the hobby shop?

Best regards,

William

ghrocketman
07-30-2007, 11:25 AM
If engines are stored properly (i.e. no large temp cycling such as from 20F to 120F) they will be fine for several DECADES.
I have several engines from the 1960's that I regularly use, but they were stored under controlled conditions (room temp, low humidity)
If you do not know the history of how they were stored (a garage is NOT a good place), get some new engines.
The engines you want are Estes type A8-3 (flies in a Quasar about to 300')
For later flights, you may want to go to an Estes B6-4, which will go to about 600'.

William Drake
07-30-2007, 11:33 AM
Hello, ghrocketman,

Thanks for the fast response and needed details!!

The documentation with the Quasar stated that it should fly 1500 ft high and at speeds up to 300 mph. Is that too high/fast for a first launch? I notice that your reccomendation is to start with an A8-3 that would go 300 ft high.

Best regards,

William

Ltvscout
07-30-2007, 11:37 AM
Hello,

My 5 yr old and I purchased an old Estes Citation Quasar starter kit from 1972 (unopened and still in its original shipping box). We built it yesterday, and he's itching to fire it off today. We have never built or launched a rocket before. The kit contains 3 A-3 rocket engines.

Is it safe to launch the Quasar with its original engines, or should we purchase new engines from a hobby shop? I have been told by a couple of chemical engineers (but who have no rocket experience) that explosives become less stable over time, and that the old rocket engines may not perform as originally intended (perhaps burning faster or hotter or simply exploding on the launch pad rather than providing upward thrust, etc.).

Can anyone provide any guidance as to the safety of the old rocket engines? If we can not use the original engines, what replacement engines should we ask for at the hobby shop?

Best regards,

William
William,

The Citation A-3 motors are Estes A8-3 motors. Those are perfect motors for your first launch.

Congrats on finding that old starter set. They are actually quite valuable in todays market. May I ask what you paid for it?

Is the Quasar rocket that was in the set the all chrome model with chrome nosecone and fins?

Ltvscout
07-30-2007, 11:39 AM
Hello, ghrocketman,

Thanks for the fast response and needed details!!

The documentation with the Quasar stated that it should fly 1500 ft high and at speeds up to 300 mph. Is that too high/fast for a first launch? I notice that your reccomendation is to start with an A8-3 that would go 300 ft high.

Best regards,

William
The rocket may get close to that height using a C6-5 motor, nowhere close to that high with the supplied motors.

Estes used to exagerrate a tad on predicted altitudes back then. ;)

Rocketflyer
07-30-2007, 11:42 AM
Hello, ghrocketman,

Thanks for the fast response and needed details!!

The documentation with the Quasar stated that it should fly 1500 ft high and at speeds up to 300 mph. Is that too high/fast for a first launch? I notice that your reccomendation is to start with an A8-3 that would go 300 ft high.

Best regards,

William

An A8-3 would be best for your first flight. This way you can recover the rocket, and you won't have a neck snapping takeoff with a more powerful engine. To be sure, it will take off fast even on an A8. Fly it several times on A's until you get used to the flight characteristics, etc, then go for bigger, if you have a nice size field for recovery. :D

Have fun and welcome to the hobby! You and youe sone will have fun.

Cheers,

Jack

William Drake
07-30-2007, 11:47 AM
Hello, Ltvscout,

Thanks for that clarification regarding the engines!

I'll probably regret asking this, but how much do you mean when you say "quite valuable in todays market"? I told my son that the kit was likely worth a little more than we paid for it and that he could opt to sell the kit and use the money to purchase something else, but he was really excited at the idea of building a rocket right then and there. We paid a whopping $1.50 for the kit.

Yes, the rocket has a chrome nosecone and chrome fins. All the parts and pieces fit together very well, and we had an awesome time working on the project together. The only thing remaining to do is build the electrical ignition system that came with the kit and get some newer engines.

Best regards,

William

Ltvscout
07-30-2007, 12:02 PM
Hello, Ltvscout,

Thanks for that clarification regarding the engines!

I'll probably regret asking this, but how much do you mean when you say "quite valuable in todays market"? I told my son that the kit was likely worth a little more than we paid for it and that he could opt to sell the kit and use the money to purchase something else, but he was really excited at the idea of building a rocket right then and there. We paid a whopping $1.50 for the kit.

Yes, the rocket has a chrome nosecone and chrome fins. All the parts and pieces fit together very well, and we had an awesome time working on the project together. The only thing remaining to do is build the electrical ignition system that came with the kit and get some newer engines.

Best regards,

William
No problem with the help, William. Welcome to the hobby! You and your son will have a great time launching rockets.

I'm assuming this starter set had the chrome launch pad as well?

If everything was still sealed like you stated it could bring $150-$200, or even more, depending on the buyer.

Look at it this way... You and your son are having a great time working on something together, plus, you have a really cool looking chrome rocket!

Ltvscout
07-30-2007, 12:07 PM
I forgot to mention that I agree with what Ghrocketman stated about engine storage. IF they were stored correctly (cool, dry place) all these years they should be fine. Since you don't know how they were stored, I'd recommend going to the hobby shop and buying a new pack a A8-3 motors for it.

You could sell the old motors here (collectors like them) and be able to payoff what you paid for the set plus pay for a few new packs of motors.

JRThro
07-30-2007, 12:33 PM
Welcome to the hobby!

Since you don't know the conditions that the A8-3 engines included with the starter set were stored under, it would probably be safest to purchase new engines. Having said that, I have used a few of what I think are 30-year-old engines with no problems at all.

Hobby Lobby, (some) Michael's, HobbyTown USA, some local hobby shops, Wal-Mart, (some) Target stores, and many online vendors carry Estes model rocket motors.

ghrocketman
07-30-2007, 01:38 PM
That starter set is easily worth 75 to 100 times what you paid for it.

I would reccommend selling the set on ebay under the "Models, Rocketry" category to a collector.
You could easily buy four new Alpha III starter sets at Michael's or Hobby Lobby for what you will get out of the set on ebay (or buy one starter set, a couple more rockets and several paks of engines with the $$$)

One further warning as to the engines if you decide to keep the set: if the engines were not stored in a controlled envirionment, they may CATO, which is short for Catastrophic Failure, which often results in destruction of the rocket.

JRThro
07-30-2007, 02:35 PM
That starter set is easily worth 75 to 100 times what you paid for it.
Except that as he mentions in his original post, he and his son have already built the kit.

ghrocketman
07-30-2007, 02:55 PM
OOPS !
Missed that all-important tidbit in the original post !

William Drake
07-30-2007, 03:48 PM
You could sell the old motors here (collectors like them) and be able to payoff what you paid for the set plus pay for a few new packs of motors.

Hello, Ltvscout,

Thanks for the tip to resell the old motors! I would have just thrown them away.

Best regards,

William

William Drake
07-30-2007, 03:52 PM
Hello, JRThro,

Thanks for the welcome and the store list--I had no idea that rocket engines were so readily accessible. We'll make a short road trip after work today and pick up a new pack of engines.

Best regards,

William

William Drake
07-30-2007, 03:59 PM
No problem with the help, William. Welcome to the hobby! You and your son will have a great time launching rockets.

I'm assuming this starter set had the chrome launch pad as well?

If everything was still sealed like you stated it could bring $150-$200, or even more, depending on the buyer.

Look at it this way... You and your son are having a great time working on something together, plus, you have a really cool looking chrome rocket!


Hello, Ltvscout,

Ouch. Yes, we're having fun, and knowing just how much $$ is going up with the rocket will help me to savor the experience all the more. ;) I hope the rocket lasts a REALLY long time!

Best regards,
William

dwmzmm
07-30-2007, 05:18 PM
Hello, Ltvscout,

Thanks for that clarification regarding the engines!

I'll probably regret asking this, but how much do you mean when you say "quite valuable in todays market"? I told my son that the kit was likely worth a little more than we paid for it and that he could opt to sell the kit and use the money to purchase something else, but he was really excited at the idea of building a rocket right then and there. We paid a whopping $1.50 for the kit.

Yes, the rocket has a chrome nosecone and chrome fins. All the parts and pieces fit together very well, and we had an awesome time working on the project together. The only thing remaining to do is build the electrical ignition system that came with the kit and get some newer engines.

Best regards,

William

A "whopping" $1.50 for the kit?! Wow, you got a fantastic deal there!! A single model rocket
engine doesn't cost that nowadays. The Citation Quasar kit is a real collectors item.

BTW, welcome to the hobby; I know you're going to like it here. :)