Decal Paper

[tbzep]

I know we've discussed this topic before, but I've just run out of paper and need to find a good vendor for clear inkjet paper. I've used Bel in the past, but some of you have had trouble with new batches of it. If you would, please list which brand you use and where you ordered it from. I need it in bulk....20, 25, or even a 50 pack would do.

[CPMcGraw]

I know we've discussed this topic before, but I've just run out of paper and need to find a good vendor for clear inkjet paper. I've used Bel in the past, but some of you have had trouble with new batches of it. If you would, please list which brand you use and where you ordered it from. I need it in bulk....20, 25, or even a 50 pack would do.

Currently using Papilio. They have clear and white, inkjet and laser, in bulk quantities 25?/50/75/100...

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

I'm still using Bel paper, but on the advice of someone at NSL, I changed clearcoat. The results have been a HUGE improvement. :cool:

[kurtschachner]

I'm still using Bel paper, but on the advice of someone at NSL, I changed clearcoat. The results have been a HUGE improvement. :cool:

WELL?? Don't just leave us hangin' man! Tell us what the magic stuff is!

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

WELL?? Don't just leave us hangin' man! Tell us what the magic stuff is!

It's some kind of Testor's stuff in a small can that came from Hobby Lobby. I was going to check the label after I made my post, but I got distracted by something shiny. :o I'll check when I get home. It made a HUGE difference and I wish I could remember who told me about it so I could say "THANKS".

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

On a related note, I printed off some decals for my big Goony's today on white decal paper. I've never used the white before, but I had to because the label paper method wasn't working anymore. (The decals all started peeling up.)

[Solomoriah]

I applied stickers to my new wooden launch controller made from clear self-stick labels printed on my laser printer. Worked great... until I topcoated with Future. Guess what? Future dissolves laser toner. Peeled them off real quick, made new ones and topcoated them with polyurethane varnish. Worked fantastic, much thinner than Estes stickers. With two coats of varnish on top, I don't think they are going to peel up.

http://rocketry.newcenturycomputers.net/launchcontroller.html

BUT... on to a related subject. I understand you have to topcoat inkjet-printed waterslide decals to keep the ink from running when you wet the decal. Laser toner is waterproof (effectively) so, assuming I forego the Future and use an enamel spray topcoat for the entire rocket, I should be able to print waterslide decals and not topcoat them before applying. Right?

... see, I have this COLOR laser printer ...

[tbzep]

My last few sheets of Bel cracked as I applied them. I even coated the last batch with Microscale decal stuff after the Krylon spray dried and they still cracked on application. It looks like the decal sheet stretched and pulled the ink apart while not actually breaking.

Papillo looks like a good deal and Micro-Mark isn't too bad. I've read Expert's Choice is good, but I am not going to buy the stuff 3 sheets at a time for $7 plus shipping. If there's a better bulk source I'm game for it.

IIRC, Supercal decal sheets are just rebadged Bel materials. Am I correct on this?

[Bob H]

My last few sheets of Bel cracked as I applied them. I even coated the last batch with Microscale decal stuff after the Krylon spray dried and they still cracked on application. It looks like the decal sheet stretched and pulled the ink apart while not actually breaking.

I've had this happen to me and I put another coat of the clear spray and made sure I used WARM water to soak them. Even so, Bel paper seems to take a long time to separate from the backing (> 30 seconds) so if you wait until it moves freely, you'll find it's less prone to stretching and cracking.

All that said, I have stopped using the Krylon Acrylic spray and have switched to Rustoleum Enamel spray for topcoating. It seems to cover more evenly so I need to use less coats to prevent the ink from bleeding.

When I'm done with this batch of paper, I think I'm going to try the Micro Mark paper.

[Zeus-cat]

BUT... on to a related subject. I understand you have to topcoat inkjet-printed waterslide decals to keep the ink from running when you wet the decal. Laser toner is waterproof (effectively) so, assuming I forego the Future and use an enamel spray topcoat for the entire rocket, I should be able to print waterslide decals and not topcoat them before applying. Right?

Solomoriah,

My guess is that inkjet decal paper will not work in a laser printer. I would think that the makers of the paper would promote that their paper works in both inkjet and laser jet printers if it did. Something in the back of my mind tells me that I read somewhere to never put inkjet decal paper into a laser printer. I can't put my finger on it though. I would research it with the decal paper maker and the printer manufacturer before trying it.

[barone]

Solomoriah,

My guess is that inkjet decal paper will not work in a laser printer. I would think that the makers of the paper would promote that their paper works in both inkjet and laser jet printers if it did. Something in the back of my mind tells me that I read somewhere to never put inkjet decal paper into a laser printer. I can't put my finger on it though. I would research it with the decal paper maker and the printer manufacturer before trying it.
The decal paper I have says for ink jet printers and specifically says that it will not work with laser jet. By the way, I coat my decals after printing with Testors Decal Bonder. Haven't had any bleed through issues.

[scigs30]

If you don't own an alps printer, then I would suggest Bare Metal Foil paper. I hear the best printer for decals besides Alps is Epson C88. This printer uses durabrite inks so they don't run. I see these printers all the time at thrift stores for about 10 bucks. I have 2 Alps and love it.

[CPMcGraw]

...My guess is that inkjet decal paper will not work in a laser printer...

Neither will laser paper work in the ink jet printer. The coatings (adhesives) are completely different.

The Bel papers tend to work best with HP inks, but not all that well with others; and the Papilio papers work somewhat well with Lexmark and Epson inks, but not perfectly. I have quite a bit of cracking problems with all three of these inks. I don't know about Cannon inks, since I don't have a Cannon printer.

[Solomoriah]

Neither will laser paper work in the ink jet printer. The coatings (adhesives) are completely different.
Whoa... who has laser decal paper?

[CPMcGraw]

Whoa... who has laser decal paper?

I know Papilio does, but all of the major suppliers should carry both types. The coatings are very different formulations.

[foose4string]

I've had good luck with decal paper from Kustom Rides (http://www.kustomrides.com/kustom/decal-paper/). I've ordered from them twice, I've also tried Papilio. The Kustom paper is much better.

[moonzero2]

I've had good luck with decal paper from Kustom Rides (http://www.kustomrides.com/kustom/decal-paper/). I've ordered from them twice, I've also tried Papilio. The Kustom paper is much better.

Looking at their web site, they have two types,... do you use their "Premium" decal-paper?

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

WELL?? Don't just leave us hangin' man! Tell us what the magic stuff is!

Testors Decal Bonder. Product #9200. (Sorry it took so long. My room is a mess.)

[foose4string]

Looking at their web site, they have two types,... do you use their "Premium" decal-paper?

Just the regular, although I have been tempted to try the "premium" to see if I like it any better. I don't want to invest too much in paper, since the clear paper is somewhat limited in it's uses coming from an inkjet anyway. But for light colored rockets(mainly white, yellow, or silver), it's nice to be able to do your own. I just spray with several light coats of Krylon Krystal clear. Spray too thick and it will crack, not enough and they will run.

[Green Dragon]

GOing to post my own experiences, just in case it helps anyone out - BUT, am very open to info myself, due to current bad luck :(

anyways, what I;ve used / tried:

First ever decals were doen using the ( overpriced) Testor's paper and thier top coat. came out nice for my first tries, wish I had better artwork / software then , oh well, the Star Blazer looks ok anyways :)
MY bulk purchase was Papilio inkjet paper in clear, and had NO problems using my HP deskjet 3560 and HP inks... had one sheet bleed, but guessing my fault in topcoating.
( NOTE: I've tried Krylon clear, and brand x acrylic clear coats, but the Testors , although pricey, is real nice, you can get cheaper from Hobbylinc.com but must ship Parcel post ground ).
had ok results with testors white paper as well, never got to try Papilio Whit in my 3560

Fast forward to Oct 2006,my wife leaves taking computer,my artwork and the printer.... new (old) computer up and running, some artwork redrawn, although without the Adobe Creative Suites 2 :( ,
tried a Lexmark with Lexmark inks - ink cracked when drying ( before topcoating, all blotchy and cracks in the ink , black is worst ) .
got a used HP 1210 printer/scanner = same cracking, although the prior owner admits to refilling the inks, have yet to purchase genuine HP ink and try it.
Tried our 'Brother" machine at work = bad cracking as well :-(
( can you tell I;m getting frustrated ? )
tried HP printer ( unknown inks) at my dad's office - same results, and the older paper tore at the edges ( clear film came loose from the paper and ruined it - seems shelf life is so-so ?, new paper purchased, still no luck in my own HP ) .
we purchased a new Canon at my shop after the Brother one died, and still bad cracks in the inks, same cracked ink results with my brothers new canon he bought ( although, again, brand x 'compatible' inks ).

so.... looking to buy a new HP printer with HP ink and see what happens, the old HP can;t have been a fluke as I printed 25-30 sheets with only ONE bad experience.

meantime..... purchased Papilio laser sheets ( clear and white ), for use on my dad's new black laser = AWESOME, real nice going onto my WOlverine restoration, and that's without topcoat, so yes, waterproof inks :)
have yet to try any color laser printing, need to get to a print shop , kinko's etc and see if they can test print a couple...

so.... I highly reccomend Papilio as good , and best for the $$, too ..... but ink ocmpatability is hard to pin down, any comments ?

~ AL

[stantonjtroy]

I know I'm a little late chiming in on this one but I've used the Micro Mark paper, both clear and white, with great success. I use Krylon photofixative to set the ink then a couple of quick coats of krystal clear ( also Krylon) to give a little body, especially to the larger decals.

FWIW
Troy

[CPMcGraw]

I know I'm a little late chiming in on this one but I've used the Micro Mark paper, both clear and white, with great success. I use Krylon photofixative to set the ink then a couple of quick coats of krystal clear ( also Krylon) to give a little body, especially to the larger decals.

FWIW
Troy

Is this available in places like Hobby Lobby, or in some other specialty shop? I've not seen it (not that I've actually looked for it...). Does this do a good job at preventing bleeds, or slowing down any cracking problems?

[foose4string]

I just picked up a couple cans at Michael's yesterday as a matter of fact. It was in the clearance bin for 50 cents!

[Green Dragon]

Funny this thread just started up again, as just Thursday night I was up to my landlords playing with decal paper ( Papillio) in his HP with refilled / reset ink tanks - supposedly waterproof inks he got ( don;t have the url / info here as I'm not at the shop where I left same, sorry ) .

Anyways - test sheet on old Papilio paper = PERFECT :)

next 4 pages with the recent batch ( 50 sheets worth ) of Papilio paper = small 'cracks' .. looks more like orangpeel, tried it with slower dry time , as well as 'transparancy' settings, same deal - seems the new batch of paper might have been slightly diferent than older, same ' bad batch' as some of you have had with Bel papers.

I WILL be ordering more Papilio, might try others, just for grins - but can state for the record, no problems with Papilio LASER paper ( knock on wood - noting all I;ve done is black decals on clear paper - going to have to get to a Kinko's or similar, they should be able to photocopy decals printed on 'photo paper' onto the color laser paper, will post results if I go try it out .

~ AL

( photos soon, once the clearcoat dries, of my just decaled birds, some with Papilio printed decals, others with Excelsior :)

[soopirV]

After searching this site this is the closest I've come to resolution, and I'm new, so I don't want to be a jerk and start a new thread. SO: Hope someone sees this!

I bought a 25 pack of clear inkjet decal paper from www.decalpaper.com, which I see now is the same as "Bel". I like to plan ahead, so I pre-printed 4 or 5 sheets with all the artwork I'll need to consume my newly-delivered treasure chest of rocket parts. Had some issue with the printing, but nothing hairy- some smudging in the direction of the head with black, color looked great. (I think the cartridge has a "burn-in"- installed a brand new black cart just before starting, by sheet three the smudges/drags went away (also, since the smudges went width-wise, I like it! Makes the art (oriented the right way on the sheet, anyway) look fast!)). Anyway, flash forward to my issue/question, and I promise I'll stop with all the parenthesis:

I applied the first decals the other night (after top coating all sheets with Krylon acrylic per mfg instructions). I gotta be honest, I was expecting similar behavior to the trad H2O slide decals found in Estes and Testor's model kits of yore- nice and thin, almost too-fragile-to-handle images...these Bel puppies, however, were THICK! I felt like I was applying the lovechild of a slice of balogna and a contact lens. Also the edges were uncooperative, and kept rolling back. The skinnier stripes were impossible, since the ink tore merely by handling these slabs, AND the edges on the narrow dimension were so close that they'd roll into each other (think 1/2" wide circumfirential bands). Was I doing something wrong? Too much top coat? Wrong top coat? Frustrated, I gave up on the tiny details, and moved to a kit bash of Estes' Shadow (3 18" BT-70 instead of ~ 2.5 15" BT-80). The decals I designed for this were massive compared to the first round, and I armed myself with my wife's hairdryer. This actually seemed to work- it was still less-than-fun wrangling the edges down, but a quick shot of dry heat and BOOM, I could work my way down. As I went, I'd have to revisit some areas, but overall, my impression is the larger the decal (and more symmetrical the aspect ratio) the easier Bel's are to apply. For reference, I've tried to attach some images- the first two (labeled "Herc-x") are of the bad thngs- cracking and bunching. The Land Viper bash worked fantastically, since I used a hair dryer and had more material to work with (and is included here to prove that I'm not insane). I didn't include any of the Shadow bash mentioned above since it's not done yet.

Now for the final- Anyone else have this experience? Again, I'm (re)BAR, but abject noob at custom decals; are Bel blanks difficult? Am I using the wrong top coat? Any other application strategies worth pursuing (I didn't mention that I've tried rushing the soak (e.g. "breaking" the decal free of the paper) and "chillin" (waiting a minute, if the art ain't free from the backing, I ain't touching it)? I'm using HP 6980 with factory ink, btw (if it matters), although I'm not having any insurmountable trouble with the dyes.

[wilsotr]

I had the same problem with MicroMark decal paper ... not sure whether it's the same as the Bel paper or not. But the decals seemed too thick, edges rolled up, etc., just as you describe. So that doesn't help much, but maybe someone with the answer with chime in here.

[jetlag]

I believe the problem is with the Krylon overspray. My experience using krylon this way has had similar results with decals. I refuse to use it anymore. Often, little bits of the clear-coat will break off and get under the decal! :mad:
Testors makes a 'decal bonder' spray (darn expensive little rattle can-use a Hobby Lobby 40% off coupon). It is fantastic and works like magic for all the printed (ink-jet) decals I print and the ones from Tango Papa and Excelsior. I even use it on OOP kit decals (old ones) to help hold them together if they are brittle, which they usually are.
Spray one coat over the sheet after the ink is dry. Don't use too much---just enough to wet-gloss over the sheet, and let it dry flat (of course). You can use more than one coat, but it will add to the thickness. Dries quickly, but I wait at least 24 hours before I cut 'em out and apply them.
When all done, use Future to clear coat over the rocket. You'll love the results!
I guarantee it!
Allen

[tbzep]

I don't have any trouble with Krylon. All the decal paper brands I've tried tend to roll up a little. With experience and patience, I've got to the point that I can prevent most problems by holding the decal straight while soaking it, and then sliding it directly to the model so that it doesn't get the chance to curl. Occasionally a decal's edge will refuse to lay down, but that's remedied by Microscale's Micro Sol or Micro Set. Either will help the decal lay down and stick.

[stantonjtroy]

The Micro Mark paper I get from micromark.com. They have it in clear and white, 5, 10, 50 and 100 packs ( I think). Inkjet and Laserjet. Printer needs to be set to preamium hi-gloss paper or transparency film. After print let the inks dry for a few minutes then overcoat with a couple coats of Krylon Crystal Clear. Keep in mind, Krylon makes a number of different clears and Crystal Clear is the one I use here. Though I won't use Crystal Clear on ANYTHING else (frankly I think it sucks for everything else) it is best for this one aplication. I've used other papers and other sealers but this has been the best combination. I use an HP desk jet and inks. So far the decals (of wich I've made dozens) havn't faded any and it's been a couple of years on the oldest. If they do I might try archival inks but havn't had to as yet. I've also sprayed white paint on clear paper through a stensil as I don't have an ALPS. Not good for all aplications but it's good for many. The White is slightly translucent but in all is more than adequate. Hope this proves helpful.

FWIW

Troy

[foose4string]

After searching this site this is the closest I've come to resolution, and I'm new, so I don't want to be a jerk and start a new thread. SO: Hope someone sees this!

I bought a 25 pack of clear inkjet decal paper from www.decalpaper.com, which I see now is the same as "Bel". I like to plan ahead, so I pre-printed 4 or 5 sheets with all the artwork I'll need to consume my newly-delivered treasure chest of rocket parts. Had some issue with the printing, but nothing hairy- some smudging in the direction of the head with black, color looked great. (I think the cartridge has a "burn-in"- installed a brand new black cart just before starting, by sheet three the smudges/drags went away (also, since the smudges went width-wise, I like it! Makes the art (oriented the right way on the sheet, anyway) look fast!)). Anyway, flash forward to my issue/question, and I promise I'll stop with all the parenthesis:

I applied the first decals the other night (after top coating all sheets with Krylon acrylic per mfg instructions). I gotta be honest, I was expecting similar behavior to the trad H2O slide decals found in Estes and Testor's model kits of yore- nice and thin, almost too-fragile-to-handle images...these Bel puppies, however, were THICK! I felt like I was applying the lovechild of a slice of balogna and a contact lens. Also the edges were uncooperative, and kept rolling back. The skinnier stripes were impossible, since the ink tore merely by handling these slabs, AND the edges on the narrow dimension were so close that they'd roll into each other (think 1/2" wide circumfirential bands). Was I doing something wrong? Too much top coat? Wrong top coat? Frustrated, I gave up on the tiny details, and moved to a kit bash of Estes' Shadow (3 18" BT-70 instead of ~ 2.5 15" BT-80). The decals I designed for this were massive compared to the first round, and I armed myself with my wife's hairdryer. This actually seemed to work- it was still less-than-fun wrangling the edges down, but a quick shot of dry heat and BOOM, I could work my way down. As I went, I'd have to revisit some areas, but overall, my impression is the larger the decal (and more symmetrical the aspect ratio) the easier Bel's are to apply. For reference, I've tried to attach some images- the first two (labeled "Herc-x") are of the bad thngs- cracking and bunching. The Land Viper bash worked fantastically, since I used a hair dryer and had more material to work with (and is included here to prove that I'm not insane). I didn't include any of the Shadow bash mentioned above since it's not done yet.

Now for the final- Anyone else have this experience? Again, I'm (re)BAR, but abject noob at custom decals; are Bel blanks difficult? Am I using the wrong top coat? Any other application strategies worth pursuing (I didn't mention that I've tried rushing the soak (e.g. "breaking" the decal free of the paper) and "chillin" (waiting a minute, if the art ain't free from the backing, I ain't touching it)? I'm using HP 6980 with factory ink, btw (if it matters), although I'm not having any insurmountable trouble with the dyes.

A week or two ago, I tried to save a few dollars by ordering from decalpaper.com and am very disappointed with it. I'm having issues with the edges curling up also. Seems like there is barely any adhesive. There's been no problem with the film taking the printer ink(HP7350) and I'm using Krylon UV resistant clear to coat them.- same method I have used successfully on other decal papers.

Previously, I was using the premium decal paper from Kustomrides.com and had excellent results, but their price has been creeping up over the past couple of years, so I thought I'd try something different and save a few bucks. Bottom line- you get what you pay for. I think I'll try Micro Mark next. They seem to have a good reputation. This was the second time trying bel papers(ordered from papilio.com the first time) over the past few years and I'll never make that mistake again. I wasn't impressed the first time either, but they weren't this bad. I'm going to try and get a refund on this stuff, but I'm not hopeful.

Don't worry- it's not you. One thing I do suggest is not letting the clear coat dry for an extended period of time to where it hardens all the way. I usually spray and then apply the decals within 12-24 hours. This ensures the topcoat is still pliable and won't crack when the decal is applied.

[Solomoriah]

And if you do it that way, be sure you're not using a fast-drying lacquer clearcoat... cheapo alkyd paint works better for this purpose. I love my lacquer clearcoat for doing the whole bird, but not for decal strengthening.