launch complex 39

[SaturnV]

Is there or was there ever any kits or plans out there for building a launch pad like the Saturns lifted off from? I have an estes Saturn V kit i built in 1999 and am considering building a pad for it this winter. Figure it would look cooler lifting off from a scale of the actual launch complex that from a rod I have anchored into a piece of wood! Thanks in advance.

[Royatl]

Is there or was there ever any kits or plans out there for building a launch pad like the Saturns lifted off from? I have an estes Saturn V kit i built in 1999 and am considering building a pad for it this winter. Figure it would look cooler lifting off from a scale of the actual launch complex that from a rod I have anchored into a piece of wood! Thanks in advance.

Lots of people have done it, but I don't know of anyone that has published their plans for it.

There was a guy in my club nearly 20 years ago that had one where he put FSI E5 motors inside to simulate the pre-liftoff smoke.

[CPMcGraw]

Is there or was there ever any kits or plans out there for building a launch pad like the Saturns lifted off from? I have an estes Saturn V kit i built in 1999 and am considering building a pad for it this winter. Figure it would look cooler lifting off from a scale of the actual launch complex that from a rod I have anchored into a piece of wood! Thanks in advance.

Revell/Monogram once had a 1/144 plastic static kit containing the Shuttle stack and the modified launch complex. It may have been based on early drawings, as my memory says it was available prior to the first launches. I think this was 30 years ago, give or take a couple of years. The price even back then was somewhere between $75 and $120, maybe even more; so it wasn't on my "immediate purchase" list. It would have been an impressive static display.

I know of only one original Saturn-era plastic kit of the tower and pad, and that was in a much smaller scale. Late '60s, early '70s vintage. Don't remember the manufacturer.

If you could locate the R/M kit, it might be expensive today, but it might also provide enough detail to build a reasonably close structure for the flying Saturns.

NASA might also have such drawings available through their resource offices. I haven't looked, but there's probably some "public domain" data sheets and three-views floating around there somewhere...

[dtomko]

If you have a real lot of money to spend, Launch Complex models is going to have a 1/96 scale photoetched model out:
http://www.launchcomplexmodels.com/ML.html
Considering the 1/144 scale kit is $750 (plus shipping :eek: ) I don't know how much a larger version would cost. There were photos posted on the Space Modelers Yahoo Group and it really is an amazing kit, but obviously pricey.
I've also seen a card model, again in 1/144 scale, on eBay for I think around $30. You would have to flameproof it, if you could scale it up somehow.
I have also seen scratch models for the Estes/Centuri kits - I believe Micromeister had photos of one over at The Rocketry Forum. There are enough photos of the real thing out there if you have the patience to scratch one.
BTW, I had the Revell Shuttle launch complex in the 80s; it cost me about $50 in a local hobby shop. It may have been reissued by Revell Germany a while after that for the higher price you saw, Craig. It's going for astronomical sums now on eBay when it turns up. Fantastic model, but it's been pointed out that it had a lot of inaccuracies. The small scale Saturn V and tower was by Cashulette and was available in the KSC gift shop for a while a long time ago. It was something like 1/390 scale.
Drew

[Rocket Doctor]

I know of a guy in New York State who told me he scratch built a Saturn V launch tower and possibly, he would want to sell it.

Send me a PM, and I will contact him.

On the back of an early Centuri catalog there is a Saturn V on a launch tower. Possibly Lee Piester could help you out over who built it. (probably someone in house)

[dwmzmm]

I had built one back in 1970 or 1971 for my Estes K-36 model (2nd one) and was able to launch my Saturn - V from it just once. I have a few slides/pics of it below:

The tower was built as I had lots of spare balsa material and other stuff. When I got near the top, I lost my patience and just used a solid sided balsa instead of the truss framework.
Biggest problem with a tower of this size was transporting to the launch site; we had (then)
a 1964 Rambler station wagon, and I was able to lay it (carefully) on top of the luggage rack
and secure it for transportation. However, on the second or third attempt to transport it,
it broke apart and I never did try to mess with it again :( . Did get one cool liftoff of my
Saturn - V on it (second pic), but that flight was a disaster; due to very high humidity, all
three parachutes got jammed in the bodytube, the entire engine mount blew out at ejection
and the model lawndarted :mad: . Never forgotten that day!!

[Rocket Doctor]

I had built one back in 1970 or 1971 for my Estes K-36 model (2nd one) and was able to launch my Saturn - V from it just once. I have a few slides/pics of it below:

The tower was built as I had lots of spare balsa material and other stuff. When I got near the top, I lost my patience and just used a solid sided balsa instead of the truss framework.
Biggest problem with a tower of this size was transporting to the launch site; we had (then)
a 1964 Rambler station wagon, and I was able to lay it (carefully) on top of the luggage rack
and secure it for transportation. However, on the second or third attempt to transport it,
it broke apart and I never did try to mess with it again :( . Did get one cool liftoff of my
Saturn - V on it (second pic), but that flight was a disaster; due to very high humidity, all
three parachutes got jammed in the bodytube, the entire engine mount blew out at ejection
and the model lawndarted :mad: . Never forgotten that day!!


That would really burn my britches though, after all of that work, both , on the tower and the rocket....

My biggest problem was rockets that just kept going and going like the energizer bunny, never to be heard or seen of ever again.

At least the rocket eating trees were good to me, they knew better, I guess that is why chain saws were invented............................just kidding !!!!!

[Rocketking]

Back in 2004 a certain Dr. Zooch creator sitting in his booth constructing a paper version of the launch pad. It appeared to be 'in scale' with the Saturn V he (Wes O.) produces.

He posts on the Rocketry Forum frequently. It might be worth it to 'rattle his cage' if you can.

You never know what might 'shake loose' from that creative brain of his...

[dwmzmm]

[QUOTE=Rocket Doctor]

My biggest problem was rockets that just kept going and going like the energizer bunny, never to be heard or seen of ever again.

QUOTE]

You mean like this?! Below are a series of pics of my (late) Saturn - IV/Astrocam I flew at
JSC back in May 15, 2005. This model has two stages; four engine cluster in each. First stage
consists of a D12-0 (core) and three C6-0 (strapons); second stage has a D12-7 (core) and
three C6-7 (strapons). Model flew really great, only that it went so high up that we never
could see anything. The four ejection charges were heard, but no sign of the bright, yellow
20" nylon chute (with spill hole) and an eight foot long blue streamer that was part of the
recovery system to aid visibility against the white cloud cover should there be one (there
was). A real bummer, as the film cartridge in that Astrocam had about eight flights worth
of coverage and I lost all of that :mad: :( . But don't worry, I'm going to build a "new" Saturn - IV with improved features (if I can ever get around to it!!).

The first two and very last picture were taken by me; all the other in-flight pics were taken
by Warren Benson of the NASA/Houston Rocket Club (the guy with the red shirt in the background of the second picture). The last picture shows the four components of the first
stage that were recovered about 75 feet from the launch pad. All of these first stage components were "new," so you can see that they took a "beating" during the flight considering this was their first time being used.

[SaturnV]

Thanks to all. Royatl, I planned to use smoke bombs available from the firework stores in my area to simulate LOTS of ignition smoke. As far as buying I would prefer to build one from scratch, but I was wondering if any kits were out there. Guess if they are the price would preclude me from buying one. I sure have never seen any kits locally though. Should mention i don't go into the minute detail a lot of the modelers here do, my hat is off to them. I just want it pretty close but it does not have to be 100% to the nearest strut or truss member. My eventual plan is to have spring loaded swing arms that can swing back, pre-ignition smoke, and time everything to a taped (okay, a CD'ed) playing of the real Apollo launches. Would probably use a RC handcontroler to activate the arms, the smoke and the actual ignition. Firmly believe a saturn liftoff should always be a dramatic event, even if it is a model :) . DWMZMM, I see a couple of Midgets in your photo, S series engines? Thanks for the photos, love looking at old photos like this. Your launching field seems to have lots of trees, assume some of those pictured rockets wound up in the tops of them. Rocket Doctor, I wonder if your friend drew up plans for his launch tower? PM on the way. Thanks again to all.

[ScaleNut]

heres 2 drawings to start with

http://members.aol.com/petealway/Peterdata.html

[Rocket Doctor]

Saturn V

I am getting an error message on PM, once that is cleared up, I will send to you details on that tower I mentioned.

[Rocket Doctor]

aturn V

Maybe you could contact NASA about information regarding the tower, you never know what you will come across.

[moonzero2]

You'll love this site. Does not seem to have any drawing of it, but it does have a lot of pictures.
http://www.apollosaturn.com/
Enjoy!

[moonzero2]

Here is another link with more pictures,...
http://www.cloudster.com/RealHardware/SaturnLUT/SaturnLUT.htm
Enjoy!

[dwmzmm]

DWMZMM, I see a couple of Midgets in your photo, S series engines? Thanks for the photos, love looking at old photos like this. Your launching field seems to have lots of trees, assume some of those pictured rockets wound up in the tops of them.


SaturnV, yes, that's my first Astron Midget (received as one of the many free kits via mail
order for purchasing over a certain amount). As you can guess, the Astron Midget was my
first multistaged model. If I remember correctly, I used an 1/2A6-0S to an 1/2A6-2S (not
sure of the upperstage delay, but there wasn't much that could be packed in those S series
engines). The staging took place right about where the top of the launch rod ends :p . So,
we got a good look at how a multistage model rocket is suppose to work, but I have to admit
that I didn't expect to see everything happen as fast as it did.

The launch field in that pic is the C. W. Ruckle Jr. High School in Niceville, Florida. This is where I got my start in the hobby. The trees are actually much further away than they
appear in the pics; the recovery area we had was perfect even for the very high flying
C powered models we flew (my friends pictured had the Centuri Javelin, and it went out of
sight on a C6-7 and still landed well within the school property area). This location is also
where my very first model launch took place (Astron Alpha), first scale/cluster launch
(Estes K-36 Saturn - V), and I think I flew my first boostglide attempt here (Astron Spaceplane) but can't be too sure. When I tried the Saturn - V for the first time, the cars
from the road that ran next to the school property stopped to watch. Of course, this made
me more nervous about flying. As luck would have it, two of the three C6-3's ignited and
I got a pretty descent flight & recovery. A thrill that I've never forgotten to this day!!

Pic of that first Saturn - V launch attempt below (I'm positioning myself so I can jump out
of the way should the model tip over during the launch attempt!!)...

[SaturnV]

Scalenut thank you, that is exactly what I was after. I can scale it to fit my rocket. Never saw that link before, I was aware the apollo-saturn link. I drool over it quite often! :) Thanks to all for the links, I will be busy this weekend checking the photos out.
dwmzmm, I envy you guys with good flying fields, I have none near me. Even a large farm that i used to fly at has consumed one too many rockets in it border trees, and being a farm I am limited as to when I can launch. There was a township park i used to launch at but one day a kid and his Mom came up to watch, and when the rocket went off (an Estes Ninja) she demanded that i leave because she said it was unsafe and , I quote: "my husband is a cop" whatever that had to do with it. I just avoid the area now.

[Green Dragon]

[QUOTE=dwmzmmYou mean like this?! Below are a series of pics of my (late) Saturn - IV/Astrocam I flew at
JSC back in May 15, 2005. This model has two stages; four engine cluster in each. First stage
consists of a D12-0 (core) and three C6-0 (strapons); second stage has a D12-7 (core) and
three C6-7 (strapons). Model flew really great, only that it went so high up that we never
could see anything. The four ejection charges were heard, but no sign of the bright, yellow
20" nylon chute (with spill hole) and an eight foot long blue streamer that was part of the
recovery system to aid visibility against the white cloud cover should there be one (there
was). A real bummer, as the film cartridge in that Astrocam had about eight flights worth
of coverage and I lost all of that :mad: :( . But don't worry, I'm going to build a "new" Saturn - IV with improved features (if I can ever get around to it!!).

The first two and very last picture were taken by me; all the other in-flight pics were taken
by Warren Benson of the NASA/Houston Rocket Club (the guy with the red shirt in the background of the second picture). The last picture shows the four components of the first
stage that were recovered about 75 feet from the launch pad. All of these first stage components were "new," so you can see that they took a "beating" during the flight considering this was their first time being used.[/QUOTE]

very cool bird / photos .

now the milllion dollar question ...... even though it looks straightforward = PLANS ????

would love to build one, maybe without the Astrocam :) .

reminds me of the old CRM mag ' marcus technology' photos ( CMR Marcus strap-on boosters ) , and the MERV style booster recovery, very interesting project.

~ AL

ps: as for ' always lost' models, will try to remember to get a photo of a rocket I call the "drone" - picture a baby bertha sized rocket with booster, 3 x C6-0 staged to 3 x C6-7 .. now on my third one ( using booster from # 2 ) , neither of the first two were ever seen after staging ......
funny how we can recover HPR birds from 7000+ feet, but not small high - flying model rockets, hmmm.......

[mperdue]

I don't want to start rumors but I have it on pretty good authority that LAUNCH Magazine will covering this in a future issue. Someone I know very well assures me its going to happen... :)

Mario

[Rocket Doctor]

I don't want to start rumors but I have it on pretty good authority that LAUNCH Magazine will covering this in a future issue. Someone I know very well assures me its going to happen... :)

Mario



Could this be Mark ?????

[rocketguy101]

Is there or was there ever any kits or plans out there for building a launch pad like the Saturns lifted off from? I have an estes Saturn V kit i built in 1999 and am considering building a pad for it this winter. Figure it would look cooler lifting off from a scale of the actual launch complex that from a rod I have anchored into a piece of wood! Thanks in advance.

The December 1973 issue of "Model Rocketeer" had an article on the Saturn V launcher w/ a plan view, and lots of pictures. Back issues used to be available from NARTS (https://blastzone.com/nar/narts/), but I didn't see them online. Anybody know if these are online somewhere? I checked Ye Olde Rocket Plans (http://www.oldrocketplans.com/publications.htm) but no joy there, either.

[mperdue]

Could this be Mark ?????

I try to keep Mark out of these decisions. I find it's easier to get forgiven than it is to get permission. :)

Mario

[dwmzmm]

The December 1973 issue of "Model Rocketeer" had an article on the Saturn V launcher w/ s plan view, and lots of pictures. Back issues used to be available from NARTS (https://blastzone.com/nar/narts/), but I didn't see them online. Anybody know if these are online somewhere? I checked Ye Olde Rocket Plans (http://www.oldrocketplans.com/publications.htm) but no joy there, either.

I'd like to see if Ninfinger can post files of all the Model Rocketeer issues beginning with the
first after Model Rocketry magazine folded. I use to have all those issues until 1982, but
haven't been able to find them since I became a BAR in 2003. Many of those old Model
Rocketeer's had really excellent articles, plans and pictures, even though it was in black &
white. Plus, I was able to get one of my competition plans posted (1978, I think) :D .

[rocketguy101]

[QUOTE=dwmzmm]I'd like to see if Ninfinger can post files of all the Model Rocketeer issues beginning with the first after Model Rocketry magazine folded. QUOTE]

Will the NAR allow that?

[dwmzmm]

[QUOTE=dwmzmm]I'd like to see if Ninfinger can post files of all the Model Rocketeer issues beginning with the first after Model Rocketry magazine folded. QUOTE]

Will the NAR allow that?

Don't know, but you do know those MRm files includes the Model Rocketeer that was part of
the magazine during that time. I really don't see a difference here.....

[rocketguy101]

I with you! Hopefully some of the NAR brass can weigh in on that. If they were still selling back issues, and those particular back issues were still in stock, they may argue they need the funds for NAR. However, if the particular issue is out of stock, then it should be available on an archive site.

[Astron Caveman]

Countdown Industries used to sell a foot high plastic Saturn V (the body was essentially one piece) plus a crawler/MLP/LUT that was assembled from a number of pieces. The tower was probably about 14" tall.

I remember seeing a Cox Saturn tower in some kind of IPMS quarterly in 1970, intended to be marketed with their Saturn V. It looked quite good. That's absolutely the only place I ever read or saw any evidence of a LUT by Cox any other model rocket manufacturer.

It's not that hard to build an ok representation of the tower from scratch, though. Attached is a photo of one I built in 1984. The tower was built from balsa square pieces, with soda straws for the diagonal parts of the truss, and gussets and decking cut from cardboard. The crane was balsa and cardboard with a BT-5 lightning mast. The MLP was a hardwood construction decked with thin plywood.

I got the basic dimensions from the old article in a '72 or '73 Model Rocketeer, and added a few simple details here and there that hinted at the complexity of the actual tower. The result looked pretty good in photos. That's my Thrust Augmented Saturn V taking off on (2) F100's and (5) C6's at LDRS-3 (photo was taken by Moose Lavigne).