Astrovision as kit?

[tfischer]

Howdy all, first post here so be gentle! :)

Anyone know if the Astrovision is/will be available as a standalone kit (or RTF) vs having to buy the starter set? It would seem strange to me that they would require a starter set purchace, but so far that's all I've seen online (and of course in the catalog).

Also, is there a link to a post or website with the differences between the Oracle and Astrovision? Why so much price difference?

I did search for this but came up dry. But then I might not be searching on the proper keywords...

Thanks,
-Tim

[Rocket Doctor]

If you want answers from the source, contact Estes customer service, 1-800-525-7561 X-216 (Christine)

There have been a few kits that are packaged as starter sets,when they should have been seperate.

The Astrocam 110 is an example, after lots of "discussion" it was finally made available seperately.

Another example, the Deluxe Super Shot Screw Machine, which was boxed and featured at Wal-Mart. It came in a huge box, eventually put in a box half it's size and eventually dropped. The price that Wal-Mart was selling it for was a great bargain.

Last year the above was brought back out as a single bagged kit, Converter.

I always say, if you like a kit and it comes as a starter set, if you don't want the launch system, donate it to a newbee, who would appreciate it and get into the hobby, it's a win-win situation.

It's a corporate decision, not always the correct one.

[Shreadvector]

Howdy all, first post here so be gentle! :)

Anyone know if the Astrovision is/will be available as a standalone kit (or RTF) vs having to buy the starter set? It would seem strange to me that they would require a starter set purchace, but so far that's all I've seen online (and of course in the catalog).

Also, is there a link to a post or website with the differences between the Oracle and Astrovision? Why so much price difference?

I did search for this but came up dry. But then I might not be searching on the proper keywords...

Thanks,
-Tim

Astrovision is lighter and flies with a C motor.

Oracle flies with a D motor in a larger rocket.

The specs have been compared and dicussed.

http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=34126&highlight=oracle+astrovision

There are numerous other threads with discussion, some here in this fourm. Give "search" a try and see if anything comes up.

[tfischer]

There are numerous other threads with discussion, some here in this fourm. Give "search" a try and see if anything comes up.

Thanks for the link. As I pointed out in my original post, I did do a search (in this forum -- I'm not familiar with every rocket forum out there) and I read every post that search claimed to have "Astrovision" in it. There weren't very many, which surprised me, so maybe search limits the number of posts it returns?

Anyway, if you have any more specific threads that I missed I 'd appreciate it if you'd post them here. And also any tips on what I might be doing wrong in my searching.

Not trying to be defensive-- just didn't want people's first impression of me to be "yet another newbie that asks questions before searching himself".

thanks,
-Tim

ETA: I just read through that thread (long, and mostly not about the Oracle/Astrovision). I think I actually HAD found that thread last night before I posted -- but not a lot of info was there (mainly people speculating about how the kit compared to the Oracle...) I guess I was hoping that now that it's been out for awhile, there would be more concrete info on it (like how does the video quality compare, etc). Thanks anyway.

[tfischer]

It's a corporate decision, not always the correct one.

I don't quite understand it. It seems like there would be bigger margins in the solo rocket than in a starter set. So it would be win-win for the company and the customer to offer both: I'd save a few bucks on the rocket, and they'd make a few bucks by having a higher-margin product.

Donating the set to a newbie might be a good idea if I could find one -- but then the starter kits are typically priced so that it doesn't make much sense. For example, I was at our local hobby place and wanted to pick up an Alpha III to replace the original I had as a kid. They wanted $16 for that thing-- complete rip-off compared to other rockets of that size/caliber. But the Alpha III starter set was $20. So for $4 more I get pad, launch controller AND engines, etc. Even if someone had been given the pad & controller for free (e.g. from me, after buying the Astrovision) the engines would cost more than that... :(

From what I've read in the last few days, the general consensus here is "Estes doesn't have its head on straight". And I'm starting to agree, sadly...

-Tim

[Solomoriah]

I have four Estes launch stands and two of their controllers; a school I work with just threw them out over the summer. They seem to be multiplying like rabbits. Counting my Centuri Power Tower, I have five stands total... if I knew any newbies I'd give one or two stands away. But the only newbies I know around here started with starter sets from Wal-Mart, so they don't need launch stands or controllers.

My range box is getting a bit full...

[Rocket Doctor]

The next time you go to a groupaunch, I'm sure there would be a kid just wanting his own launch system.

Do you have any Scout groups or 4-H'ers nearby. They could probably need a launch system.

I think the reason so many great kits are packaged as starter set is for mass merchandisers such as Wal-Mart who basically sell starter sets and not just controllers and launch pads.

They want to sell the WHOLR package, and, not just pieces.
The next issue is finding an assortment of motors.

[tfischer]

They want to sell the WHOLR package, and, not just pieces.


Yeah that makes sense, IF they think you will only ever want one rocket...

But you'd think a company like Estes would want to get you 'hooked' and buy lots of kits (and thus motors, which I suspect is their real profit center anyway...)

-Tim

[Solomoriah]

The next time you go to a groupaunch, I'm sure there would be a kid just wanting his own launch system.
The next time I go to a group launch will be the FIRST time I go to a group launch. I live in a rocketry wasteland... the only rocketeers I know, I indoctrinated myself.

Do you have any Scout groups or 4-H'ers nearby. They could probably need a launch system.
I am involved in 4-H; but those kids all have launch stands, bought at Wal-Mart as part of starter sets.

[barone]

Well....I couldn't resist. I used a 40% coupon and bought one at Hobby Lobby. First impressions....I like it better than the Oracle. 2nd impression....might have to go the refurbed pen camera route ;)

[Initiator001]

Yeah that makes sense, IF they think you will only ever want one rocket...

But you'd think a company like Estes would want to get you 'hooked' and buy lots of kits (and thus motors, which I suspect is their real profit center anyway...)

-Tim

Back 15-20 years ago, the average model rocketry consumer ( 10-14 year old male) was involved with the hobby for 6-8 weeks.

Today, with all the other things kids like to do, the average model rocketry consumer seems to last 6-8 days! :eek:

A company like Estes needs to get the maximum $$$ out of the one or two purchases this temporary rocketeer will make. :(

Bob

[tfischer]

Back 15-20 years ago, the average model rocketry consumer ( 10-14 year old male) was involved with the hobby for 6-8 weeks.

Not sure what "average" is. But somebody was buying all those fancy rockets in the 80's-era catalogs... I was active in the hobby, on and off, for most of my Jr. Hi and early High School days-- no clubs or anything, pretty much just me and any family/friends I could rope into coming along for the launches. I dabbled in it a bit my senior year in H.S. again, and then again for a summer in college... Then I was mostly off except for a brief episode in the late 90's when my wife bought me a starter set...

This time around I'm not sure how long the 'trend' will last for me. It didn't take much to spark it -- I had to bring my kid's "power wheels" car to a hobby store to get it upgraded. They had rockets, and one thing led to another and I started researching on the 'net, bought a few kits, etc. etc. I was shocked to find all the changes in the industry since I've been gone -- like Estes dumbing down but the other small manufacturers taking up the slack...

Anyway, it's just common business sense to make business recurr... Just like the razor companies -- they (often) give you the razor, then charge $10 for the darned blades... Estes should be trying to hook people, as well as get the "6-8 day" folks. A low-priced video rocket could certainly spark the interest of a young kid today -- I know I drooled over the original Astrocam for years (sadly, I never did get any pics back from it as it was lost before the first roll developed...) It's just a waste to force people to buy another porta-pad and launch controller... And the margins just can't be as high...

Oh well, just speaking my opinions here. I know Estes is gonna do what they're gonna do...

I wonder what a porta-pad/launch set would go for on ebay :)


-Tim

P.S. I was looking at the 1984 Estes catalog online this afternoon and it was like a time warp. That was right in the heart of when I was in the hobby as a middle-schooler, and I probably slept with/memorized that thing... I'm anxious to get back to my parents place to see if any of those rockets I had are still around, and in what condition...

[Nuke Rocketeer]

The next time I go to a group launch will be the FIRST time I go to a group launch. I live in a rocketry wasteland... the only rocketeers I know, I indoctrinated myself.


Do you mean infected, not indoctrinated? :D

Joe W

[Royatl]

Back 15-20 years ago, the average model rocketry consumer ( 10-14 year old male) was involved with the hobby for 6-8 weeks.

Today, with all the other things kids like to do, the average model rocketry consumer seems to last 6-8 days! :eek:

A company like Estes needs to get the maximum $$$ out of the one or two purchases this temporary rocketeer will make. :(

Bob

Dane Boles told me something similar as far back as 1978 when I interviewed him for a research paper I was doing for a class in college.

[Skippy]

[snip]

This time around I'm not sure how long the 'trend' will last for me. It didn't take much to spark it -- [snip]

I bought an RTF Patriot starter set in late 2005 to see if my kids were interested. It is now 207 flights and many kits later, and I'm still hooked. I could open a hobby shop with my build queue. :)

I guess for every 10 kids who try and drop out, there is one of us BAR crazies who buys more kits a year than 10 kids ever would. That's why things like The Red Max and the D Region Tomahawk are getting brought back.

[Initiator001]

Dane Boles told me something similar as far back as 1978 when I interviewed him for a research paper I was doing for a class in college.

I would say the 6-8 weeks interest time was good until around 1995. Computers, Nintendo, R/C cars seem to take hold, then.

Recently, RTF R/C electric park flyer airplanes and helicopters, also, seem to have taken a bite out of rocketry.

I have heard from the plastic model building folks that they are facing the same problem as our hobby.

While we may think things are bad, how many folks fly Wakefield models or Control Line?

Bob

[Initiator001]

It's just a waste to force people to buy another porta-pad and launch controller... And the margins just can't be as high...



Estes Management always insures that the 'margin' on every item meets a set standard. If, after being put into production, an item fails to meet that margin standard, the Suggested Retail Price (SRP) is adjusted to meet that requirement.

Bob

[barone]

Ok...for those of you who might want to know, Astrovision doesn't work with Vista operating system. I had to e-mail Estes Customer Service to ask. Their reply, "AstroVision doesn't work with Vista". No explanation. No indication that there might be a fix in the works. Nothing. :mad: I'm just glad that I got mine with the Hobby Lobby 40% discount instead of the full price and that I still have an XP system as back-up (forget the fact that now my scanning software is gone once I loaded the Astrovision software :mad: Don't know what happened there). Of course, in all fairness, the packaging didn't say it worked with Vista. But it sure works with Visa :( All this bull for 16 seconds of video....where is that Aiptel site....I'll make my own. Hey, maybe I should make a lot of them and sell them as an alternative to Estes...... :D

[Royatl]

Ok...for those of you who might want to know, Astrovision doesn't work with Vista operating system. I had to e-mail Estes Customer Service to ask. Their reply, "AstroVision doesn't work with Vista". No explanation. No indication that there might be a fix in the works. Nothing. :mad: I'm just glad that I got mine with the Hobby Lobby 40% discount instead of the full price and that I still have an XP system as back-up (forget the fact that now my scanning software is gone once I loaded the Astrovision software :mad: Don't know what happened there). Of course, in all fairness, the packaging didn't say it worked with Vista. But it sure works with Visa :( All this bull for 16 seconds of video....where is that Aiptel site....I'll make my own. Hey, maybe I should make a lot of them and sell them as an alternative to Estes...... :D


There's almost certainly a way, though it's not worth it for me to buy one to figure it out.

Can you not install it or does it just not work once it is installed? or could it be that it just has a brain-dead installer that doesn't understand the changes in security and user paths?

[barone]

Roy,

The software installs fine. It's just that you can't download from the camera.

[snaquin]

....where is that Aiptel site....I'll make my own. Hey, maybe I should make a lot of them and sell them as an alternative to Estes...... :D

Don,

http://www.aiptek.com/

Click on PenCams on the left hand side of the page.

.