How do you make your own decals?

[dbrent]

I've always wanted to try and build one of the older Estes kits using JimZ's plans and decals but I've never "printed" my own water-slide decals before. My questions are:

1. Do you need a color laser printer or will an inkjet work?
2. What kind of "printable" decal paper do you use and where can you get it?
3. Are there any "gotchas" a first timer should know about?

[barone]

I've always wanted to try and build one of the older Estes kits using JimZ's plans and decals but I've never "printed" my own water-slide decals before. My questions are:

1. Do you need a color laser printer or will an inkjet work?
2. What kind of "printable" decal paper do you use and where can you get it?
3. Are there any "gotchas" a first timer should know about?
Kinda scary isn't it..... :eek:

Everyone has their own method. Me, I picked up some decal paper at Hobby Lobby along with some decal bonder spray (comes in a spray can similar to small spray cans of paint). Have to use on an ink jet....directions tell you not to use with laser printers. Of course, it doesn't print white ink but I think you can use the white decal paper instead of the clear (haven't tried that yet). I was really surprised at how well it worked.

[CPMcGraw]

I've always wanted to try and build one of the older Estes kits using JimZ's plans and decals but I've never "printed" my own water-slide decals before. My questions are:

1. Do you need a color laser printer or will an inkjet work?
2. What kind of "printable" decal paper do you use and where can you get it?
3. Are there any "gotchas" a first timer should know about?

DB,

This is a "Pandora's Can of Worms" subject, as others here will attest to. And as BARONE said, it's kinda scary, even for those of us who have done it a time or two...

There are several companies who produce and/or sell decal paper, for both ink jet and laser printers. Just be sure of which paper you're buying, because laser paper will not work in the ink jet, and ink jet paper will not work in the laser. Each of these companies also have their good points and their bad points about quality control, price, availability, etc. On this forum, you'll hear the brands "Bel" and "Papilio" quite often. These are perhaps the most-common and least-expensive papers available, and those of us who have used one have probably also used the other. There are clear papers, and there are white papers. The clear paper has no background color; the white paper has a layer of white background pigment. White is used when your model has a dark paint scheme -- it's like a thin primer layer so the ink color remains visible (ink jet ink is transparent; you just don't notice it as much on white printer paper as you would on a decal).

Printing and using your own decals is actually a simple process of working up an image with some graphics software, like Photoshop, Corel Draw, The GIMP, and numerous other packages. Once you have the image available, you set the print quality according to the paper's instructions (some give you good instructions, others give you zip...) and simply print the image to the paper. Let the ink dry, especially if the output was heavy, for about an hour or two, then apply the first layer of sealer spray. This is a clear acrylic that is sprayed over the ink to both seal the ink and to create the "clear plastic layer" that holds everything together. Several brands are usable, including Krylon, Valspar, and Rust-O-Leum. Do this in a well-ventillated room!!! The odor is foul to noxious and can be harmful to small animals (like fish and birds); and isn't too healthy for big animals (like cats, dogs, or humans...), either. Spray about three layers of this acrylic, allowing a couple of hours for drying after each coat. If you spray it too heavy, it might attack the previous layer and ruin the decal. The more even and uniform the spray, the smoother the decal in the end.

Finding the right printer is probably the hardest task -- some low-end printers just don't work with ANY paper. And there is a suggestion that some of those refill kits might work better with decal paper than the original manufacturer's ink. It's a lot of trial-and-error; and mostly error. :(

My personal experience:

1. HP inks seem to work the most consistently on Bel and Papilio, but not without at least some cracking issues.

2. Epson DuraBrite seems to work better on Papilio, but cracking issues are a nuisance.

3. Lexmark seems to work as well as HP on Papilio, but the ink takes longer to dry and can easily be lifted off the paper by the "star wheels" inside the printer. Like a dog leaving its paw prints in wet concrete...

In all of the above inks, the black and red inks are the most troublesome. They tend to crack - they dry out too quickly and shrink quickly, before adhering to the paper fully. Like looking at a dry lake bed. I don't think it really matters here as to what price-level printer you're using - the inks are the same across the brand. Truthfully, not one of the currently-available ink jet inks really work as well as they should with any paper, but some work better than others.

Decal printing easily could consume a thread on this forum by itself (maybe it should), with all of the variables involved. I think it's safe to say ink jet decals are the low-man-on-totem-pole when it comes to output quality. They're cheap to produce because the printers are cheap to purchase. But they're absolutely not the best quality you can achieve. The laser printers produce a higher quality print. There used to be a third type of printer, made by Alps, that was a favorite with professionals and hobbyists alike because of its consistent sharp output. These could even print the metallic colors. Sadly, they're OOP now.

We have a few individuals on this forum who do decals professionally, and I'm sure they could tell you what's available in the high-end range of printer equipment. For the DIY type, however, it sometimes takes plunking down some green and accepting whatever comes out. I don't mean to scare you off; try a few sheets of each and see if you get the quality you really want or expect. You may have to find another printer from another manufacturer if it doesn't do what you want. You may also have to experiment with refill inks to see if the quality improves or degrades. Last, you may have to pick up a low-end laser printer (about $300-$400 these days) to get a really decent decal that you're satisfied with.

(With apologies to APP) Try Anything Once! :D

[scigs30]

If you can ever find a working Alps printer, MD1000 or MD5000 for under 200 dollars, buy it. Then stock as many ink ribbons as you can. This printer is no longer made, what a shame. I have 2 and a stock pile of cartridges. I found with a little practice you can make decals look as good as the orig. I am sure someday there will be an affordable printer for decals, but not as of right now. There is an Alps Yahoo group that discusses this.

[ScaleNut]

I know of one locally for sale,how much are the ink ribbons ? can a ribbon be used repeatably? (if that makes sense) or is it like the old typewriter ribbon

[Gingerdawg]

I have had good luck with color laser prints on laser decal paper. I do not own a color laser printer, but the local Kinko's does. ;) I had one kinko's guy refuse to print it, saying he didn't want to "gum up his printer", but another guy did it without question. I think it cost $0.95 per page. Their printers are nice, high end color lasers that gave nice crisp images. They still can't do white or metallics like an ALPS can.

[scigs30]

I know of one locally for sale,how much are the ink ribbons ? can a ribbon be used repeatably? (if that makes sense) or is it like the old typewriter ribbon

White- 15.00 dollars
Colors-8.00

There might be away of refilling, but it is still in its beginning stages.

[dbrent]

There are quite a few on Ebay right now.

If your primary use is decals, is there a noticable difference between the 1000 and 5000?

As I understand it this is the preferred method of printing your own decal...right?

Which decal paper do you use with an ALPS?

Are there current (Windows XP, VISTA) drivers for it?

[scigs30]

I have the 2 Md-1000 and I love them. I have never used the Md-5000. I use Bare Metal decal film and Papa Tango decal film. After I print them out I coat the decals with liquid decal film. I run my Alps with Xp, Yahoo has a alps group that is very helpful. The thing I like is that when I build my vintage Estes rockets, I am able to first scan the orig. decal. I then re-draw to exact detail in Corel. Before I use the orig. decal I print color samples on my Alps so that I can make the same color as the orig.

[kurtschachner]

AFAIK there are no Vista drivers. Apart from that though, I also have a couple Alps printers and they are very useful for making decals. The images are very soft however and do not hold up as well as real screen-printed decals. The printers are also pretty finicky and take some care to get good results.

The differences between the 5000 and the 1000 is that the 5000 will print the metal foil ribbons whereas the 1000 will not. Both will print "metallic" silver and gold but just not the "foil" ribbons. There is also a 1300 which is like the 1000 but can use the dye sublimation cartridges (long discontinued).

Most of the printers work with Windows computers and can work with a pre-OSX Macintosh with the Alps SCSI adapter. The exception to this rule is the 2300 which came in either a Mac or a Windows version. They cannot be converted.

One other thing. The 2300 is listed as not being able to print white but by swapping a metalic label on the white cartridge, most will print white. FWIW you might check out getting a Mac 2300 printer (they usually go for very cheap), an old Mac 7600 (any 7000-series Macintosh) and some cheap Mac-version drawing program like Illustrator v.6. Just make sure the Macintosh is pre-OSX (OS version 9 or lower).This is essentially what I have and it does just fine printing whatever decals I want to print. The big advantage to the 2300 is that it has a straight-through paper path rather than curling it around. I imagine you could pick this whole mess up for around $100 on eBay if you were lucky.

Please note that Alps has discontinued any support for these printers.

[JoeLaunchman]

Testor's has a decal kit which includes software (upgrade disk available), paper (white or clear half-sheets) and bonding spray. The software seems to be mainly for model cars but it includes a text inserting feature that allows for all sorts of fonts, colors etc. which I've used to create name decals for my self-designed rockets. Of course, you can just use a word processing program to generate text, capture images etc., and print them on the decal paper.

The Testor's kit is here: http://www.decalgear.com/DG/Product.asp?ProdCode=62101-1

[pantherjon]

I got that Testor's kit..Works pretty well..I mainly use the text feature..When I first got it I went in and made up a few designs for my scratch built and a couple kits that came without decals..Went and printed them, and like a dummy forgot to look on the back of the decal paper to see if it was the white sheet or clear sheet-in the kit you get 1 of each 1/2 sheets..Well, it was the white paper and I wanted the decals on the clear!ARRRRGH! Now, I am almost out of ink, Wal*Mart never seems to have any of the cartridges I need in stock-guess I need to order that online..Need some more decal paper...It never ends..lol..Where can I order some TIME online? :p