Scorpion 2 stage fin cans

[Green Dragon]

I know this has been mentioned / debated before, but I've been wanting to build this for a while and wanted to make certain ....

question is - what fin units are actually correct for this bird ? ( # 1333, I think ) .

I remember the vintage ones we had - for CERTAIN had ORANGE cans, and have always thought they were Challenger 1 cans ( diamond airfoil ) ,

However, it was mentioned here :

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=735&highlight=writer+cone

that they were the 'tapered' version ( currently in use ) , and possibly the first use of that can .

can someone with an original kit , builtup or sealed, confirm this ?

thanks a million .

~ AL

ps: any decals ? Phred ? :D

[Rocketking]

This kit utilizes the current fin can from the 'Skywriter' kit. Yes, the original PFU's were orange colored, but since this bird gets painted anyway, the color of the plastic doesn't matter...

If there's any other specific questions, I can try to field them. I flew this baby in the past year. Just wish I could get B6-0 engines in the three-packs...

The decals that I had in the pile were given away to a buddy with the components for a kit.

Sorry!

[Green Dragon]

Glen,

thanks for the info , it's one that I;ve been unsure on the fincan use for a long time, and although I'm not that anal that I would not use the current cans ( if wrong), I do have a
junkbox Challenger 1, plus one spare can , that I could make it ' correct'' if need be - however, knowing I can use the Skywriter cans ( I have 5-6 of those from kits I bought for the cones :) , then I can save the other fin unit for a Kadet clone or something.

Bummer on the decals, would have grabbed those, but hope they went on a nice builtup ... been waiting semi-patiently for someone to draw these / offer them up - was just last year, iirc, that a scanned set finally turned up on YORP , prior to that it was one of the 'holy grails'.

Will have to start on this this week sometime, I have the short booster tube cut, main tube is just an 18" piece, so since I know what cans to use ..... :p

~ AL

[Green Dragon]

the next question of course = what birds DID use the 'diamond airfoil' cans then ?


Challenger 1 of course.

Kadet used the same 2 piece cone and fin can.

not sure on others ... Star Trek ?, Star Wars Torpedo ? ( my bro had one, but don;t recall the details, would love to pick one up or clone it if anyone has a wrap to scan :) , DUNE ?

according to Craig's notes on the expanded kit list on YORP, the 'Star Trek' is listed as 'possible first use of this can ', of which I would have to say the Challenger should have been first ? or concurrent release ?
of is it first use of the revised can ?

I believe the Dune plans , as posted, show the 2 piece cone and - therefor - the diamond fin can. but who knows what was actually used.

comments appreciated. :D

~ AL

[tbzep]

The Star Trek rocket used the same fin can and nose cone unit except that it was yellow plastic instead of green. I've got an original Challenger 1 and the fin can and nosecone from a Star Trek rocket that I painted in a feeble attempt to make a Challenger 1 clone. It doesn't look right painted.

[CPMcGraw]

...according to Craig's notes on the expanded kit list on YORP, the 'Star Trek' is listed as 'possible first use of this can ', of which I would have to say the Challenger should have been first ? or concurrent release ?
of is it first use of the revised can ?

~ AL

The Star Trek Starter Set actually pre-dates the Challenger-1 by one calendar year. The Star Trek Starter Set, #1418, shows up in the 1976 catalog on pages 4&5, while the Challenger-1 Starter Set, #1416, doesn't show up until 1977 on the same pages.

The reality is probably that they were both planned for at the same time, since they are identical except for the body wrap and plastic color (and box art...). But from the catalog perspective, the ST set was released first, likely to try and milk the last remaining drops of blood out of the animated series which was still showing around that time. The show had already gone OOP before Estes got the set out of the factory...

[Vanel]

After seeing this thread I dug out my old Scorpion booster - the sustainer was lost long ago - and compared it to the Skywriter. Sure enough, the fin cans are identical, with no diamond shape (see pic).

I would really love to clone this one, as it is my 2nd favorite 2 stager (my fav is the Centuri Stiletto), but I can't print white with my laser, and the decals are loaded with white :(

[CPMcGraw]

After seeing this thread I dug out my old Scorpion booster - the sustainer was lost long ago - and compared it to the Skywriter. Sure enough, the fin cans are identical, with no diamond shape (see pic).

I would really love to clone this one, as it is my 2nd favorite 2 stager (my fav is the Centuri Stiletto), but I can't print white with my laser, and the decals are loaded with white :(

Did the kit have a true waterslide, or was it a full / partial body wrap of sticky paper?

Could you possibly do a "reverse" decal, where you print a solid block of black (or red, matching the color of the model) onto a white sheet, carefully not printing anything where the white lettering is supposed to go?

[Vanel]

The decals were waterslide - Ye Olde Rocket Plans has the instructions and a scan of the decals (which need a little cleaning up).

Your idea has possibilities Craig - I'll have to think about it...

Of course, it would be nice if I could persuade Phred or someone to gen up a set on one of those miraculous ALPS printers :D

[Green Dragon]

Of course, it would be nice if I could persuade Phred or someone to gen up a set on one of those miraculous ALPS printers :D


Keep begging for decals, someone might listen , lol :D

( maybe now Phred has his Hen Grenade done :) )

~ AL

[Phred]

OK guys, I heard ya.... The decal is drawn and is now available on the website under 'Classic Waterslide"/"ESTES".

Enjoy!!

Phred

[Green Dragon]

OK guys, I heard ya.... The decal is drawn and is now available on the website under 'Classic Waterslide"/"ESTES".

Enjoy!!

Phred

Phred !!!!!!!

Have to say that you rock !

AL runs around yelling ' yipee' , been wanting to build one of these forever, since my friend Scott had a few of those back in the 80's ...

order soon ( and the Alpha is in the mail, * evil grin * )

~ AL

[Vanel]

Just finished my Scorpion - pardon the poor pic quality.

It didn't turn out too bad - in large part due to Phred's very nice decals! :D

Also manage to finish my Vulcan clone...

[PaulK]

Just finished my Scorpion - pardon the poor pic quality.Nice paint job. Enjoy the booster before it core samples ;)

[tbzep]

Nice paint job. Enjoy the booster before it core samples ;)

LOL! It might be a good idea to get an old Generic E2X or equivalent and make yourself a "Stunt Booster". Paint it like the original and use it for flight, then put the original back on for display. ;)

[Vanel]

I still have the booster from my original Scorpion (see pic) - as I recall, it never core sampled. My problem was loosing the sustainer :p Too fond of the C6-0, C6-7 combo :D

Still, I don't doubt what you said - guess I'll have to pick up another Skywriter kit to cannibalize for the spare booster ;)

[John Brohm]

I know this has been mentioned / debated before, but I've been wanting to build this for a while and wanted to make certain ....

question is - what fin units are actually correct for this bird ? ( # 1333, I think ) .

...<stuff snipped>...

However, it was mentioned here :

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=735&highlight=writer+cone

that they were the 'tapered' version ( currently in use ) , and possibly the first use of that can .

can someone with an original kit , builtup or sealed, confirm this ?

thanks a million .

~ AL



Hi Al;

When I wrote that note in the thread you referenced, it was with the various kits in hand. I see that others have also confirmed the finding.

Best of luck with your clone;

[John Brohm]

the next question of course = what birds DID use the 'diamond airfoil' cans then ?


Challenger 1 of course.

...<much stuff snipped>...

~ AL

Hi Al;

One of the lists I've prepared for YORS is an Estes Fin Can/Kit Reference list. The latest version is with Scott, ready for posting, and includes a photo of each fin can type, including the Challenger I and the Scorpion units.

The present version of the list only covers/references complete one-piece fin cans. Perhaps later versions of the list might move on to include the two-piece types (eg: any of the Chrome Domes, etc.), but for the moment I've tried to capture all of the single unit types.

This list, along with the latest updates to the Book of Tubes and the Nose Cone Reference, is with Scott, and will no doubt be posted soon.

[Meatball 1]

I just noticed this old thread. :)

The Scorpion was one of the first rocket kits I built and painted all by myself (with no parental help) back in the mid-1980's, and it was a favorite to fly that finally got lost in 2003. The plastic fin units very clearly had a mold line mid-fin (shown as double-wedge in the instructions--see link below). The later Mongoose-type fin cans came with an updated instruction sheet which included (among other things) slight modification to centering ring placement to accommodate the different fit inside the newer fin cans.

The Mongoose fins apparently have a wider span than the older fin cans, so the black field decals sit back a bit more from the tip chord, as compared with the original.

You can see a scan of my old instruction sheet here: http://meatballrocketry.com/html/misc/Scorpion1333_JT.pdf and compare with the later version at rocketshoppe.com: http://www.oldrocketplans.com/estes/est1333/est1333.htm.

[Newbomb Turk]

Funny that Vanel (and others) kept losing the sustainers. Walking along the tree line by our flying field in Savannah back in the mid-80s, I found the booster stage of a Scorpion, singe mark on the body tube included. Still have it.