Oldest mass-produced model rocket?

[Leo]

What year, rocket and manufacturer is it?

Anyone know exactely?

[Ltvscout]

What year, rocket and manufacturer is it?

Anyone know exactely?
It would have to be MMI's original rocket (Aerobee Hi or Arcon) from around 1958 I'd guess. Am I correct, Shockie?

[ghrocketman]

I would think that the MMI Aerobee is the oldest (first to be produced).
If you are talking the longest production run, it would probably be the Estes Big Bertha that is still in production.

[Leo]

No, I'm talking about the first ever mass-produced rocket (in the world for that matter).

Are you sure 1958 is the oldest?

[ghrocketman]

I'm sure the Aerobee from MMI is the oldest, but do not know the year.
I do know that Estes first year of model rocket operation was 1958 (50yr anniversary is coming in 2008), not sure about MMI.

[shockwaveriderz]

Without going into my archives, off the top of my head I would say the MMI Aerobee-Hi is the oldest mass produced model rocket. G. Harry stated that the 1st one came off the assembly line on April 14, 1958.


Some might say that the Mark 1 was the first commercial model rocket as Orv tried to sell it under the company name of BAL-Rock in 1954; its my understanding from Randy Lierberman's article about Orv in LAUNCH magazine that there were no buyers. I don't beleive the Carlisle MARk-2 was ever offered for sale as a kit.

I suppose either answer would be correct.

terry dean
nar 16158


ps the ONLY reason I can see that Estes is celebrating its 50th anniversary in 2008 is that in the summer of 1958 G.Harry Stine and Vern Estes met for the first time and discussed Vern making a motor making machine which later became MABEL.

As we all know from recent SR and Launch articles, Estes Enterprises sold MMI 500 motors in January 1959 and continued to sell these "Rock-A-Chute labeled motors during 1959. As Vern stated, at some point in time EE and EI both coexisted and Vern doesn't remember exactly when he incorporated EI and sold off EE. We do know that there was an explosion in MABEL in OCT 1959 so EE was still in Vern's backyard at Tejon St in Denver CO. We also know that there was another explosion of MABEL in early 1960 at the same address. WE also know from what Gleda told us in the SR article that they placed an AD in the May 1960 issue of Popular Mechanics or Popular Science. I am still trying to obtain that 2nd denver newspaper story and the actual magazine that had the add in it. For an Ad to appear in the MAY 1960 issue of a magazine back then it had to be entered at least 90 days in advance of the publication date.

hth

[Rocketflyer]

I'm sure the Aerobee from MMI is the oldest, but do not know the year.
I do know that Estes first year of model rocket operation was 1958 (50yr anniversary is coming in 2008), not sure about MMI.

Year was 1957, shortly after Sputnik.

[Leo]

I was just wondering as I have a toy model rocket made in France from 1953 and a pamphlet from 1952 and thought maybe their are older ones.

[shockwaveriderz]

I was just wondering as I have a toy model rocket made in France from 1953 and a pamphlet from 1952 and thought maybe their are older ones.

but does it use a black powder model rocket motor? does it have an recovery system to it? care to post some pics/scans and such? it would be much appreciated.

Leo, you know this begs the question: what exactly is a model rocket. What makes a model rocket a model rocket? I have pictures and diagrams of "model rockets" from the 1930's..... and guess what they look like? our modern day model rockets, some even had parachute recovery systems and were even STAGED!. But are they TRUE "model rockets" when you take into consideration that they didn't use model rocket motors, but pyrotechnic (fireworks) black powder rocket motors?

a FELLOW country man of your, Reinhold Tiling had parachute, glider and helicopter recovery "model rockets" as they were called in an 1931 Time magazine article, as early as 1928!. Where they "rocket models" "model rockets" ? I guess its in the eye of the beholder?


terry dean
nar 16158

[Leo]

Yes to all your questions.

I'll see if I make a pic of the rocket over the weekend.

I don't remember where I stashed the pamphlet.

[jadebox]

Leo, you know this begs the question: what exactly is a model rocket. What makes a model rocket a model rocket? I have pictures and diagrams of "model rockets" from the 1930's..... and guess what they look like? our modern day model rockets, some even had parachute recovery systems and were even STAGED!. But are they TRUE "model rockets" when you take into consideration that they didn't use model rocket motors, but pyrotechnic (fireworks) black powder rocket motors?

I think the main difference between "model rockets" and these early toy rockets is the use of electrical ignition for model rockets. I saw a flying toy rocket set for sale at a comic book convention a while back that looked very much like a model rocket set. But the motor was ignited using a fuse.

-- Roger

[Rocketcrab]

Let's put a slightly differant spin on the question - what is the currently available modle rocket kit [as we know model rockets to be] that is still in production?

My first guess would the Big Bertha. I think it was offered as a kit @1965, after having been published as a plan by Estes. Another guess would be the Alpha, but I don't think it was made available as a kit until 1966.

Either way, I'm sure someone out there has the correct answer and the documentation to prove it! :cool:

[CPMcGraw]

I think the main difference between "model rockets" and these early toy rockets is the use of electrical ignition for model rockets. I saw a flying toy rocket set for sale at a comic book convention a while back that looked very much like a model rocket set. But the motor was ignited using a fuse.

-- Roger

In one of the magazine articles Stine himself wrote up about the early MMI sets, didn't he indicate he was using fuse ignition early on? Electrical ignition was only developed later to distinguish these models from simple fireworks, mostly to gain the approval of State Fire Marshals and other community officials?

[CPMcGraw]

Let's put a slightly differant spin on the question - what is the currently available modle rocket kit [as we know model rockets to be] that is still in production?

My first guess would the Big Bertha. I think it was offered as a kit @1965, after having been published as a plan by Estes. Another guess would be the Alpha, but I don't think it was made available as a kit until 1966.

If we're talking about continuous, un-interrupted production by the same company, my vote goes with the Big Bertha as well, followed by the Alpha. But, if we're talking about kits that may have been re-introduced at a later date, either by the original company or a new company, and are simply "in production" now, then you have to look at some of SEMROC's Centuri offerings as the originals of these pre-date the BB by a year or more.

[shockwaveriderz]

In one of the magazine articles Stine himself wrote up about the early MMI sets, didn't he indicate he was using fuse ignition early on? Electrical ignition was only developed later to distinguish these models from simple fireworks, mostly to gain the approval of State Fire Marshals and other community officials?

Craig, Yes indeed the original Carlisle rock-a-chutes employed fuse ignition. In fact electrical ignition was developed independently of one another by both Carlisle and Stine, in letters that they wrote to each other in early 1957.

Whats interesting is if you look closely at the Mechanic Illustrated Oct 1957 Cover, you will see that the boy has what appears to be some kind of fuse lighter in his hand smoldering. ALso inside the pages, you can see examples of the boy lighting a fuse igniter ...


And yes indeed again, electrical ignition was developed so as to remove model rockets even further from the thought that they might be fireworks.

hth

terry dean
nar 16158

[jadebox]

In one of the magazine articles Stine himself wrote up about the early MMI sets, didn't he indicate he was using fuse ignition early on? Electrical ignition was only developed later to distinguish these models from simple fireworks, mostly to gain the approval of State Fire Marshals and other community officials?

Yes, some of the photos of I've seen of the early model rocket sets have fuses. But it was the switch to electrical ignition that really differentiated model rocketry from fireworks.

-- Roger

[tbzep]

As has been discussed, there were model rockets before 1958. The question was the first "mass produced" model rocket. That means the new question would be: How many units does one have to produce to be considered "mass produced"? Those rockets from the 20's and 30's, nor Leo's model probably didn't get produced in the same quantity as the MMI and early Estes stuff, but were there enough produced to be considered "mass produced"?

[shockwaveriderz]

As has been discussed, there were model rockets before 1958. The question was the first "mass produced" model rocket. That means the new question would be: How many units does one have to produce to be considered "mass produced"? Those rockets from the 20's and 30's, nor Leo's model probably didn't get produced in the same quantity as the MMI and early Estes stuff, but were there enough produced to be considered "mass produced"?


I would add commercially mass produced... but then mass production in 1930 versus mass production in 1957 might mean differing things ? hhaah just joking.....

Anyway the "model rockets" that I spoke of were aerodynamic test models flown by early members of the experimental committee of the ARS; thats right, the American Rocket Society, today the AIAA.(since 1963) You do know that G. Harry was also an ARS member? Oh Yeah, he was also an editor and then the editor in chief of the "Missiles Away" magazine of the ARS section (club) , The New Mexico-West Texas section of the ARS, Inc. In 1954 he achieved vice-president of this organization. He did all this while working at WSPG. Talk about multi-tasking.


hth

terry dean
nar 16158

[Royatl]

ps the ONLY reason I can see that Estes is celebrating its 50th anniversary in 2008 is that in the summer of 1958 G.Harry Stine and Vern Estes met for the first time and discussed Vern making a motor making machine which later became MABEL.


hth

AFAIK, Mabel is a nickname, not an acronym, so you shouldn't put it in all-caps.

[Rocketflyer]

If we're talking about continuous, un-interrupted production by the same company, my vote goes with the Big Bertha as well, followed by the Alpha. But, if we're talking about kits that may have been re-introduced at a later date, either by the original company or a new company, and are simply "in production" now, then you have to look at some of SEMROC's Centuri offerings as the originals of these pre-date the BB by a year or more.

Has the old Estes Scout been regulated to the bottom of the list? :( That and the Mark? They were before the Bertha. As Estes' truly first model rocket, they sold many thousands I'm sure. I built quite a few of them as they seemed to disappear on the old B3's and B.8's :eek: :p


Jack

NAR 4619 L2

[Ltvscout]

Has the old Estes Scout been regulated to the bottom of the list? :( That and the Mark? They were before the Bertha. As Estes' truly first model rocket, they sold many thousands I'm sure. I built quite a few of them as they seemed to disappear on the old B3's and B.8's
Jack, the Scout and the Mark are no longer in production. The Big Bertha and Alpha are still being made. That's what they were talking about, longest production run.

[barone]

Has the old Estes Scout been regulated to the bottom of the list? :( That and the Mark? They were before the Bertha. As Estes' truly first model rocket, they sold many thousands I'm sure. I built quite a few of them as they seemed to disappear on the old B3's and B.8's :eek: :p


Jack

NAR 4619 L2
Yes, I thought the Scout was the oldest. In another thread, RocketDoctor was saying we should all built Scouts and launch them in celebration of the 50 years.

[SEL]

Yes, I thought the Scout was the oldest. In another thread, RocketDoctor was saying we should all built Scouts and launch them in celebration of the 50 years.

The Scout was the first Estes kit, but it's no longer being made.

S.

[Leo]

Ok, made some pics of the model rocket:

http://www.leo.nutz.de/images/forums/RAK_53.jpg

On the metal box (which also used as launchpad) it says "The toy of the Rocket Age" aswell as in other languages.

The rocket doesn't look like that it has been used.

[barone]

Leo....what was used for propellant?

[tbzep]

Are you going to mod it for Estes D12's? JK :D

Looks neat. :cool:

[shockwaveriderz]

leo: thats interestting to say the least. Could you provide some close up pics of the nose swivel? area? and yes, what does it use for propellant? I'd also like to see that phamplet scanned if possible. so I can translate what it says.

thanks


terry dean
nar 16158

[Leo]

So, I finally found the pamphlet. This one is from 1952.

Outside:
http://www.leo.nutz.de/images/forums/RAK52_Pamphlet_1.jpg

Inside:
http://www.leo.nutz.de/images/forums/RAK52_Pamphlet_2.jpg

The rocket was propelled by a solid propellant engine. However I don't know if it had an ejection charge. The parachute is deployed by pressure to a shaft at apogee which pushes the nose cone out of the body section and then splits open.

So, anyone know of any older model rockets that function like ours?

[shockwaveriderz]

Leo:

This is a very interesting discovery I do beleive. But is it a "model rocket"....? Well I guess that will come down to whatever the defintiion of a model rocket is.

Ok lets review shall we:


1. I have traced the word and use of the word "model rocket" back to a Time magazine article talking about Reinhold Tiling's black powder rocket experiments in 1928-33 in Germany.

Previous to this experimentation we have the combined talents of Max Valier (one of the original founders of the VfR), Frederich Sander( pyrotechnic manufacturer/BP rocket motor expert) and Opel doing their black powder rocket powered trials and experiments.

Herr Tiling demonstarted 3 types of rockets:

1. one with a parachute recovery system
2. one that glided with wings
3. one that autorotated upon descent

Alfred Maul, another German as early as 1904 powered his Camera carrying rockets with Black powder rocket motors and they also had parachute recovery.

Meanwhile in 1903 in France a Henri de Groffigny was experimenting with large BP rocket motors.

here in America, as early as 1935 members of the ARS (American Rocket Society) were building and flying black powder powered rockets in various experiments; they too had parachute recovery . In fact these BP rocket experiments went on through 1939. These rockets were also called "Model Rockets" and the BP rocket motors they used were pyrotechnic skyrockets.



So we have something here in common with all of these "model rockets" so to speak: they all used BP rocket motors either pyrotechnic skyrocket ones, or homemade/handmade ones. This is Amateur Rocketry at its core. Some(most?) of them had functioning parachute ejection systems. Its here where the differences between a "modern" model rocket and "early"model rockets differ: The modern day model rockets used a removable and replaceable BP rocket motor that incorporated and integral delay and ejection charge system. (This is not to say that these early model rockets were not reuseable. In fact they were. You could remove the used/expended skyrocket motor .

Evidence of my other mentions seem to indicate that in some cases BP was used as an ejection charge that had been lit by a fusing /delay system.... in other words, these "early" model rockets used then current fireworks/pyrotechnic means to eject the parachute.

This is a major difference between "early" and "modern" model rockets.

Now to be historically accurate, Orv Carlisle, prior to developing his "integrated" BP model rocket motor, did use a "routed" fusing/delay - ejection charge system... but it soon became apparent , that one intergrated into the actual motor case was of superior design and reliability.

What I am trying to point out here is that the model rocket as devised my Orv Carlsile, was a "system". If you read closely his patent you will see this: his "Rock-A-Chute" system was comprised of a model rocket, a model rocket motor(replaceable) and a recovery system (reuseable). But lets also be clear on this point: Orv Carlisle himself stated that he never patented the BP rocket motor .


THis RAK 52/53 appears to have all 3 of the same attributes. I notice that in the pamplet it uses the word "charge" when to describe its propellant slug. Are we to assume this is BP?

"Charge" I might add is a pyrotechnic term: in pyrotechnics you have "expelling and burst charges ie ejection charges; you have propelling charges; you have delay charges; etc.

Leo, I think this is a great find: I'm trying to reconcille history with what we know and now this "missing link" shows up. Do you have any further information about this toy rocket? Especially about the "charges" it used for propulsion? What about the delay/ejection charge system. How does this perform the parachute recovery? Are there any instruction sheets that you could post that shows assembly and or useage instructions. What is this model made out of? Metal? plastic? what are those "exhaust" looking holes in the body tube... Can you show the nose cone hinge detail? Somewhere I saw a patent that used this "clamshell" nose cone idea.......


thanks in advance LEO!


terry dean

[rocket_james]

Leo, you know this begs the question: what exactly is a model rocket. What makes a model rocket a model rocket?
terry dean
nar 16158

Here's another wrinkle to Leo's question and your question reqarding just what the definition of a model rocket is.
http://www.jetex.org/models/plans/plans-air-rocket.html#astral
The Astral Rocket Plane is indicated as being in production in 1946, but whether that was mass produced or not is a question. I couldn't find any more info about the plane, so I don't know what its means of production was (i.e., mass produced or just a cottage-based production, but the producing company was Astral Mills), but if it used a black powder motor, it was probably one where the modeler had to make their own propellant to put into the motor. That may be the same method of operation of the RAK 52/53 that Leo notes. By the way, I separate model rocket from model rocket engine. For example, Parks water rockets were rockets in the true sense of the word, the propellant was just pressurized water. To me, the definition of a model rocket should not be dependent upon its method of propulsion.
My 2 cents.
James

PS Can you direct me to where the NAR history timeline is posted? I found the 2005 post in OldRockets, but not where it ended up being posted. Tks!

[Ltvscout]

Take a look at the Coaster Super-Son I just posted to YORP. It wasn't mass produced, but is from 1955.

[rocket_james]

That's cool. Thanks for posting it. I wonder what the deal is with the list of Estes' plans. They are still cutting off at about kit 1334, I think.
James

[jadebox]

What makes a model rocket a model rocket?

In my opinion, a "model rocket" (as we define it now) could not exist before "model rocketry." So the first model rocket was created when Carlisle and Stine created the idea of "model rocketry" - a safe and exciting hobby built around re-usable rockets and electrically-ignited, commercially-available motors with built-in ejection charges.

-- Roger

[Rocket Doctor]

Yes, I thought the Scout was the oldest. In another thread, RocketDoctor was saying we should all built Scouts and launch them in celebration of the 50 years.


I suggested that we build and launch the K-1 Scout because it is the first Estes rocket kit.
This would be fitting for the 50th anniversary of Estes and NARAM 50.
Over the years, there were several versions of the Scout, includeing a mini engine version.

The original version was sent in a mailing tube, the type of mailing tube that motors were sent in

What would be great would be to try to set a launch record with the Scout. Also, Astronaut Jay Apt, took a Scout with him aboard his shuttle flight, and gave that Scout to Vern.

[Ltvscout]

I wonder what the deal is with the list of Estes' plans. They are still cutting off at about kit 1334, I think.
It's something on your end. It works fine in IE and FireFox.

[rocket_james]

It's something on your end. It works fine in IE and FireFox.
Right you are. Last time I visited I had that problem and Scott noted he was having a server issue. Evidently, my browser was picking up the page from my "recent" visit rather than the page after having been fixed. Refreshed the page and voila! It works. Thanks!
James

[Ltvscout]

Right you are. Last time I visited I had that problem and Scott noted he was having a server issue. Evidently, my browser was picking up the page from my "recent" visit rather than the page after having been fixed. Refreshed the page and voila! It works. Thanks!
James
Great! That was an easy fix. ;)

[shockwaveriderz]

rocketjames:

While I would agree with you 100% that the Jetex motors were indeed "rocket" motors, I would disagree with you that they are model rocket motors. Looking at the patent docs and other historical info from the website, it appears they were designed for model aircraft, boats and cars, not actual rockets.

The Jetex units could not propel models from a vertical takeoff due to their week thrust to weight ratio, on the order of 1.x :1 . Jetex style "model rockets' did appear in the later 1950's in response to the advent of the true model rocket.

See the 1951 Space ship Zyra or the 1955 Dan Dare Spacecraft.

rocket powered model aircraft date back to at least 1908. There are numerous instances where model aircraft and skyrocket motors were used together between 1930-1948. Again, I don't think we can call these model rockets.

Just as I don't recognize water rockets as "model rockets" I also have come to the conculsion that Leo's RAk 52/53 is also not a model rocket because it is made out of metal for its strutural componets, ie the nose cone, body tube and fins. Theres no doubt its a Toy rocket or even a model of a rocket or a rocket model, but within the definition of a modern model rocket, it is not. Historically, Model Rocketry was a response to some amateur rocketeers using metal airframes.

I disagree with you about a modlel rocket and its propulsion being separate. When Orv carlisle patented his original rock-a-chute, it was comprised of 3 major interlocking features;

1. used a replaceable BP solid propellant motor which included an integrated delay and ejection charge

2. used a model rocket made out of lightweight materials

3. used a recovery device so you could fly the model again and again like a typical model aircraft.

Theres no doubt in my mind, based upon extensive research that Orv Carlisles model rocket motor was a direct result of pyrotechnic skyrockets and or "driver" rockets. In the fireworks arena, there are 2 types of rockets: skyrockets and driver rockets. The major difference between the two is that skyrockets go vertical and have a cored port; driver rockets on the other hand are end-burning rocket motors that are used on "wheel" type fireworls displays.

This is why Orv himself never patentnted his rock-a-chute model rocket motor: it was just a natural extension of the then current state-of-the-art in pyrotechnic rocket motors.

What Orv did, that was unique and had never done before, is take the BP delay/smoke train and BP ekjection charge aseemblies that uo to that point had been "external" and incorporated these 2 features within his BP rocket motor.

In my mind, you simply cannot have a model rocket without its corresponding model rocket motor.


G. Harry Stine stated the following:

"Model rocketry was a fortuitous synthesis of three
technologies: (a) the ancient art of pyrotechnics, (b) model
aeronautics, and (c) professional astronautics and rocketry.
Although all three of these technologies existed in forms
sophisticated enough to permit the development of model rocketry
prior to 1957, and although many individuals had made partial
syntheses before that time, a social need of sufficient
magnitude did not exist prior to late 1957.

Sputnik-I provided the impetus that created the social
need for model rocketry."

which NAR history timeline are you referring to in OLd Rockets? I quit going to old rockets months ago as IMO it had degenerated into off-topic topics..... Do you mean my Early Modle Rocket Timeline? Its located here (a very old version) in another Ye Old Rocketry Forum thread.



terry dean
nar 16158

[rocket_james]

I guess I was answering relative to Leo's original question (the oldest mass-produced model rocket). Like I stated in my earlier post, the definition of a model rocket becomes somewhat difficult. I totally agree with your statement that "modern model rocketry" began with Carlisle/Stine/Estes, but I still think that is somewhat definitional. So, I was answering only relative to the original question without limiting it to what we consider "modern model rockets."

rocketjames:

While I would agree with you 100% that the Jetex motors were indeed "rocket" motors, I would disagree with you that they are model rocket motors. Looking at the patent docs and other historical info from the website, it appears they were designed for model aircraft, boats and cars, not actual rockets.

This is that whole definition thing, again. For example, based upon that logic, all of the PMC model rockets would not be model rockets because the kits were originally designed for display only.


Just as I don't recognize water rockets as "model rockets" I also have come to the conculsion that Leo's RAk 52/53 is also not a model rocket because it is made out of metal for its strutural componets, ie the nose cone, body tube and fins. Theres no doubt its a Toy rocket or even a model of a rocket or a rocket model, but within the definition of a modern model rocket, it is not. Historically, Model Rocketry was a response to some amateur rocketeers using metal airframes.

Sniff, sniff. I had a lot of fun with my Parks model rockets. I am devastated that they are not considered model rockets.


What Orv did, that was unique and had never done before, is take the BP delay/smoke train and BP ekjection charge aseemblies that uo to that point had been "external" and incorporated these 2 features within his BP rocket motor.

In my mind, you simply cannot have a model rocket without its corresponding model rocket motor.

So, reloadable rocket motors have digressed to the point that they are no longer model rocket motors?


G. Harry Stine stated the following:

"Model rocketry was a fortuitous synthesis of three
technologies: (a) the ancient art of pyrotechnics, (b) model
aeronautics, and (c) professional astronautics and rocketry.
Although all three of these technologies existed in forms
sophisticated enough to permit the development of model rocketry
prior to 1957, and although many individuals had made partial
syntheses before that time, a social need of sufficient
magnitude did not exist prior to late 1957.

Sputnik-I provided the impetus that created the social
need for model rocketry."

Yep, I agree!

which NAR history timeline are you referring to in OLd Rockets? I quit going to old rockets months ago as IMO it had degenerated into off-topic topics..... Do you mean my Early Modle Rocket Timeline? Its located here (a very old version) in another Ye Old Rocketry Forum thread.



terry dean
nar 16158

Oh, that's a shame. I'll miss you in Old Rockets! Which thread here has your timeline? Are you making a more recent version available. I thought it was a good thing to have for folks to review and update.

Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just didn't think Leo's original question really focused on "modern model rocketry." I'm supposing the actual answer to his specific question probably dates back to many thousands of years ago with a Chinese rocket that some boy decided he'd have some fun with. :D

James

[shockwaveriderz]

james:
no arguemnet intended here either. I guess I'm, just way old school or a strict constructionist when it comes to defining what a modle rocket is or isn't. It doesn't mean I'm any more correct than anybody else. In fact, i betcha if you asked 100 rocketeers what a model rocket was you would get 100 answers. Its all good. :-)

My Ealry Model Rocketry History Timeline is located here:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=427

Notice I have not updated it online since 2006: it has been updated offline, but for various reasons, I haven't posted it yet.

hth

terry dean
NAR 16158

[rocket_james]

james:
no arguemnet intended here either. I guess I'm, just way old school or a strict constructionist when it comes to defining what a modle rocket is or isn't. It doesn't mean I'm any more correct than anybody else. In fact, i betcha if you asked 100 rocketeers what a model rocket was you would get 100 answers. Its all good. :-)

Yep. No arguments from me on that. The hobby as we know it definitely started with Carlisle/Stine/Estes.

My Ealry Model Rocketry History Timeline is located here:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=427

Notice I have not updated it online since 2006: it has been updated offline, but for various reasons, I haven't posted it yet.

hth

terry dean
NAR 16158

Thanks for the file. Looking at the entries, I know you wanted to stay in the early '60s, but it seems that there were some key "space race" launches that figured heavily into the success of the hobby. I know you listed Sputnik, but certainly the moon landing was a highlight. Interest in model rocketry probably started to wane a little shortly after that.
James

[total rocket nerd]

I was wondering if anyone could post the plans for the original "mark 1" (MK-1) (or at least some dimetions.
The Nerd

[lessgravity]

Leo - Where is the indication of the date on this rocket?

I found an obscure reference in the German model magazine Flug and Modell Technik that may indicate that this model is from the 1960's. Is there any date reference other than the name "RAK 52" or "RAK 53"?
I will continue to investigate.

[lurker01]

Leo - Where is the indication of the date on this rocket?

I found an obscure reference in the German model magazine Flug and Modell Technik that may indicate that this model is from the 1960's. Is there any date reference other than the name "RAK 52" or "RAK 53"?
I will continue to investigate.


Terry,

The Rak 52 is from the mid 1960s. It was a "modernization" of the old rubber band launched rockets that Europe had during this time. There is an Italian company (the name escapes me, watch me remember right after I hit the send button) that still makes rubber band launched rockets; well stopped back in the 1990s. A couple of them were the Thor and Atlas (they would adopt American space vehicle names for marketing).

The Rak 52 was made in West Germany or at least that is where I have seen them before. They are uncommon - rare; probably because the Jetex/Estes solution, made far better sense, was cheaper and easier to setup and operate. The Rak 52 was NOT the first model rocket or toy "propellant device" on the market. Although to be technical, the American Rocket Society back in the 1930s did have a Sugar + KNO3 rocket that was available to interested buyers, but that doesn't fit the definition of a 'cartridge loaded" reusable rocket as we are familiar with in todays' Estes rockets.


Ah, just remember the Italian company: Quercetti

Here is a site that features one of their rockets named the Mach-X

http://www3.sympatico.ca/norvega/mach/MACHX-ENGLISH.html


I used to play with water, vinegar+soda, rubber band and current rockets, and I found the rubber band launched rockets to be the most fun for their ease of operation, the low costs of operation, and the performance. I could get 300+ feet on a launch and some of the rubber powered rockets became quite sophisticated in their 'pre-programming' of altitude and chute deployment. The link above shows how you could program the rocket to pop the chute at a certain altitude.

I liken these rubber rockets with the freon Vashon kits in that they were very remarkable rockets that never received their due respect.

Robert

[Arley Davis]

In my opinion rockets have been around for hundreds of years in China and they were used in the Civil War, the think is are thay Model Rockets, of course not. Because they are not Models, a model is something that has to be constructed by the purchaser.

Incase some of you did not know you can get many of the older Estes and Centuri kits from the JimZ web site, here is the web site and the Scout instructions.

http://www.dars.org/jimz/rp00.htm

http://www.dars.org/jimz/k-01.htm

Do not forget to click on the Image at the bottom to get information on the rocket.

[Mark II]

Ah, just remember the Italian company: Quercetti

Here is a site that features one of their rockets named the Mach-X

http://www3.sympatico.ca/norvega/mach/MACHX-ENGLISH.html


I used to play with water, vinegar+soda, rubber band and current rockets, and I found the rubber band launched rockets to be the most fun for their ease of operation, the low costs of operation, and the performance. I could get 300+ feet on a launch and some of the rubber powered rockets became quite sophisticated in their 'pre-programming' of altitude and chute deployment. The link above shows how you could program the rocket to pop the chute at a certain altitude.
Proto-Flics??? :D

I liken these rubber rockets with the freon Vashon kits in that they were very remarkable rockets that never received their due respect.

Robert
Well, perhaps, but didn't it also became illegal to knowingly and intentionally vent Freon or other gaseous CFCs into the atmosphere? (And yes, I know that cold-power rockets used very little Freon...)

Mark