Astron Scout

[ga1ba2]

I want to build an Astron Scout since it was my very first rocket. I can find the plans on line but how do I go about getting the parts? If I ask a vendor like Semroc will they know what I need?
Thanks in advance

[CPMcGraw]

I want to build an Astron Scout since it was my very first rocket. I can find the plans on line but how do I go about getting the parts? If I ask a vendor like Semroc will they know what I need?
Thanks in advance

SEMROC has the nose cone and the body tube already on their website. All you need to do is go order a set directly, and Carl will have it to you quickly.

Nose Cone: BNC-30D (http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=597) $2.05
Body Tube: BT-30A (http://www.semroc.com/Store/Products/BodyTubes.asp) $0.60

You'll have to bend a piece of music wire for the motor hook, and get some 3/16" thick balsa to make those fins (BFS-60 = 3/16"). You'll have to provide your own vent hole at the top of the tube. :D

[dwmzmm]

I got the parts to build me a clone of the Astron Scout, I just haven't gotten around to
getting started...... :rolleyes:

[Carl@Semroc]

We should have all the parts before too much longer. It is a very high priority. :D

[PaulK]

Hmm, guess I'm not the only one thinking about this. I ordered parts from semroc a while ago to build two of these. I found 3 sets of plans online, and the fin sizes & shapes all seem a bit different, so I went off an original that I built around 1975. I decided to go with 3 vent holes; my original has only one, and when I launched it last year, the 1/2A6-2 ejection charge tore the music wire engine hook right through the gauze reinforcing. I noticed that Carl has laser cut fins now too!

[Doug Sams]

...the 1/2A6-2 ejection charge tore the music wire engine hook right through the gauze reinforcing.Another shotgun ejection charge. (Doesn't that make them fireworks? :) )

That's why I made the hole in my Scout oversize, hoping that would provide some defense against the shotgun motors. I only flew it once or twice, then retired it. I built it mainly for nostalgia, and can't fathom the thought of tearing it up.

Those of you who can fly these regularly get my kudos. My experience with them is that they're kind of finicky. Sometimes the motor slips the hook and they lawn dart in. Sometimes the motor doesn't shift aft (and they lawn dart in). The fin joints tend to crack due to the G loads when lawn darting. And even when they do tumble as designed, they tend to crack fins. So my take is they're kinda high maintenance. I have enough trouble putting up with high maintenance women; I don't need that in a rocket :D

Doug

OB pic
http://home.flash.net/~samily/SSS/sss4-2.jpg

[Bob H]

Those of you who can fly these regularly get my kudos. My experience with them is that they're kind of finicky. Sometimes the motor slips the hook and they lawn dart in. Sometimes the motor doesn't shift aft (and they lawn dart in). The fin joints tend to crack due to the G loads when lawn darting. And even when they do tumble as designed, they tend to crack fins. So my take is they're kinda high maintenance. I have enough trouble putting up with high maintenance women; I don't need that in a rocket :D

DougMy Astron Sprite was built in 1967 and has flown probably a couple dozen times. Ever since I bent the end of the hook upward slightly and inward where it meets the body tube, I haven't had a motor slip past the hook.

It wasn't the greatest contruction job when it was built (sandpaper?? whats that?) but it hasn't needed any repairs in all of those flights.

Of course I never flew it over any real hard surfaces either.

My Astron Scout, on the other hand, mostly spit the motor no matter what I did. I don't recall exactly what happened to it but my guess is that I lost it rather than broke it.

[barone]

Anybody ever try a wire twisty thingy tied around the motor and music wire? Tied loosely, it seems to me it would permit the motor to slide back but also keep it against the motor hook so the hook catches the motor. :confused:

[Mark II]

Anybody ever try a wire twisty thingy tied around the motor and music wire? Tied loosely, it seems to me it would permit the motor to slide back but also keep it against the motor hook so the hook catches the motor. :confused:
Do you mean like a loop under the aft end of the body tube? GREAT IDEA!! I will try that on my FlisKits Tumbleweed, which always loses the motor.

Mark K.

[tquigg]

Astron Scout! My very first rocket that I built and flew! I still recall pushing the button and watching that rocket drive itself into a clear blue spring sky, out of sight and lost, but forever in my heart. ;)

Nice clones folks! Thanks for the memories!

[Carl@Semroc]

Anybody ever try a wire twisty thingy tied around the motor and music wire? Tied loosely, it seems to me it would permit the motor to slide back but also keep it against the motor hook so the hook catches the motor. :confused:One of the things I had long forgotten was that at ignition, the engine slides about 3/8" forward into the tube while firing. This would make any external wring fall free. Another thing I remember is bending the hook inward so the engine casing wedged in the down position.

[Mark II]

Hmm, guess I'm not the only one thinking about this. I ordered parts from semroc a while ago to build two of these. I found 3 sets of plans online, and the fin sizes & shapes all seem a bit different, so I went off an original that I built around 1975. I decided to go with 3 vent holes; my original has only one, and when I launched it last year, the 1/2A6-2 ejection charge tore the music wire engine hook right through the gauze reinforcing. I noticed that Carl has laser cut fins now too!
I built a Scout clone last summer, using Semroc parts ordered individually from their site, and supplemented with materials that I already had on hand. Instead of gauze, I used cloth coated with 30 minute epoxy instead of white glue. Very strong fin joints, but I wouldn't necessarily go with cloth reinforcements if I build another one - they made the joints very thick, and I had to do a fair amount of sanding to level and smooth them out. I would probably still use the cloth to reinforce the motor hook, though. The epoxy worked great; it was quite sandable even though I hadn't added any filler to it.

I used a length of steel music wire for the motor hook. I bent it to the exact shape shown in the supplement to the posted plans. With the cloth and epoxy reinforcement, it is solidly anchored to the tube, and has very little flex.

I also covered the bottom face of the nose cone with a little bit of epoxy after I glued it into the BT in order to help it resist damage from the motor's ejection charge. I used a conventional handheld paper punch to make the three vent holes. Afterwards, I wicked some thin CA around the edges of the vent holes to strengthen them.

My one launch of the Scout so far was with an A8-5. Despite somewhat windy conditions, it shot straight up to about 500-600 ft. Although the ejection charge was quite loud, it didn't do any damage to the model. And that hook held the motor!, resulting in a textbook tumble recovery! Because the motor jumps up into the body tube at ignition with this design, it did get some charring on the inside edges of all three fins, extending halfway down each fin. My model was unpainted, but the fins had been filled and sanded smooth. If you build a Scout, I would suggest painting the fins with a high temp paint.

Using a no-flex music wire motor hook worked better at retaining the motor than anything else that I've tried so far in similarly designed rockets, and I might try using an adapted version of it instead of a normal motor hook in my next Astron Sprite project. It does take good pliers and some patience to make a hook that matches Pete Alway's diagram, but the result is worth it, and I would recommend using that diagram as your guide for making the motor hook.

Mark K.

[Doug Sams]

Because the motor jumps up into the body tube at ignition with this design (snip) I haven't flown mine that way. Instead, I always made sure there was just enough stiction to keep the motor all the way forward while on the pad. My rationale was that this added friction would also tend to scrub off momentum as the motor slid aft at ejection thereby reducing the chances of slipping the hook (or worse). Of course, in the case of shotgun ejection charges, the freer the better (edit: so as to let the pressure subside faster).

Maybe I'll have to build another one and try it your way :)

FWIW, I have a Scout III I need to build, too (one of these days).

Doug

[Rocket Doctor]

Don't use a twist tie. The Scout has a thin copper wire that holds the engine in place, after the engine is thustered backwards from the ejection charge and is captured by the hook, it changes the center of gravity and the Scout tumbles down, if for some reason the twist tie gets caught up, it won't work.

I will be making an announcement in a day or two about the availability of Scouts and it will be posted under the Rocket Doctyor thread.
This will be an exciting announcement and I am working on it right now, can't reveal it until a day or so, so,, please be watching for this historic announcement.
Thanks

[Mark II]

One of the things I had long forgotten was that at ignition, the engine slides about 3/8" forward into the tube while firing. This would make any external wring fall free. Another thing I remember is bending the hook inward so the engine casing wedged in the down position.
Oh, I think that I must have totally misunderstood Don's post - I thought that he was talking about attaching a circular bail made of thin wire part way down the motor hook. When the motor moved aft at ejection time, it would slip through the circular bail or bracket on its way to the "hook" part of the engine hook. After it was stopped by the hook, the bail would keep the motor from being flipped out and away from the rocket. After reading your response, I realized that I had read the first post all wrong. Late nights combined with early mornings (i.e., burning the candle at both ends) will do that to you. :o

Mark

[barone]

Oh, I think that I must have totally misunderstood Don's post - I thought that he was talking about attaching a circular bail made of thin wire part way down the motor hook. When the motor moved aft at ejection time, it would slip through the circular bail or bracket on its way to the "hook" part of the engine hook. After it was stopped by the hook, the bail would keep the motor from being flipped out and away from the rocket. After reading your response, I realized that I had read the first post all wrong. Late nights combined with early mornings (i.e., burning the candle at both ends) will do that to you. :o

Mark
No, that's what I meant. But it sounds like the motor moves forward to a point that the wire wouldn't be holding the motor against the hook.

[Doug Sams]

The Scout has a thin copper wire that holds the engine in place, I threw that out on mine. I futzed around with it and decided it was gonna be suspect. I also read they break off fairly easily. So that's why I simply make sure, using a bit of tape, that there's enough friction to hold the motor in place (but only a minimal amount).

Doug

[Doug Sams]

No, that's what I meant. But it sounds like the motor moves forward to a point that the wire wouldn't be holding the motor against the hook.I planned something like that, too. http://home.flash.net/~samily/SSS/Scout-Hook.pdf

There was some egg on my face when I realized the motor slides all the way in :(

Doug


.

[kurtschachner]

I threw that out on mine. I futzed around with it and decided it was gonna be suspect. I also read they break off fairly easily. So that's why I simply make sure, using a bit of tape, that there's enough friction to hold the motor in place (but only a minimal amount).

Doug

If anyone wants some of this wire (the correct diameter too), let me know. I have a fairly large reel that I bought about 10 years ago that only has about 2" used. I'd be quite willing to "share the joy" ;)

[Doug Sams]

If anyone wants some of this wire (the correct diameter too), let me know. I have a fairly large reel that I bought about 10 years ago that only has about 2" used. I'd be quite willing to "share the joy" ;)I'm surprisingly (to me) compromising on rocketry. For example, I can forego lots of the "authentic" aspects of cloning, knowing that nobody can tell from the spectator line that the nosecone is plastic underneath the paint, but like Kurt, I have a bunch of stuff around the house where I just had to have some exact thing with the result that I still have all but 2" of it 10 years later.

I wonder if there's a 12-step program for folks like us.... :D

Doug

[Carl@Semroc]

I wonder if there's a 12-step program for folks like us.... :D

DougIt's only 11-steps... if you use CA.

[kurtschachner]

I wonder if there's a 12-step program for folks like us.... :D

Doug

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?p=23582#post23582

[Doug Sams]

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?p=23582#post23582Excellent!

Doug

[PaulK]

If anyone wants some of this wire (the correct diameter too), let me know. I have a fairly large reel that I bought about 10 years ago that only has about 2" used. I'd be quite willing to "share the joy" ;)I'll take you up on that, if you wouldn't mind bringing a bit to the next launch or meeting. I was planning on using some copper wire I had sitting around the house, but it is thicker than the original. Thanks!

[kurtschachner]

I'll take you up on that, if you wouldn't mind bringing a bit to the next launch or meeting. I was planning on using some copper wire I had sitting around the house, but it is thicker than the original. Thanks!

OK, that and the other thing I promised...now what was that? Oh yeah, some NCW-1s. Now I remember.

[Rocket Doctor]

As I had mentioned previously, the copper wire hold the engine up at ignition, the engine moves forward during thrusting stage, at apogee, the ejection charge drives the motor reward, and is captured by the hook, starting the tumblking process.

Any foreign objects place on or around the motor will impede this process.

Get a copy of the plans/instructions from JimZ and read the operation of the Scout.

Look for the announcement in the Rocket Doctor thread regarding the Golden Scout.

[Green Dragon]

It's only 11-steps... if you use CA.

ROTFLOL !!!!!

Thanks Carl, I needed a good lauch this morning on the way out to work :D

~ AL