Spray paint and acrylic

[F_O_G]

Is it ok to spray paint a rocket and use acrylic automobile paint for detail?

[barone]

Is it ok to spray paint a rocket and use acrylic automobile paint for detail?
You giving up on the epoxy?

[DaveR]

You giving up on the epoxy?
Heh,heh,heh

[Intruder]

I don't see how it could hurt it, but i don't know. Does it hve any alcohol soluble components.

[F_O_G]

Not sure, but it comes in little glass jars from wal*mart.

*ignores barone's and sadmug's comments*

[ScaleNut]

I'm curious ,what do you mean by acrylic automobile paint ? thru a spray gun?

[Intruder]

I'm guessing he means the little modeling paint that comes in 1/4 and 1/2 ounce bottles. If so, I *highly* dought it woud do any harm, but I would thin it with either water or alchohol instead of amonia if you're gonna use an airbrush.

[DaveR]

*ignores barone's and sadmug's comments*

Sorry, but that was funny. :D

[ghrocketman]

Why would anyone attempt to thin ANY paint with AMMONIA ???? :eek:

That just sounds moronic to me. :rolleyes:

[F_O_G]

I think the paint was water based, I was going to check and then on my way I completely forgot what I was doing, but I'll try to check again tonight.

And no, I'm not going to use a spray brush.

[Intruder]

Acrilics are water based, but alchohol will work. In fact, of the two, only alchohol will remove the paint after it dries. Alchohol is a wetting agent though (means it makes more runny and less likely to form drops) so in theory it will be less likly to run if thined with water than it would with alchohol. To Ghrocketman: It has been mentioned several times on this forum that ammonia is one solvent for acrylic paint. I just thought I should say not to use that for F_O_G's intended purpose.

[F_O_G]

I forgot to check again but oh, well.

I have never used ammonia except when told to for anything, seeing the fact that it is ammonia.

[ScaleNut]

a little bit of advice about acrylics
first off,acrylic is not "waterbased" it is "acrylic polymer" based , it should not be thinned with water ,amonia,alcohol,except for a very minute amount one should use the thinner that the manufacture suggests. yes it will clean up with water or just about anything untill it dries but it is not >watercolor.

the acrylics depend on polymers to crosslink and create a strong bond. if you thin them with the wrong stuff you will not get a good bond and the paint can turn to a drippy sticky mess. because you are taking away from the paint when you thin it. thats why it's important to use the manufactures suggestion, they thin the paint but add stripped polymer back into the mix

most of todays acrylic paints are far superior to the acrylics that many might remember from the early days. and grandmas thinner recipe no longer applys to many of them.

on a light camo-scheme on a 1/72 aircraft model you can get away with alot more thinning and concoctions . but rockets generaly require much more paint in a solid even color, thats where you will see the difference.

ok sorry back to the thread

[Ltvscout]

most of todays acrylic paints are far superior to the acrylics that many might remember from the early days. and grandmas thinner recipe no longer applys to many of them.
I always wondered what grandma was doing with the spray gun out in the barn. :D

[ScaleNut]

. . .

[Mark II]

a little bit of advice about acrylics
first off,acrylic is not "waterbased" it is "acrylic polymer" based , it should not be thinned with water ,amonia,alcohol,except for a very minute amount one should use the thinner that the manufacture suggests. yes it will clean up with water or just about anything untill it dries but it is not >watercolor.


the acrylics depend on polymers to crosslink and create a strong bond. if you thin them with the wrong stuff you will not get a good bond and the paint can turn to a drippy sticky mess. because you are taking away from the paint when you thin it. thats why it's important to use the manufactures suggestion, they thin the paint but add stripped polymer back into the mix ...
Way, way back in my art student days (not long after the Earth had cooled) those of us who were painters mostly used fine art acrylic paint from tubes (Liquitex was one popular brand). As part of the set-up process at the start of each painting session, along with laying out our palettes and selecting the brushes we would be using, we would all carry small containers over to a special station in the studio, where each one of us would obtain a fresh quantity (a pint to a quart) of an acrylic paint solvent to use during that session. We used that solvent as both a paint thinner and as a brush cleaner. The solvent would come in quite handy whenever we were mixing colors on the palette, which we were doing constantly throughout the painting session. We mixed in small quantities, so we usually only needed to add a few drops at a time with the brush, but it really helped smooth out and even out the colors during mixing. It also improved the flow of the paint off the brush, which really helped when we applied the colors to the canvas. Acrylic paints dry up much more readily than oils; over the course of a session, it would be necessary on occasion to thin up our palette colors, and the solvent came in handy for that as well. Finally, at the end of the session, nothing worked better for cleaning our brushes and palettes (not to mention cleaning hands, arms, faces, etc.) The studio used so much of this stuff that it ensured that a steady supply was delivered every day. Even though it was a powerful solvent, as dispensed it was non-toxic and it was considered to be safe for the environment. A person would have to drink a great quantity of it in a relatively short period of time to experience any ill effects from it. The name of this miracle solvent was dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO).

I think that DHMO is still commonly available at most art supply and hobby shops, and you can also get it at just about any gas station if you bring a approved container (check with your local laws, though).

Mark

[ScaleNut]

thanks for the nice journey back in time.
I have thinned the thick paints for the airbrush (because I had some) ..and had good results with this product.

http://www.liquitex.com/Products/fluidmedairbrush.cfm

some good info can be gleaned from that link as well.

[Mark II]

thanks for the nice journey back in time.
I have thinned the thick paints for the airbrush (because I had some) ..and had good results with this product.

http://www.liquitex.com/Products/fluidmedairbrush.cfm

some good info can be gleaned from that link as well.
Yeah, we only had very primitive technology back then, but we did the best we could with what we had. Thanks for the update.

Mark

[Solomoriah]

Huh. Whenever I've used acrylic paints, I've always used water to thin it; perhaps the artist variety is trickier to work with than the "hobby" paints I use.

[F_O_G]

So are the acrylics in the glass jar and the acrylics used in paintings the same?

[ScaleNut]

no they are not the same .

I posted solid info regarding airbrushing acrylics and I can post some sites that go into more detail about using them in an airbrush
I have dozens of rockets I can post pictures of using acrylics , airbrush medium and so forth
I've been using acrylics exclusivly for 3-4- years now .

thanks for letting me share my opinion and clear up a few facts,thats what makes yorf a great meeting place

If someone else who has posted info as well can show their acrylic airbrush work I would love to see it ....this would be a good thread to show off your work. and give some pointers... as they say, sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.

intruder , solomariah, mark II.. obviously have some to share..right?

[ScaleNut]

I apologise for being agitated, but I have seen and read of a number of people who have seriously tried airbrushing acrylics with bad results.. only to decide they don't like them.

more than not ,,, they had problems spraying it ,thinning it and getting accustomed to it's big differences from other airbrushable paints. and that bothers me somewhat

I really would like to see alot of people using it, I now feel like I come across the wrong way and thats possibly my fault , I don't want to tick off any one. I'm only trying to be helpfull and not argumentive. again I apologise for having the wrong tone. it's been a long week

[Ltvscout]

I saw no problems with your post. I only saw someone passionate about their acrylics!

[Mark II]

Let me take a moment to apologize for possibly muddying up the waters (no pun intended) with my shaggy dog story a few posts back. Although everything I said in that post was true, the point of the whole bit wasn't to contribute any actual information that was relevant to the current discussion. I wrote the post in jest, using the subject of acrylic paint merely as a hook, and then spiraling off from there on a long riff about water. It wasn't meant to be about paint, but about water. To be clear, in that post I was talking about a quite different kind of acrylic paint (fine art acrylic colors, which are formulated for a very different medium and for a very different means of application) than the acrylic paint used in model making. I was just trying to deliver a punch line (and I sure took a long time to get there!), and I did not mean to contradict any of the real information that scalenut had posted about using acrylic paints in model making.

Mark

[ScaleNut]

no problems gents thanks , sometimes it's hard to read what people mean, I have taken some postings the wrong way again. all is good. I'm no expert by any means but have tried alot of things,(ok everything) just posting about my experiences.

Just to to clarify the main thing that I wanted to relay about acrylic airbrush paint.
it is not water based ,,it is water >soluble< but,, it can be cleaned (or thinned sucessfully )with water ,alcohol ect when used very sparingly.

I think alot of the thinning ideas people often post about are a cross over from plastic modelers techniques using the gravity feed color cup and using tiny amounts of paint , tiny amounts of varius thinners, and tiny needles at 20 psi. they work fine untill you try to paint a whole rocket from a bottom feed bottle, thats when the headaches truely begin.

tip dry also becomes a big headache and water or alcohol often makes the issue even worse. the paint starts to sputter and typically people will add >more< water or whatever(dish soap,windex,amonia,windshiel fluid) to try and solve it .. often ending up with an even thinner and runny mixture. this may still be acceptable for panel shading or faded camo effects on a small plastic model.

painting for example a midsize rocket is much different from painting a small model and not easy to master without alot of trial and error.thats why I would highly reccomend prethinned airbrush paint for starters,it eliminates alot of headache right from the start .
ofcourse there are different techniques that work for different people but knowledge of the paint is a big key to understanding how to spray them with great results.

it's hard to get right because there are so many variables involved when spraying any paint with an airbrush, there are a ton of things that can go wrong.

[Intruder]

I am sorry if I relayed any false or controversial information. I based my posts on what little experiments I have done and the one model car I painted with an airbrush. I do not have much experience airbrushing and therefore had no business posting

[ScaleNut]

I think any posts on the subject are valuable, if it may be right ,wrong, missinformed, or whatever it may be .

because it brings the subject up for good discussion, and may clear up some of the grey areas. believe me there is so much of info on the net about airbrushing that it's hard to decipher what is the right way to do anything with an airbrush.

I get a chance to post my experiences ,and have many times !
but I can honestly say that most of the time I talk my technique , I get back some very negative feedback. and I am used to that
I guess the way I do things are not the norm, but thru all the research I have done and results I get ,I don't see what I'm doing wrong...lol

if it spurs someone into trying airbrushing, nomatter what, thats good and all that really matters to me personally. I think it's the absolute best way to paint a rocket and wish more people would try it

[moonzero2]

I apologise for being agitated, but I have seen and read of a number of people who have seriously tried airbrushing acrylics with bad results.. only to decide they don't like them.

more than not ,,, they had problems spraying it ,thinning it and getting accustomed to it's big differences from other airbrushable paints. and that bothers me somewhat

I really would like to see alot of people using it, I now feel like I come across the wrong way and thats possibly my fault , I don't want to tick off any one. I'm only trying to be helpfull and not argumentive. again I apologise for having the wrong tone. it's been a long week

I was reading in "The Handbook of Model Rocketry" by Stein, and he talks about air brushing using acrylics. The one difficult part of air brushing is the cleanup, and if that can be accomplished with water, thats definatley a plus. I've never thought of using acrylics and I may now try air brushing with acrylics. Thank-you for your input.

[F_O_G]

wow, people are very polite here. :)

And just to make sure that you guys know, I'm not going to be airbrushing anything, just using a paintbrush.

[F_O_G]

Could I just use art class acrylic paint on rockets?

[CPMcGraw]

Could I just use art class acrylic paint on rockets?

I've used tube acrylics in my airbrush, with the best results (so far, anyway) from Liquitex products. The really big thing is getting the viscosity right; it's easy to get the paint too thin. Liquitex sells a bottle of "airbrush medium" just for this purpose. You mix in a quantity of this to give the paint some "stickiness", and you finish thinning out the mix with water.

I like the water clean-up idea. It also doesn't bring all of those VOs to the party, which is a good thing if you have to spray around pets or other sensitive living things.

[LeeR]

no they are not the same .

I posted solid info regarding airbrushing acrylics and I can post some sites that go into more detail about using them in an airbrush
I have dozens of rockets I can post pictures of using acrylics , airbrush medium and so forth
I've been using acrylics exclusivly for 3-4- years now .

thanks for letting me share my opinion and clear up a few facts,thats what makes yorf a great meeting place

If someone else who has posted info as well can show their acrylic airbrush work I would love to see it ....this would be a good thread to show off your work. and give some pointers... as they say, sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.

intruder , solomariah, mark II.. obviously have some to share..right?

I've been following a thread on TRF about a Nike Hercules build. The builder, stymye, uses Createx acrylics in an airbrush. He typically uses Krylon white for the base color. His models look incredible. He also has a link to a photo server with lots of examples of his work. I bought a Createx set of 6 colors tonight at Hobby Lobby, using the 40% off. The paints sell for $3.00 a bottle, so pretty reasonable, considering they are pretty good sized (2 oz. I think?). Createx also sells airbrush paints for car detailing. Acrylics sure have come a long way. I asked him for details, He uses clear coat to seal colors, before masking and painting another color.

Here is the link. This mostly shows his work on rivets, but check out his website for his painting work ("pics" link in his sig).
http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=42132

[F_O_G]

I've used tube acrylics in my airbrush, with the best results (so far, anyway) from Liquitex products. The really big thing is getting the viscosity right; it's easy to get the paint too thin. Liquitex sells a bottle of "airbrush medium" just for this purpose. You mix in a quantity of this to give the paint some "stickiness", and you finish thinning out the mix with water.

I like the water clean-up idea. It also doesn't bring all of those VOs to the party, which is a good thing if you have to spray around pets or other sensitive living things.

If I'm not going to use an airbrush do I still have to use the Airbrush medium?

[CPMcGraw]

If I'm not going to use an airbrush do I still have to use the Airbrush medium?

You'd need to look through the other additives in the acrylics section of the craft store to see what is recommended. This additive is intended for spraying the paint, as it has to be thinned down considerably more than you would for simply brush-painting. I'm not a "brush & canvas" person, so I don't usually look in this section myself except for grabbing some color and this one bottle.