best cyanoacrylate cement

[bkent1@mac.com]

All,

Building an aerotech rocket. What is the best form of a medium viscosity cyanoacrylate cement?

Does testor's fit the mold?

Thanks,

Bill Kent

[JRThro]

All,

Building an aerotech rocket. What is the best form of a medium viscosity cyanoacrylate cement?

Does testor's fit the mold?

Thanks,

Bill Kent
Bill,

Cyanoacrylate, or CA, glue is more commonly known as super glue.

Testor's is usually known for its plastic cement, which is used to cement styrene plastic parts together.

Testor's makes a CA glue, which was news to me: http://testors.com/catalog_item.asp?itemNbr=2257

If you really do need medium viscosity CA glue, Testor's is probably not where you want to go. There are usually several brands of CA/super glue available at places like Hobby Lobby, Home Depot, or Lowe's. I know Hobby Lobby has thin, medium, thick, and gel CA glues, and though some people swear by certain brands, I don't know enough to be able to tell one brand from another.

[tbzep]

and though some people swear by certain brands, I don't know enough to be able to tell one brand from another.

I have a feeling only a small handful of companies manufacture CA, then either bottle it under various brands themselves or sell it in bulk for somebody else to bottle.

IIRC, there were some long discussions years ago on r.m.r. about hobby epoxy only having a small number of manufacturers also.

[JRThro]

I have a feeling only a small handful of companies manufacture CA, then either bottle it under various brands themselves or sell it in bulk for somebody else to bottle.

IIRC, there were some long discussions years ago on r.m.r. about hobby epoxy only having a small number of manufacturers also.
I've always thought that bottles for the Extreme Power CA glue that Hobby Lobby sells look awfully "generic."
See here: http://www.craftsetc.com/store/search.aspx?searchTerm=CA+glue

Of course I have no idea where they get their CA glue from, or who packages it; it just looks cheap and generic, though it's worked just fine for me.

[ghrocketman]

As far as medium-viscosity CA goes, I prefer Pacer's Zap-A-Gap or Carl Goldberg Super Jet.
Both are great products.
Great Planes' Medium Pro CA is good as well.
I try to stay away from the "generic" or "hobby store" branded CA's as I have had a few bad experiences with them when building my R/C aircraft kits, most of which center around easily clogging bottles.

[Mark II]

I use Bob Smith Industries (BSI) CA. I have never had any problems with any of their products. But whichever brand you use, I would highly recommend buying your CA from a hobby store or an online store, rather than buying any of the varieties of "super glue" available at your local hardware store or stationary store. I bought CA from the latter for the first couple of years after I became a BAR, until I discovered a hobby shop in my local region of the state. Compared to the Bob Smith's that I use now, the hardware/stationary store CA did not flow as easily and it clumped up readily (it just didn't seem to be as "fresh"). It also didn't seem to hold as well, and, gram for gram, it was substantially more expensive than BSI's products. I also use Bob Smith's accelerator product as well; I definitely wouldn't want to be without it. I could take or leave their Debonder, though (but you will most definitely need to have a debonding agent on hand when you work with CA!). Plain old cheap dollar store nail polish remover works just as well, as does bulk acetone from the hardware store. The bulk acetone is the cheapest, but it evaporates fast, and it will dry out the top layer of your skin more, though (your own skin is where you will most often apply the debonding agent, by the way). One more thing: applying a debonder to remove an incorrectly glued piece also seems to permanently weaken the surface where the piece was glued, in my experience.

If you have accelerator, try to remember to store the whole bottle in a separate container (a plastic ziplock baggie will do) and store it at least 3 feet away from where you store your glue. Also, make sure that your capped or uncapped bottles of CA are in no risk of getting any overspray when you spray the accelarator onto your glue seam!

I haven't had a chance to try Pacer's ZAP CA, but I have seen plenty of people recommend it, and I have heard good things about it, too.

CA glue is a wonderful thing to have, but be aware that it isn't always the best adhesive to use in certain situations. Even if you are just giving it a try, though, I would recommend buying all three of the commonly available viscosities (super-thin, medium, and slow or maxi-cure). You can just buy small bottles to try them out. (Trust me, you will find uses for them!) Each viscosity has its own best uses, will the medium cure CA being the one that you will probably use most often in rocket building.

If you buy CA in larger bottles (it's cheaper that way), be sure to buy extra caps and bottle tips. Both Bob Smith's and Pacer sell packs of these extra parts, and you will need them. You should get into the habit of wiping off the dispensing tip on your bottle of CA before you cap it (and you should always cap it as soon as it is practical after you dispense some glue), but no matter how conscientous you are about this, the tip will eventually clog up so badly that you cannot clear it, or the cap will get so well bonded on that you will not be able to remove it without tearing off the tip, or both. (This usually happens long before the bottle is even half empty, too.)

Mark \\.

[CPMcGraw]

I can still remember the 'original' HotStuff, with the tiny Teflon capillary tube to dispense it.

Pacer ZAP is a really HOT formulation. It produces much more heat when it cures than other "thin viscosity" CAs.

I've used HotStuff, ZAP, BSI, Jet, and the new stuff from Mercury Adhesives (M5T). All of the 'name brand' products are of reasonably good quality, but as noted, some formulations are hotter than others. I like to use a teflon squeeze tube applicator, where I draw off a small quantity and then I can seal up the bottle.

[Mark II]

BTW, I mostly use BSI Maxi-Cure CA for fin fillets on small model rockets. When Maxi-Cure is allowed to cure normally, it ends up creating a slightly flexible, slightly rubbery glue seam. For fin fillets, though, I apply a bead along the fin glue line and immediately smooth it with my finger, which is protected by a nitrile glove. After waiting a few more seconds, I then spray the fillet with BSI Accelerator. This not only immediately cures the CA, but it also makes it cure in a clear, glass-like state that is rock-hard. It provides plenty of support for small fins made from 1/16" balsa. I have even used this technique to make fillets for the thick balsa fins on my Maxi Alpha! Just be sure to apply all of your fillets before spraying on the Accelerator! (Or you can apply the accel with an eye dropper to keep it just on the glue seam itself.)

Mark \\.

[Mark II]

I can still remember the 'original' HotStuff, with the tiny Teflon capillary tube to dispense it.

Pacer ZAP is a really HOT formulation. It produces much more heat when it cures than other "thin viscosity" CAs.

I've used HotStuff, ZAP, BSI, Jet, and the new stuff from Mercury Adhesives (M5T). All of the 'name brand' products are of reasonably good quality, but as noted, some formulations are hotter than others. I like to use a teflon squeeze tube applicator, where I draw off a small quantity and then I can seal up the bottle.
Yes, you will find out just how "hot" this stuff gets if (or rather, when) you ever spill any super-thin CA on your skin. You'll feel like your skin is on fire! (And you will find out in a hurry why you should always have a large quantity of acetone on hand... :rolleyes: ) Also, if you watch carefully, when super-thin CA cures, it emits little puffs of "smoke." (You can see it best in front of a dark background.) Just make sure not to breathe when you are watching this; otherwise, you will feel like you just got hit with pepper spray! :eek:

Mark \\.

[foose4string]

Bob Smith works as good as any...it's packaged under several names....same bottle. Follow Mark II's advice and get the extra tips and caps! TBZep had suggested to me a while back to soak the tips in Acetone. That works pretty well, not perfect, but well. I just saw a new type of cap option (new to me) on the Bob Smith bottles last time I bought my thin(blue bottle) CA. It has a larger tip which looked a little clumsy, but the cap has a pin built inside to keep the hole open and clear when you cap it.

I've used the Zap product before, but I didn't see that it had any great advantage over other brands I've used. I am currently using a Pace CA called Plasti-Zap which I reserve for bonding styrene type plastics to wood or paper, since those plastics become brittle with normal CA. It works very well for that. Plastic cements seem like a better choice than CA for joining plastic to plastic.

[bkent1@mac.com]

Thanks everyone,

I found some Pacer's medium viscosity and will give that a shot.

Very excited to build this rocket, seems like a much more solid structure than the estes rockets and it will be my first breach of the 2K threshold. I'm taking the first few flights on a RMS f40-7W. Can't wait to see the fire and smoke that is more commensurate with a regular rocket launch.

Thanks again for the input...

Bill Kent

[Mark II]

BTW, Bill, which model Aerotech rocket are you building? I've never built one, but a mid-power bird that will get to 2000 ft. has got to be one heck of a screamer. (I'm just getting into MPR myself.)

Mark \\.

[bkent1@mac.com]

Mark,

I've ordered the Aerotech Initiator kit. It comes with a lanuch controller, mantis launch pad and if you get the RMS version...you get the hardware for the reloadable mounting system. You have to order the reloads and I'm getting the F40-7W engine which drives it to 1400 feet. The G engines for it will push it to 2000 feet.

We can hardly wait. The other upside is these engines provide different kinds of lift-offs...some with alot of smoke, some with blue flame....just very cool stuff overall.

Check out the aerotech site...lots of good stuff there.

Thanks,

BK

[tbzep]

Bob Smith is the company I was talking about that was sold under a dozen or more names in the hobby circles. I've used his stuff in 8 oz bottles (and his rebadged stuff) and NHP in 7 oz bottles.

I've mostly used Great Planes CA and the house brands from Danielle's Hobby Shop in Nashville, whatever Hobby Lobby sells, etc. Not much difference in any of them and they all use the same generic bottles, so I can swap nozzles and keep them clean in acetone. :)