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shockwaveriderz
07-28-2008, 12:15 PM
Quest announced the following at NARAM-50. Thanks to our Roy Green who posted this info at TRF.

Quest: D5-0p is out now, 4 and 7 out maybe by October.

BIG NEWS: Announcement of Spring 2009 delivery of the Quest Thunderjet motors.
D8-0,3,5
E12-4,7
F12-4,7
also trying to get a E16-0, and F16-0.
D8 is 24x70, E12 and F12 are 28x100,115.
These are black powder, made by chinese military factory, not fireworks maker. so quality and potency is apparently quite good.



you wanted new DEF BP motors and looks like Quest is gonna deliver.
GO QUEST!

stefanj
07-28-2008, 04:49 PM
Words fail me, so: click (http://www.mutopiaproject.org/ftp/BeethovenLv/ode/ode.mid)

snaquin
07-28-2008, 05:57 PM
Great news indeed!

I have a two stage scratch built that has 29mm motor mounts in both stages. Bring on the F16-0 and F12-7 .....

:)

tbzep
07-28-2008, 06:46 PM
Let's hope these new motors can be sold at real prices (not MSRP) that are competitive with Estes D and E motors. Otherwise, we might as well pay the premium for AP composites. :cool:

shockwaveriderz
07-28-2008, 07:10 PM
Let's hope these new motors can be sold at real prices (not MSRP) that are competitive with Estes D and E motors. Otherwise, we might as well pay the premium for AP composites. :cool:

Bill Stine said these would be priced near comparable AT prices:
$11-12 for the F; $7-8 for the E's and $3-4 for the D's.

These are more than reasonable prices for near full DE and a mid F(say 60nt-sec?)....especially in BP and todays market, when you take into consideration that they come all the way from China.

Plus the D's are much more near a full D (the Estes D is only 17nt-sec) and the E wil be near full E(thats near 37-38Nt-sec) .

Both the E's and F's will obviously require hazmat (because the E will be > 30g and the F will be right at 62.5g) .

So you have a choice : lower total impulse Estes DE or higher Total Impulse Quest DE

Besides, there's nothing like the smell of big BP motors in the morning!.


terry dean

snaquin
07-28-2008, 08:35 PM
Bill Stine said these would be priced near comparable AT prices:
$11-12 for the F; $7-8 for the E's and $3-4 for the D's.

These are more than reasonable prices for near full DE and a mid F(say 60nt-sec?)....especially in BP and todays market, when you take into consideration that they come all the way from China.

Plus the D's are much more near a full D (the Estes D is only 17nt-sec) and the E wil be near full E(thats near 37-38Nt-sec) .

Both the E's and F's will obviously require hazmat (because the E will be > 30g and the F will be right at 62.5g) .

So you have a choice : lower total impulse Estes DE or higher Total Impulse Quest DE

Besides, there's nothing like the smell of big BP motors in the morning!.


terry dean

Terry,

Those are reasonable prices. I'll buy plenty. I'm going to need those E16-0 and F16-0 booster motors!

Did anyone notice the Quest pictures from the NARAM Live link I posted earlier {Evening events Sunday page 2}. I see a two stage prototype in the mix ..... around the middle of the page directly following the pictures of Bill Stine.

http://www.nerys.com/naramlive/naramlive/03sunday/night2.html

Resembles a two stage Nike-Ram. Looks like it has "High-D" as the proposed name on the side of the rocket.

.

ghrocketman
07-29-2008, 11:02 AM
The prices for the D and maybe the E (if the price is $7 or less for the E) seem semi-reasonable in that they are around what it costs for a Aerotech AP composite RMS24 reload in the same impulse class.
The proposed $12 price for a 55 to 60n-sec 45-50% F is considerably higher than the street price for virtually all 80n-sec full 100% F RMS29 reloads. That's WAYYYY too high $$$$ for me unless they can get the impulse up to full F level (which can't be done with BP under the 62.5gr limit).
SU BP engines should cost less (or at most the same as BP and cardboard is FAR cheaper than AP propellant) than an equivalent RMS reload in order for me to be interested in them for anything beyond buying very few to satisfy curiosity unless I'm flying a "fire-n-forget", "send it into orbit " junk heap of a rocket.

EchoVictor
07-29-2008, 11:56 AM
Did anyone notice the Quest pictures from the NARAM Live link I posted earlier {Evening events Sunday page 2}. I see a two stage prototype in the mix ..... around the middle of the page directly following the pictures of Bill Stine.

http://www.nerys.com/naramlive/naramlive/03sunday/night2.html

Resembles a two stage Nike-Ram. Looks like it has "High-D" as the proposed name on the side of the rocket.

.

Based on the shape and tilt of the upper part of that letter, it looks to me like the same "Q" logo that's on the fins. Thus, the name might be "High-Q"....

Later,
EV

Royatl
07-29-2008, 09:37 PM
Based on the shape and tilt of the upper part of that letter, it looks to me like the same "Q" logo that's on the fins. Thus, the name might be "High-Q"....

Later,
EV

You are correct, sir!

snaquin
07-29-2008, 10:42 PM
You are correct, sir!

Roy,

Any idea what size engine mounts that High-Q rocket had? All the displayed rockets appear to have the same size dowel so I can't really tell from the pictures.

.

rokitflite
07-30-2008, 01:26 AM
Lil' Grunt: 24mm X 2.75"
Mean Green: 24mm X 2.75"
Quad Runner: 4 X 18mm X 2.75"
Minotaur: 29mm X 100mm
Eggsecutioner: 29mm X 115mm
High-Q: 29mm X 115mm

Royatl
07-30-2008, 09:11 AM
Roy,

Any idea what size engine mounts that High-Q rocket had? All the displayed rockets appear to have the same size dowel so I can't really tell from the pictures.

.

I see that Rokitflite (the designer) has already piped in with the correct measurements.

Ltvscout
07-30-2008, 02:16 PM
Here is a picture of the flyer for the new motors that was handed out at NARAM. The picture is courtesy of Doug Holverson.

foose4string
07-30-2008, 03:04 PM
Before the product meeting on Sunday evening, Bill Stine was walking around the NARAM field looking like the cat who ate the canary. You could tell he was up to something. He was walking the tent/parking area handing out samples of the new igniters and I took the opportunity to ask him about the new D5 motors and ETA of the D5's with delays. He replied, "Come to the product meeting this evening. You DON'T want to miss this! That question will be answered and much more." And said it with a shi* eatin' grin on his face. :D

shockwaveriderz
07-30-2008, 03:20 PM
Here is a picture of the flyer for the new motors that was handed out at NARAM. The picture is courtesy of Doug Holverson.


ooooooh! and they even come in pretty colors!


what I think wil be cool about thee new Bp motors is that with their moderate average thrusts, we should see thrust durations of 2-3 seconds.


terry dean

barone
07-30-2008, 04:16 PM
Yeah....I like long burning motors. Memories of the FSI F7..... :(

snaquin
07-30-2008, 06:00 PM
Lil' Grunt: 24mm X 2.75"
Mean Green: 24mm X 2.75"
Quad Runner: 4 X 18mm X 2.75"
Minotaur: 29mm X 100mm
Eggsecutioner: 29mm X 115mm
High-Q: 29mm X 115mm

Thanks for posting that information Scott!

So High-Q is a two stage with 29mm power ..... :D

Very cool!

.

ghrocketman
07-31-2008, 11:05 AM
I just hope these do not turn out to be "vaporware" like the 18mm Quest D has that was in development for like 6 years.

foose4string
07-31-2008, 11:48 AM
I just hope these do not turn out to be "vaporware" like the 18mm Quest D has that was in development for like 6 years.


I have to admit I was a little skeptical too, and expressed my skepticism to Rokitflite(Scott) the next day. After all, he came up a very nice kit design called the Raptor, which was announced by Quest a long while back at ihobby(two years ago???) and has yet to be released. The 18mm D's are another example, although I'm not disappointed because the end cost of those just weren't worth the investment. Scott did bring up a very good point, stating that Quest has invested a good deal of money for this new, mid power sized nose cone mold. So they must be pretty confident they can get the certs on these motors. They could still release mid power kits without the motors to go with them, I suppose, but making an announcement like this at NARAM and not coming through would not look good. I will remain optimistic and continue to support Quest no matter what the outcome.

samb
07-31-2008, 11:56 AM
... They could still release mid power kits without the motors to go with them, I suppose, but making an announcement like this at NARAM and not coming through would not look good. I will remain optimistic and continue to support Quest no matter what the outcome.

I couldn't agree more about supporting Quest no matter the outcome. They are still out there swinging and that count for quite alot to me.

Royatl
07-31-2008, 12:03 PM
I just hope these do not turn out to be "vaporware" like the 18mm Quest D has that was in development for like 6 years.

Bill had live motors that he wanted to demo (i held them, or did until Steve Lubliner dropped them as I gave them to him!), but couldn't due to paperwork issues. They looked very clean. Thin casings, brown nozzles with small ports and not much expansion. I figure due to the limit of propellant that the total impulse will be around 50ns.

The D18's were not so vaporware, as they really already existed as Aerotech's D21.
The only difference was that I think Bill was going to take the D21 design and apply chinese manufacturing cost savings. I assume he wasn't able to get the savings he wanted, and mixed with the lukewarm reception from the hobby industry at iHobby 06, that sorta doomed that project.

rokitflite
07-31-2008, 02:35 PM
Aerotech would have made the 18mm Ds, not the Chinese. But like Craig I say what is the point? I would not pay that much for a single flight. The 18mm Ds also only really got to the casing testing point... There are cases of these new BP motors in actual exsistence in his warehouse. They are awaiting certification.

JRThro
07-31-2008, 03:27 PM
Aerotech would have made the 18mm Ds, not the Chinese. But like Craig I say what is the point? I would not pay that much for a single flight. The 18mm Ds also only really got to the casing testing point... There are cases of these new BP motors in actual exsistence in his warehouse. They are awaiting certification.
Pardon me whilst I drool like the BP motor fanboy I am.

Royatl
07-31-2008, 03:49 PM
Aerotech would have made the 18mm Ds, not the Chinese. But like Craig I say what is the point? I would not pay that much for a single flight. The 18mm Ds also only really got to the casing testing point... There are cases of these new BP motors in actual exsistence in his warehouse. They are awaiting certification.

Ok, that's why I never understood the whole situation. To me it only made sense if Quest could sell them for something way cheaper than Aerotech's retail. And the only way I could see that happening is manufacturing in China (or equally cheap location). When I asked Gary about it in Cinncinatti 3 yrs ago it indeed sounded like AT was going to do the manufacturing... and it made my head 'splode. So I prefered to believe the China route!!

snaquin
07-31-2008, 07:41 PM
There are cases of these new BP motors in actual exsistence in his warehouse. They are awaiting certification.

Now that's great news!

:D

.

Initiator001
08-04-2008, 12:24 AM
Here's some pictures I took of the new Quest motors at the Vendor's forum at NARAM-50.

Bob

Phred
08-04-2008, 08:25 AM
I was very impressed with these motors at the vendor forum, and I cannot wait until they are available!!

Phred

shockwaveriderz
08-04-2008, 09:09 AM
I was very impressed with these motors at the vendor forum, and I cannot wait until they are available!!

Phred

I'll be even more impressed when I see them in action and have some specs to look at and NAr S&T announces they have been certified.

terry dean

Intruder
08-04-2008, 09:22 AM
The only problem I have with the new Quest motors (D5, E12, F12) is that they don't fit into ANY of my rockets that I would use them in.

Doug Sams
08-04-2008, 09:47 AM
The only problem I have with the new Quest motors (D5, E12, F12) is that they don't fit into ANY of my rockets that I would use them in.We don't really need a reason to build new rockets, right? But now you do anyway :)

Doug

.

foose4string
08-04-2008, 10:03 AM
Doug is right... I see having to build new rockets around these motors as a good thing. It shakes things up and stimulates the hobby. Forces builders, and hopefully some vendors, to come up with new ideas. This allows the hobby to stay fresh and promotes growth. I'm pretty excited about it.

Intruder
08-04-2008, 10:26 AM
When you look at it that way, it's not all that bad. But still, not being able to use the E12 in my Interceptor-E stinks.

STRMan
08-04-2008, 10:39 AM
When you look at it that way, it's not all that bad. But still, not being able to use the E12 in my Interceptor-E stinks.

There is no way to roll back the clock, but it sounds like a perfect opportunity to get another Interceptor E and make this one with a larger mount. ;)

Doug Sams
08-04-2008, 10:52 AM
When you look at it that way, it's not all that bad. But still, not being able to use the E12 in my Interceptor-E stinks.When you have a plan for building and flying, and you work the plan and have fun flying, there is great satisfaction. Then, when somebody throws you a curve ball, and you realize that if you'd only had some advance warning, you mighta coulda modified your most recent builds to accomodate the new motors, it can be a bit frustrating. I really appreciate that.

What I've learned to do is to periodically re-evaluate and re-arrange my priorities. Sometimes the allure of certain ideas fades, or new ideas are more appealing. Without trashing the existing work, I simply change directions a bit knowing that I'll get back to the abondoned (temporarily) project. Or, alternatively, I go ahead and buy the new thing, then stick it in my round-tuit pile. (Sorta like those B2-0's and my Apogee II.)

The point is to not let this bother you. Buy a few of the new motors, and then fly them when you get around - sooner or later - to building a new bird to fly them in.

HTH.

Doug

.

Rocketflyer
08-04-2008, 11:00 AM
The prices for the D and maybe the E (if the price is $7 or less for the E) seem semi-reasonable in that they are around what it costs for a Aerotech AP composite RMS24 reload in the same impulse class.
The proposed $12 price for a 55 to 60n-sec 45-50% F is considerably higher than the street price for virtually all 80n-sec full 100% F RMS29 reloads. That's WAYYYY too high $$$$ for me unless they can get the impulse up to full F level (which can't be done with BP under the 62.5gr limit).
SU BP engines should cost less (or at most the same as BP and cardboard is FAR cheaper than AP propellant) than an equivalent RMS reload in order for me to be interested in them for anything beyond buying very few to satisfy curiosity unless I'm flying a "fire-n-forget", "send it into orbit " junk heap of a rocket.


Hmmmmm, have you thought that it may be costing more because it comes from OVERSEAS?
At the vendors meeting, Bill said he would try his best to keep the cost down, but you have to realize that he can't eat the cost of having them sent here, that's just crazy.
Cut the guy a break, he is doing what he can.

At dinner, over at Uno's, I sat next to Gary R. He has some things up his sleeve, and when he is ready, he will post. I can tell you that some SU's may be on the way.
Both men are working hard, cut them some slack, Ok?

Both are small companies, and small companies can only do so much at any given time. Scheesh.

ghrocketman
08-04-2008, 01:36 PM
It makes NO sense to produce something OVERSEAS if the production cost+shipping winds up having an overall product street price costing more than producing it here in the USA.
That arguement just does not wash with me nor would it make any sort of reasonable business sense.
That being said, I am glad somebody is producing motors that those not into RMS reloads will buy that offers something that not only competes with Estes, but offers something that they do not.

Rocketflyer
08-04-2008, 02:52 PM
It makes NO sense to produce something OVERSEAS if the production cost+shipping winds up having an overall product street price costing more than producing it here in the USA.
That arguement just does not wash with me nor would it make any sort of reasonable business sense.
That being said, I am glad somebody is producing motors that those not into RMS reloads will buy that offers something that not only competes with Estes, but offers something that they do not.

It won't wash for many reasons. One, Americam wage earners want the big bucks, plus benefits, not minimum wage. Two check out the loops and obstacles you have to go through to get a freaking manfact permit, etc,etc, and other stuff from DOT etc. Getting the picture? The motors from China will STILL be cheaper than those made here in the US, unless you already have some facility in place. Do you have a better idea?

Solomoriah
08-04-2008, 03:51 PM
According to thrustcurve.org, the D5-P burns 4 seconds and has about the peak thrust of an Estes B6 engine... assuming the D5-4 and D5-7 are similar, they'd work WONDERFUL in a middlin' big rocket like my New Centurion.

Which has interchangeable motor mounts... so I just need a mount kit for 20mm to BT-60 and a BT-60 coupler and I'm set!

... rubbing hands together with glee ...

Phred
08-05-2008, 07:33 AM
Hi Gang,

** This is not an attack to any one person or poster, just a general response to many posts I have read over the past few years **

We rocketeers are always asking for more motor variation... B14s, long 13mm Bs, 29mm BPmotors, etc. It seems that everytime BP motor production comes up, I hear: "please bring back the (insert motor here)", and "Why doesn't (insert rocket company name here) care enough about us hardcore rocketeers to make us a a few thousand of XX motors"?

Well, we (and I mean me too) cannot have it both ways. If you want special motors that will not be sold by the millions at Walmart, then we will have to pay more $$ for them. These Thunderjets are essentially boutique motors. They are special motors for special kits. How many of these motors and new kits will be able to be flown at your local ballfield or schoolyard?

These motors and kits are for us, the hobbyist, and we must embrace them.

If the Thunderjets do not sell, we stand the chance that no one else will ventur into the field of smaller run motors.

If they succeed, other manufacturers should be encouraged to provide more motor types, if only out of a sense of competition.

I will get off of my soapbox now....

Phred

Rocketflyer
08-05-2008, 09:09 AM
Hi Gang,

** This is not an attack to any one person or poster, just a general response to many posts I have read over the past few years **

We rocketeers are always asking for more motor variation... B14s, long 13mm Bs, 29mm BPmotors, etc. It seems that everytime BP motor production comes up, I hear: "please bring back the (insert motor here)", and "Why doesn't (insert rocket company name here) care enough about us hardcore rocketeers to make us a a few thousand of XX motors"?

Well, we (and I mean me too) cannot have it both ways. If you want special motors that will not be sold by the millions at Walmart, then we will have to pay more $$ for them. These Thunderjets are essentially boutique motors. They are special motors for special kits. How many of these motors and new kits will be able to be flown at your local ballfield or schoolyard?

These motors and kits are for us, the hobbyist, and we must embrace them.

If the Thunderjets do not sell, we stand the chance that no one else will ventur into the field of smaller run motors.

If they succeed, other manufacturers should be encouraged to provide more motor types, if only out of a sense of competition.

I will get off of my soapbox now....

Phred


Thank You, Phred :D. Personally, I look forward to flying these motors.

shockwaveriderz
08-05-2008, 09:25 AM
As I said over in TRF, Quest made the decision to made their new BP motors in China because that was the less expensive route to go: Bill Stine himself in his recent LAUNCH magazine interview said that he went "Chinese" due to the Euro US Dollar imbalance; ie it was costing him way too much to make and ship motors from Germany.

And evidently his former German partners were clueless or unwilling to make larger BP motors. BP motors over 20 grams in Germany require the US equiavalent of a German LEUP folks.

In addition, the reason he doesn't make his new motor here is because . he would have had to invest a million or 2 just to build a new motor making plant (which he's already done at least twice) and that's before he sold one motor!.


So Quest is using a motor making facility that more or less already been bought for so he's able to offer more product sooner, if he decides there's a market. He's doesn't have to factor in the investment cost by using the Chinese facility; most of his cost is in materials and shipping and marketing.

If he had built a new plant here, it might have been a year or two before a product was produced, and the costs to us would have been much higher. Folks, the good old days or having every motor known to mankind, and having them dirt cheap are over.

SO I say support Bill Stine and Quest for at least trying to change the paradigm by purchasing as many of his new BP motors from China that you can afford too. Otherwise, a few years from now, these too will be OOP, and everybody will still be sitting here bemoaning the fact that there isn't any motor selection.

And if you aren't satisfied with the motor types Quest makes, then approach Bill, and see if he will make what you want. He;s a business man. if you want B14 and are willing to put up say $25-50K up front for a run, then by all mean do so.......

And there's always that Mabel over in Germany that could use some work. I'm sure if you approach the owners with $25-50K they wil make you some motors.

thats my 2 cents.
YMMV

terry dean

Solomoriah
08-05-2008, 09:38 AM
Hey, I'm happy with the new engines... just as soon as I can get a 20mm to BT-60 engine mount and some D5-4's (I've done the math, and my New Centurion will do over 900' on the D5-4; I don't have Rocksim so I'm not sure of the DV...)

... by the way... when will we be able to buy either the engine or the mount? Anyone know?

Doug Sams
08-05-2008, 10:00 AM
We rocketeers are always asking for more motor variation... B14s, long 13mm Bs, 29mm BPmotors, etc. It seems that everytime BP motor production comes up, I hear: "please bring back the (insert motor here)", and "Why doesn't (insert rocket company name here) care enough about us hardcore rocketeers to make us a a few thousand of XX motors"?

Well, we (and I mean me too) cannot have it both ways. If you want special motors that will not be sold by the millions at Walmart, then we will have to pay more $$ for them. These Thunderjets are essentially boutique motors. They are special motors for special kits. How many of these motors and new kits will be able to be flown at your local ballfield or schoolyard?

These motors and kits are for us, the hobbyist, and we must embrace them. (snip) Well put, Phred.

In my few years as a BAR, I've seen the C11 series come and then go. This was the closest thing to a B14 that we've seen, and yet the interest wasn't enough to keep the -7, -5 and -0 alive.

That said, my take on the problem is that when we say we want them, we don't mean we want to buy them and use them right away, but that we want them available for when we get around to it; we want them hanging on the peg hooks at the hobby store forever waiting for us. And therein lies the rub. The stores want to move inventory, not store it indefinitely for when we "get around to it".

So as you said, we need to put our money where our mouths are!

Doug

.

Solomoriah
08-05-2008, 10:36 AM
This is why I think a manufacturer with an "agile" manufacturing method would be able to thrive... this whole business of warehousing could go out the window. Sure, you'd probably have to mail-order all your engines (or have a hobby shop custom order for you) but you could have any engine you wanted. Well, there'd be some limits, of course, but things like 1/2A6-0's and B4-6's would be available if you wanted them. But if nobody actually wanted an engine, none such would be sitting on a shelf gathering dust.

This really is the wave of the future. If building an engine manufacturing facility really costs a million, how much would building an agile facility cost? I'm betting not much more... and it could even be cheaper, since you avoid most of the warehousing (the finished goods anyway, you still have to store raw materials). Make the engines as they are ordered, and ship them as soon as they are packaged. If a retailer wants to keep them on the shelf, that's their business.

conleyt
08-05-2008, 11:55 AM
Hey, I'm happy with the new engines... just as soon as I can get a 20mm to BT-60 engine mount and some D5-4's (I've done the math, and my New Centurion will do over 900' on the D5-4; I don't have Rocksim so I'm not sure of the DV...)

... by the way... when will we be able to buy either the engine or the mount? Anyone know?

I believe Carl said something about Semroc offering motor mounts when the D5s with delays arrive, and Bill said Quest would have tubes soon. Art Applewhite currently offers a 20mm to 24mm adapter.

Tom C.

moonzero2
08-05-2008, 12:06 PM
I believe Carl said something about Semroc offering motor mounts when the D5s with delays arrive, and Bill said Quest would have tubes soon. Art Applewhite currently offers a 20mm to 24mm adapter.
YEA!!! That's the ticket,... a 20mm to 24mm adapter!! :D

barone
08-05-2008, 12:48 PM
.......SO I say support Bill Stine and Quest for at least trying to change the paradigm by purchasing as many of his new BP motors from China that you can afford too. Otherwise, a few years from now, these too will be OOP, and everybody will still be sitting here bemoaning the fact that there isn't any motor selection.......

Well I, for one, plan on buying a few each month whether I use them or not. By the time they do go OOP, I should have a pretty nice stash for all the rockets I haven't built yet..... ;)

Phred
08-11-2008, 02:47 PM
I may be remembering a dream.... but did I remember Bill saying that thrust info wqs available somewhere? Not curves, but other details like burn time, etc.

Again, I am tired, so this may just be wishful thinking...

Ph

Shreadvector
08-11-2008, 02:53 PM
I may be remembering a dream.... but did I remember Bill saying that thrust info wqs available somewhere? Not curves, but other details like burn time, etc.

Again, I am tired, so this may just be wishful thinking...

Ph

For the not yet submitted to S&T Thunderjets, No.

For the already certified Chinese A6, C6 and D5 motors, Yes - online on the NAR website.

Doug Sams
08-11-2008, 03:20 PM
For the not yet submitted to S&T Thunderjets, No.

For the already certified Chinese A6, C6 and D5 motors, Yes - online on the NAR website.http://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Quest/A6_cn.pdf
http://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Quest/C6_cn.pdf
http://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Quest/D5_cn.pdf

I like the new summary table showing the results of the individual firings, but there are no rasp/eng files included. Anybody know what's up with that?

Doug

.

Phred
08-11-2008, 03:21 PM
Thanks Fred

Ph

JRThro
08-11-2008, 03:27 PM
I may be remembering a dream.... but did I remember Bill saying that thrust info was available somewhere? Not curves, but other details like burn time, etc.
Well, I remember that Bill's reply to several questions about that sort of thing was, "What would you like it to be?"

But of course that's not very helpful to you right now.

Royatl
08-11-2008, 04:06 PM
I may be remembering a dream.... but did I remember Bill saying that thrust info wqs available somewhere? Not curves, but other details like burn time, etc.

Again, I am tired, so this may just be wishful thinking...

Ph

Other than saying the E would be a full 40 ns, he remained coy about the specs of the motors. Like, he *wanted* to say, but caught himself before he said too much.

Bob Kaplow
08-11-2008, 04:12 PM
The BP F can't be a full F because of the limits of BP. 62g of BP only gets you to about 50NS. That's all FSI got out of their motors on a good day.

The lesser motors can be as full or wimpy as they decide to make them. It would be really nice if the E would beat out "that other BP E motor" in performance, wouldn't it :-)

Of course it would also be cool to have something like the FSI D20 and E60 available again.

Indiana
08-11-2008, 08:25 PM
Art Applewhite currently offers a 20mm to 24mm adapter.

Tom C.

got link? (I can't find it)

Mark II
08-11-2008, 08:47 PM
got link? (I can't find it)
I think I read somewhere on TRF that Art has taken his D5 stuff off of his website until he can adequately test it, and he can't do that testing right now due to a "burn ban" (what's that?) in his area.

Mark \\

Indiana
08-11-2008, 08:58 PM
Thanks.

States often issue "burn bans" (no trash burning, campfires, rocket launches etc...) during dry conditions to prevent fires.

STRMan
08-11-2008, 09:07 PM
Well, Art can come to Daytona Beach and launch right now. We've had so much rain lately, it isn't funny!

Mark II
08-12-2008, 12:02 AM
And he can come up here any time, too, and test launch his models, if he can keep his igniters dry. :rolleyes:

It's been so long, I've almost forgotten what a dry season was like!

If you'll excuse me now, I've got to get back to building my ark... Then I've got to gather up two of every rocket kit and two of every motor...

Mark \\. (Almighty!)

Nuke Rocketeer
08-12-2008, 06:51 AM
And he can come up here any time, too, and test launch his models, if he can keep his igniters dry. :rolleyes:

It's been so long, I've almost forgotten what a dry season was like!

If you'll excuse me now, I've got to get back to building my ark... Then I've got to gather up two of every rocket kit and two of every motor...

Mark \\. (Almighty!)

Is it this http://uplink.space.com/attachments/325206-Worlds_Collide_124.jpg Ark???

Nuke Rocketeer
08-12-2008, 06:53 AM
I've got some old two stage rockets I built back in the early 90's just begging for these engines.

Mark II
08-12-2008, 08:33 PM
Is it this [picture] Ark???
No, I was thinking of a much, much, much more ancient design, but the version you mentioned looks like a great idea... :)

I'll take it under advisement, but building THAT Ark will need to wait until I can scratch out some room in my microscopic budget for materials and plans. (I truly have no idea when that will happen, though.) :rolleyes: It's a very fitting project for the kind of year that we are having! If I could, I would construct it to fly on either the new Quest E, or maybe on a cluster of the upcoming Quest D's. (Or maybe, maybe, even a cluster of those Quest F12's... Hmmm.... :D )

Mark \\.

ghrocketman
11-15-2012, 09:32 AM
ANYTHING on what happened to the years-ago "Coming SOON" BP E and F Thunderjets ?

Never heard they were dead from the manufacturer after announcing them to be "coming soon" with a lot of hoopla.

Suspect they could not produce and import them for a price point any of us would be willing to pay.

These have tasted like AVI Vaporware hokum for years....

Jerry Irvine
11-15-2012, 09:51 AM
I offered to help him with the importing and CE layer. Crickets. I doubt it is a manufacturing issue. A dozen brands of model rocket motors have been taken off the market for reasons other than willingness and ability to produce, several by an association simply deciding they wanted to back particular horses (AT, Kosdon) vs the alternatives (USR, VUL, PJ, CTI).

CTI was able to get CAR to work its approvals and publish them so there was then pressure for NAR and TRA to recognize the approvals according to an already in-place treaty. Non-Canadian vendors cannot use that trick to overcome USA club politics.

The Quest issue is yet another issue of working out the export approvals and the CE markings required for European products where they come from.

These are difficult, expensive and time consuming problems to overcome. I know first hand having actually obtained HSE, CE, and import/export approvals for our motor products.

But of course NAR/TRA didn't recognize those either. Here's everything they need. :)

Just Jerry

cite:
http://v-serv.com/acs-reactionlabs/HSEsummary2.txt

Ez2cDave
08-27-2013, 11:02 AM
So, where are these motors ???

ghrocketman
08-27-2013, 02:37 PM
Seem to be Pure VAPORWARE just like that 18mm D they were coming out with for years....
Announce with a ton of fanfare then a whole lotta NUTHIN' !

One should always UNDER promise, then OVER deliver, NOT over-promise then under-deliver.

Estes should be out with their 29mm E16 and F15 soon though. Wish they were port-burners like the old Mini-Max motors. A nice F97 (give the boot to that BS CPSC 80n-sec reg) would be great along with a E50.

kevinj
08-27-2013, 03:18 PM
I think that there was no intent to not produce the motors as is being insinuated. Quest was well on the way to complete all of the regulatory requirements to the extent that motors were shipped to the US and were made available to a few people for testing and certification, and then unforeseen further regulatory issues were imposed derailing the process.

I thought they were great motors when I was able to fly some of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghvTpijTb3k&feature=share&list=PL31C260101CA4D2E8

kj

rokitflite
08-27-2013, 04:17 PM
I think that there was no intent to not produce the motors as is being insinuated. Quest was well on the way to complete all of the regulatory requirements to the extent that motors were shipped to the US and were made available to a few people for testing and certification, and then unforeseen further regulatory issues were imposed derailing the process.

I thought they were great motors when I was able to fly some of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghvTpijTb3k&feature=share&list=PL31C260101CA4D2E8

kj


But Kevin, it is easier for some people to bitch and complain rather than actually contribute anything useful to the hobby. Bill and Quest believed in the product 100% and stood to make some money if the product went to market. A LOT of money was spent on the venture. Forces outside of Quest's control killed the project literally weeks before it came to market. The Q2G2s were a result of that venture and THEY seem to be a major plus in the industry.

Those motors were GREAT!!! I still got a few to burn. It represents someone passionate about the hobby trying to move it forward, who ended up getting screwed and losing money as a result. So, for those of you who feel the need to complain and slander 5 years later. Go ahead. Just don't think that you are the ones trying to advance the hobby.

Shreadvector
08-27-2013, 04:29 PM
Well said!

But Kevin, it is easier for some people to bitch and complain rather than actually contribute anything useful to the hobby. Bill and Quest believed in the product 100% and stood to make some money if the product went to market. A LOT of money was spent on the venture. Forces outside of Quest's control killed the project literally weeks before it came to market. The Q2G2s were a result of that venture and THEY seem to be a major plus in the industry.

Those motors were GREAT!!! I still got a few to burn. It represents someone passionate about the hobby trying to move it forward, who ended up getting screwed and losing money as a result. So, for those of you who feel the need to complain and slander 5 years later. Go ahead. Just don't think that you are the ones trying to advance the hobby.

Jerry Irvine
08-27-2013, 06:33 PM
Forces outside of Quest's control killed the project literally weeks before it came to market. What forces?

Ez2cDave
08-27-2013, 09:39 PM
What forces?

That's a very good question . . . What "forces" ?

Initiator001
08-28-2013, 01:43 AM
But Kevin, it is easier for some people to bitch and complain rather than actually contribute anything useful to the hobby. Bill and Quest believed in the product 100% and stood to make some money if the product went to market. A LOT of money was spent on the venture. Forces outside of Quest's control killed the project literally weeks before it came to market. The Q2G2s were a result of that venture and THEY seem to be a major plus in the industry.

Those motors were GREAT!!! I still got a few to burn. It represents someone passionate about the hobby trying to move it forward, who ended up getting screwed and losing money as a result. So, for those of you who feel the need to complain and slander 5 years later. Go ahead. Just don't think that you are the ones trying to advance the hobby.

You got that right, Scott.

The motors were great. I managed to fly two of the D8-3 motors at NARAM-52 in my Quest Big Dog and Hi-Q models. I still have some D8s put away in my collection. ;)

shockwaveriderz
08-28-2013, 01:21 PM
Instead of being an apologist for Quest, and implying their were unforeseen dark forces at work, why don't you JUST tell us what those forces were?

I feel like I'm reading a cliff-hanger novel and now I'll never know the ending. Maybe I should ask the NSA to tell me how it ended.

Terry Dean

Ez2cDave
08-28-2013, 01:36 PM
Instead of being an apologist for Quest, and implying their were unforeseen dark forces at work, why don't you JUST tell us what those forces were?

I feel like I'm reading a cliff-hanger novel and now I'll never know the ending. Maybe I should ask the NSA to tell me how it ended.

Terry Dean

"IT WAS A DARK & STORMY NIGHT . . . "

Hi, Shockie, long time, no hear !

Dave Fitch

rokitflite
08-28-2013, 01:37 PM
You got that right, Scott.

The motors were great. I managed to fly two of the D8-3 motors at NARAM-52 in my Quest Big Dog and Hi-Q models. I still have some D8s put away in my collection. ;)


Bob! I think one of my favorite features were the nozzles! They look so clean! Also the fact that they made an obvious "thrusting" sound all the way up to the ejection charge was way cool. I will eventually fly some with a video camera on board to capture that :D

Ez2cDave
08-28-2013, 01:42 PM
Bob! I think one of my favorite features were the nozzles! They look so clean! Also the fact that they made an obvious "thrusting" sound all the way up to the ejection charge was way cool. I will eventually fly some with a video camera on board to capture that :D


Those nozzles look like "JB WELD" . . . Probably not, however.

kevinj
08-28-2013, 02:00 PM
Why do people feel entitled to know? It's not like they were a financial backer, or had any time or sweat involved. There are any number of reasons a business venture could fall through, and no one but those involved will ever know or can even tell what they know due to confidentiality.

I don't think anyone is being an apologist- but there are people who think they deserve to know everything about everything.

I'm sorry your pee-pee's got hurt about the motors not making it to market. Time to move on.

kj

Ez2cDave
08-28-2013, 02:05 PM
Why do people feel entitled to know? It's not like they were a financial backer, or had any time or sweat involved. There are any number of reasons a business venture could fall through, and no one but those involved will ever know or can even tell what they know due to confidentiality.

I don't think anyone is being an apologist- but there are people who think they deserve to know everything about everything.

I'm sorry your pee-pee's got hurt about the motors not making it to market. Time to move on.

kj

On the flip side, why allude to "nefarious forces", in the first place, and then not back up that claim ?

kevinj
08-28-2013, 02:10 PM
On the flip side, why allude to "nefarious forces", in the first place, and then not back up that claim ?


I don't think anyone said "nefarious forces" until you mentioned it.

Forces can be anything outside of your control. Business forces. Regulatory forces. etc.

Take the tinfoil hat off, Dave.

kj

Ez2cDave
08-28-2013, 02:17 PM
I don't think anyone said "nefarious forces" until you mentioned it.

Forces can be anything outside of your control. Business forces. Regulatory forces. etc.

Take the tinfoil hat off, Dave.

kj

"Rocketflite" first alleged to "forces" . . . I referred to them as "nefarious forces", because the "forces" were "harmful" and had a negative effect on Quest, as related by others.

No tinfoil hat here !

ghrocketman
08-29-2013, 10:14 AM
Don't announce something without being 100% prepared to DELIVER on that announcement.
In my book doing so almost irreversibly tarnishes one's reputation.

I don't think I have ever seen an announcement from Brand "A" that is not delivered.
Never seen that out of Brand "S" with a public announcement either.

Very wisely since the Cylon Raider and BH Cygnus Probe Ship fiascos, brand "E" has wisely not done this.

UNDER promise and OVER deliver, NOT vice versa.

luke strawwalker
08-29-2013, 12:02 PM
Don't announce something without being 100% prepared to DELIVER on that announcement.
In my book doing so almost irreversibly tarnishes one's reputation.

I don't think I have ever seen an announcement from Brand "A" that is not delivered.
Never seen that out of Brand "S" with a public announcement either.

Very wisely since the Cylon Raider and BH Cygnus Probe Ship fiascos, brand "E" has wisely not done this.

UNDER promise and OVER deliver, NOT vice versa.

Quite right...

All this "COMING SOON!!!" stuff that never materializes starts getting very "boy who cried wolf" after awhile...

Now *I* for one am like, when I see this sort of announcement out of certain manufacturers *yawn* "Sure-- I'll believe it when I see it..."

Later! OL JR :)

ghrocketman
08-29-2013, 01:51 PM
I am starting to expect that out of one particular manufacturer.....
Does NOT mean I will stop giving them static about it though.

Having someone bring back a RELIABLE equivalent to the Old Centuri Mini-Max F97 port-burner or an E or even D port-burner would be great.
End-burners are quite frankly borrrrrrriiiinnnnggggggggggg unless on a two-stager that has been launched with a port-burner in the booster.

Used to love to fly my old Astron Avenger on a B14-0 to B4-6 or C6-7 combo.
A flight with an A8-0 to B14-7 was funny too...would launch slow, stage low, then streak off on the B14 !

Ltvscout
08-29-2013, 11:00 PM
A flight with an A8-0 to B14-7 was funny too...would launch slow, stage low, then streak off on the B14 !
I like launching Sprint's on B14-7's. There one second, gone the next.

BEC
08-29-2013, 11:39 PM
Ah - teleportation of a rocket back before the CTI Vmax motors.... :)

ghrocketman
08-30-2013, 12:09 PM
I LOVE to launch the Astron Sprint on the B14-7.
That actually was my go-to motor when possible.
I used to launch it on the C6-7 regularly too and NEVER lost one !