Camroc Carrier

[Green Dragon]

After seeing the camroc carrier pics in another thread ( which for the life of me I can;t find right now, from work, lol ) . I have decided to move this one up in the Que :)

Have had issues printing the fin patterns however... been sizing poorly, not sure it's me or the printer, I generally have NOT had issiues with printing patterns.

hoiwever... frm looking atthe bird and photos, looks to be the same fiuns used on the Astron Sprint ... can anyone confirm of deny this ?

or send a link to a well sized scan, so I can print em out , even witht he ruler included it;s being a pain in the posterior .

Also, if anyone has any spare clear BT60 tubes, I could use a couple :D.. anyone have a source ? estes still have these, as I need one for my Warp II as well.

Thanks for any help, been decalling stuff last few days, pics when finished :)

~ AL

[STRMan]

After seeing the camroc carrier pics in another thread ( which for the life of me I can;t find right now, from work, lol ) . I have decided to move this one up in the Que :)

Have had issues printing the fin patterns however... been sizing poorly, not sure it's me or the printer, I generally have NOT had issiues with printing patterns.

hoiwever... frm looking atthe bird and photos, looks to be the same fiuns used on the Astron Sprint ... can anyone confirm of deny this ?

or send a link to a well sized scan, so I can print em out , even witht he ruler included it;s being a pain in the posterior .

Also, if anyone has any spare clear BT60 tubes, I could use a couple :D.. anyone have a source ? estes still have these, as I need one for my Warp II as well.

Thanks for any help, been decalling stuff last few days, pics when finished :)

~ AL

I've acquired all the parts to clone a Camroc Carrier. For the clear body tube I went to Lowes and purchased a clear tube that is designed to go around the outside of a long fluorescent light bulb. It is the same size as a BT-60, though not quite as rigid. I still think it will be fine. They were out of the 4 ft length tubes the day I bought it, so I got an 8 ft tube. This should last me a while.

[Doug Sams]

After seeing the camroc carrier pics in another thread ( which for the life of me I can;t find right now, from work, lol ) . http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=3725&highlight=camroc

Have had issues printing the fin patterns however... been sizing poorly, not sure it's me or the printer, I generally have NOT had issiues with printing patterns.

hoiwever... frm looking atthe bird and photos, looks to be the same fiuns used on the Astron Sprint ... can anyone confirm of deny this ? I pulled both of the tifs up in Illustrator, and aligned the included reference rulers. The Carrier's fin appears to be about 20-30% larger than the Sprint's.

HTH.

Doug

.

[ghrocketman]

The fins are definitely larger than the Sprint, but are of similar (but NOT exact) shape.

[Green Dragon]

OK, thanks for the input :) , knew you guys would help .

I wil have to hunt for the light covers, I have a few of those now, one fits perfectly OVER a BT60 .... other is very close to ST16 size, making BT60 components somewhat sloppy...

I do have a couple 2 piece vintage cones for the build, so might have to take one to the hardware store with me ( have done that with 7.67" cone, lol, talk abotu looks :P )

As for the fins, will have to keep tweaking until the ruler prints correctly, as noted, have NOT had any issues with printing patterns, and I've tried this one 3-4 times, scaling off, scaling on, etc and it is being ornery... will get it close, lol.

Might get some decals on before I have to go out tonight, so pregress is being made :P

see you all later

~ AL

[Doug Sams]

...I have a few of those now, one fits perfectly OVER a BT60 .... other is very close to ST16 size, making BT60 components somewhat sloppy... I suspect that has more to do with manufacturing variances than the actual ~0.004" spec differences between BT-60 and ST-16 :)

Now if you were putting BT-55 rings in an ST-13, you should see some slop, but with the 60/16 tubes, the differences are (should be) down in the noise, as we say in signal processing :)

Doug

.

[Green Dragon]

I suspect that has more to do with manufacturing variances than the actual ~0.004" spec differences between BT-60 and ST-16 :)

Now if you were putting BT-55 rings in an ST-13, you should see some slop, but with the 60/16 tubes, the differences are (should be) down in the noise, as we say in signal processing :)

Doug

.

Will have to pull them out and see... what I recall from the one sport bird I built using the clear tubes, is that a BT60 cone is loose shoulder ( few wraps of tape = ok ) , but the OD was also oversize.. not so the cone would fall into the clear tube, but enough to leave a pronounced lip past the cone, ( and therefor, less cone actually sitting on the tube, as well).

We did custom turn some basswood noseblocks for that, think I still have one or two, will have to check a piece on the vintage PNC-60 cones I have.

The other light cover I have, as noted, uses a BT60 as a perfect slip fit / coupler. but never found a great use for that other than maybe sport bird, I di dbuild one with a BT 60 epoxied into end and used the cone, but the lip it leaves is ugly.

Will head off to Lowes with cone in hand and hunt around :)

~ AL

[Chas Russell]

Hi-Jack! Just a few historical notes: The Estes Camroc Carrier came out in the 1974 catalog (been out in the hot, hot garage going through catalogs). Craig Streett of the Columbus Society for the Advancement of Rocketry (NAR Section 113) designed and flew the CC in the early '70s. As far as I know, he flew it at NARAM-13 and that is where the Estes folks saw it. He may have sent it in as a Design of the Month entry. He received no credit for the design that went into production. Last I heard, Craig was an aero engineer at the NASA John Glenn Center in the Cleveland area. I also dated his sister in the late '60s, but that's another show. Elliptical fins were a big technological fad back then.
Ever wonder where the Estes Sprint design came from? Well, I will tell you anyway. Dr. Gerald Gregork was our professor of aero engineering at THE Ohio State University. Jerry wrote the Estes Tech Report TR-11 about the aerodynamics of model rockets. With assistance from members of CSAR members, basic Estes Alphas with balsa cones and fins were built by begiining through expert modelers with the last two (of five) versions incorporating improvements over just finish. All models were tested in a wind tunnel at THE OSU aero lab. The final models had parabolic nose cones and trapizoidal fins.
Estes later ran with the design and substituted elliptical fins. It was the fad at the time. Thus the Sprint was born and kitted.
We now know that for all extents and purposes, the advantage of the elliptical fins over trapizoidal is negated by having to plot and cut the bloody things out.
The rest is hysterical.


BTW, got to see Dr. G and fellow OSU students George Pantalos and Doug Ball at the NARAM 50 Old Rocketers Reunion. The latter two went on to aero degrees and vibrant careers.

FWIW,
Chas
Former CSAR member, S&T member, OSU student, and retired Air Force Missile Technician. Never got to launch the good stuff...

Aern't you glad you didn't ask?

[Ltvscout]

Ever wonder where the Estes Sprint design came from? Well, I will tell you anyway. Dr. Gerald Gregork was our professor of aero engineering at THE Ohio State University. Jerry wrote the Estes Tech Report TR-11 about the aerodynamics of model rockets. With assistance from members of CSAR members, basic Estes Alphas with balsa cones and fins were built by begiining through expert modelers with the last two (of five) versions incorporating improvements over just finish. All models were tested in a wind tunnel at THE OSU aero lab. The final models had parabolic nose cones and trapizoidal fins.
Estes later ran with the design and substituted elliptical fins. It was the fad at the time. Thus the Sprint was born and kitted.
We now know that for all extents and purposes, the advantage of the elliptical fins over trapizoidal is negated by having to plot and cut the bloody things out.
The rest is hysterical.
I thought Mike Dorffler designed the Sprint?

[Chas Russell]

Mike may have designed the final form of the Sprint for Estes, but my point was that its basis was the design in TR-11. I should have noted that they also used the boat-tail on the Sprint that was on the final wind-tunnel test models.

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I could have been.

Chas