Saturn 1B Build Project

[Carl@Semroc]

We need 30+ Saturn 1B's built for an upcoming project to celebrate the 40th anniversary of Apollo 7 (October 11, 1968). These models will be our Saturn 1B kit with modifications and Apogee capsules, for ease of build. They will be non-flying and painted and decaled to match SA-205.

We have some master modelers lined up to build up to 10, but need 20-25 more built. Launch Magazine is behind us on this project and Mark Mayfield and I are working out details on contest prizes for the best model.

We need these completed and returned to us before October 7, 2008. We will supply the model and capsule, shipping container, and return postage. You supply the manpower, modeling skills and building supplies.

We are offering this first to the SVDT which has some of the best modelers in the world. If you know of additional modelers that can build a pristine Saturn 1B in a short period of time, please let me know on this thread. We need these to all be the "best of the best."

We will not be able to return any of the models except possibly the best one or two as judged by an independent panel of judges. Take plenty of pictures and we will as well.

Any additional details of the specific finishing aspects of SA-205 are also requested. Please keep this quiet and within this group and the other modelers that are brought onboard until we make it public.

[CPMcGraw]

We need 30+ Saturn 1B's built for an upcoming project to celebrate the 40th anniversary of Apollo 7 (October 11, 1968). These models will be our Saturn 1B kit with modifications and Apogee capsules, for ease of build. They will be non-flying and painted and decaled to match SA-205.

We have some master modelers lined up to build up to 10, but need 20-25 more built. Launch Magazine is behind us on this project and Mark Mayfield and I are working out details on contest prizes for the best model.

We need these completed and returned to us before October 7, 2008. We will supply the model and capsule, shipping container, and return postage. You supply the manpower, modeling skills and building supplies.

We are offering this first to the SVDT which has some of the best modelers in the world. If you know of additional modelers that can build a pristine Saturn 1B in a short period of time, please let me know on this thread. We need these to all be the "best of the best."

We will not be able to return any of the models except possibly the best one or two as judged by an independent panel of judges. Take plenty of pictures and we will as well.

Any additional details of the specific finishing aspects of SA-205 are also requested. Please keep this quiet and within this group and the other modelers that are brought onboard until we make it public.

Carl,

I've still got an unbuilt kit in the box that I can start on. Send me a set, and I'll start this one immediately. I can put the Apogee capsule on it when it arrives.

What about the fiddly details, like rocket engines? How much added detail are these going to require? Full "museum level"? Or some lesser level, like "visible at X-number of feet"?

Perhaps posting some of those "modifications" here in the SVDT could speed up the process as we wait for packages to arrive...

[barone]

Carl,

I'd be happy to help out. I can put all the other builds on hold. Like Craig, I've got a Semroc kit here already and can start as soon as the weekend is over (going out of town).

[chanstevens]

Count me in. That will be the fourth one I've built now, and none of them wound up in my fleet :( . At least I'll have plenty of practice for when I get around to building a keeper, and the thought of skipping the dowel/tower structure in favor of the Apogee capsule has me chompin' at the bit.

If you get any more celebrity autographs on these, though, I might have to start asking for one of 'em back!

--Chan Stevens

[chanstevens]

PS.--I've got a ton of scale data for the Saturns and will check through it for the specific round you're looking for.

[Royatl]

I can do one.

[Carl@Semroc]

Thanks Craig, Don, Chan, and Roy. The packages will go out today. The capsule will ship next Wednesday. You can start on an existing kit, but these are slightly different. An errata sheet will be ready by this weekend.

Still need 21 more!

[Chas Russell]

Carl, please send me one. I don't have the work space to do more. Why does this happen with football season starting....

Chas

[Eagle3]

Carl, I can do one.

Buzz

[Royatl]

Carl,

Ron Stancil

ronstancil@yahoo.com

is an excellent modeler, and produced the Estes/Semroc/Apogee hybrid Saturn 1B you see in the side bar on the NSL2008 website

http://www.nsl2008.org/images/nslside04.jpg

[chanstevens]

Thanks Craig, Don, Chan, and Roy. The packages will go out today. The capsule will ship next Wednesday. You can start on an existing kit, but these are slightly different. An errata sheet will be ready by this weekend.

Still need 21 more!

Heck, with the 5-minute Apogee tower, I might be able to do a pair for ya', but I'd suggest letting this thread run for a few more days and/or going public with it before any of us get a second helping.


--Chan Stevens

[Chas Russell]

Received the notice yesterday that SEMROC has sent me a package. Now I have to find this Master Modeler guy they were talking about. And move the in-work OSO, the Frick 'n'Frack, the Hustler, the Lil' Hustler...

Go Bucks!

Chas

[Doug Sams]

Received the notice yesterday that SEMROC has sent me a package. Now I have to find this Master Modeler guy they were talking about. And move the in-work OSO, the Frick 'n'Frack, the Hustler, the Lil' Hustler...Speaking of master modelers, I almost forwarded this to the DARS-General list then remembered it's an SVDT posting. But I think Richard Benevides would be a perfect candidate to build one of these. You agree?

Doug


.

[Chas Russell]

Richard would be a great addition, but I thought that he had left the hobby.
My interetest in this project is because astronaut Don Eisle was from Columbus, OH and was honored with a dinner that I and several other CSAR members attended. One of our members presented him with an Estes Saturn 1B. I have a couple of B&W photos that I will have to scan and share. I have the banquet program somewhere in the archieves.

Chas

[barone]

Received the notice yesterday that SEMROC has sent me a package. Now I have to find this Master Modeler guy they were talking about. And move the in-work OSO, the Frick 'n'Frack, the Hustler, the Lil' Hustler...

Go Bucks!

Chas
Hehehe....Yep, another thread got me interested in the Frick 'n' Frack.......guess I'll have to wait till October to order it so I can stay focused..... ;)

[Doug Sams]

Richard would be a great addition, but I thought that he had left the hobby.He came back, but I'm not sure to what extent. My biggest concern in his case is that he'd build it too nice :)

Another who comes to mind is James Gartrell - if Don Magness doesn't have him too busy on other projects :)

Doug

.

[Carl@Semroc]

DARS is building ten of them. John Dyer, Jack and Suzie Sprague, James Gartrell, and Stuart Powley are starting this weekend in a massive build session at the Sprague's.

The capsules will be here on Tuesday and we will send them out Priority on Wednesday.

[Doug Sams]

DARS is building ten of them. John Dyer, Jack and Suzie Sprague, James Gartrell, and Stuart Powley are starting this weekend in a massive build session at the Sprague's.Yer two steps ahead of me, Carl :D

Doug

.

[Mark II]

I have nowhere near the required modeling skills, but I wish you all the best on this project. Great idea, Carl, to tap the members of your highly talented "team." :)

Mark \\.

[barone]

Man....I went home for lunch and there was a box on the stoop. I'm going "No way.......I know Carl is fast but this cannot be.....". Sure enough, it was my ROTW book from NARTS :o

[Carl@Semroc]

I have nowhere near the required modeling skills, but I wish you all the best on this project. Great idea, Carl, to tap the members of your highly talented "team." :)

Mark \\.I believe you do! I have seen your work.

[Mark II]

I believe you do! I have seen your work.
[Blush :o] OK, sign me up then, and I'll give it my very best shot. :)

(Gee!!!)

Mark \\.

[chanstevens]

Man....I went home for lunch and there was a box on the stoop. I'm going "No way.......I know Carl is fast but this cannot be.....". Sure enough, it was my ROTW book from NARTS :o

Well, at least now you'll know what the thing's supposed to look like when you finish it :p .

[barone]

Well, at least now you'll know what the thing's supposed to look like when you finish it :p .
LOL....No, I already checked....no details for the SA-205 ;)

[chanstevens]

Carl:

I found a bunch of decent scale data for this specific mission. Way too much to post here as attachment. I'll try emailing it you to at Semroc, but we might want to see if someone here would be willing to temporarily host it (note--some of these are commercial grade photos and should probably not be freely distributed across the net). Example--I've got the John Pursley photos.

[chanstevens]

We need 30+ Saturn 1B's built for an upcoming project to celebrate the 40th anniversary of Apollo 7 (October 11, 1968). These models will be our Saturn 1B kit with modifications and Apogee capsules, for ease of build. They will be non-flying and painted and decaled to match SA-205.

We have some master modelers lined up to build up to 10, but need 20-25 more built. Launch Magazine is behind us on this project and Mark Mayfield and I are working out details on contest prizes for the best model.

We need these completed and returned to us before October 7, 2008. We will supply the model and capsule, shipping container, and return postage. You supply the manpower, modeling skills and building supplies.

We are offering this first to the SVDT which has some of the best modelers in the world. If you know of additional modelers that can build a pristine Saturn 1B in a short period of time, please let me know on this thread. We need these to all be the "best of the best."

We will not be able to return any of the models except possibly the best one or two as judged by an independent panel of judges. Take plenty of pictures and we will as well.

Any additional details of the specific finishing aspects of SA-205 are also requested. Please keep this quiet and within this group and the other modelers that are brought onboard until we make it public.

A bunch of photos are viewable/downloadable at http://www.apolloarchive.com/apollo_gallery.html (look for the Apollo 7 link in top left of the frame).

[chanstevens]

I wonder if anyone could try to reshoot this photo (http://picasaweb.google.com/chanstevens/Rocketry/photo#5240264078249985154) 40 years later...

[Royatl]

I wonder if anyone could try to reshoot this photo (http://picasaweb.google.com/chanstevens/Rocketry/photo#5240264078249985154) 40 years later...

Well, then we'd need one of Sheri's Saturn 1B's!

Darn, we could easily have set it up a month ago!

[chanstevens]

Thanks Craig, Don, Chan, and Roy. The packages will go out today. The capsule will ship next Wednesday. You can start on an existing kit, but these are slightly different. An errata sheet will be ready by this weekend.

Still need 21 more!

Hopefully you can just post or email the modifications you want. I got my big honkin' box today and am ready to start on it. I'll stick to tube spiral treatments and such, surely not affected by your mods.

Also, you probably don't need to go Priority on the capsule kits--it's not like any of us will be stopped and needing these early next week. Cheapest/easiest would be the way to go.

--Chan Stevens

[Royatl]

Hopefully you can just post or email the modifications you want. I got my big honkin' box today and am ready to start on it. I'll stick to tube spiral treatments and such, surely not affected by your mods.

Also, you probably don't need to go Priority on the capsule kits--it's not like any of us will be stopped and needing these early next week. Cheapest/easiest would be the way to go.

--Chan Stevens

Dang it, I was planning on starting the project during the three day weekend, but our USPS seems to have gotten crappy on Atlanta the past couple of months. My sky-of-gold certificates got here today properly mangled one or two days after everybody else seemed to get them (actually, they aren't in that bad a shape, though my mail carrier did nearly put a crease in one of them).

[foose4string]

Dang it, I was planning on starting the project during the three day weekend, but our USPS seems to have gotten crappy on Atlanta the past couple of months. My sky-of-gold certificates got here today properly mangled one or two days after everybody else seemed to get them (actually, they aren't in that bad a shape, though my mail carrier did nearly put a crease in one of them).

My mail carrier did a nice job of folding mine too. Could be worse....like wet, mangled, or lost. ;)

[barone]

Carl:

I found a bunch of decent scale data for this specific mission. Way too much to post here as attachment. I'll try emailing it you to at Semroc, but we might want to see if someone here would be willing to temporarily host it (note--some of these are commercial grade photos and should probably not be freely distributed across the net). Example--I've got the John Pursley photos.
Chan,

You got my e-mail address....

[chanstevens]

Chan,

You got my e-mail address....

The zip file is about 50 meg, and that's going to suck up a whole lotta bandwidth if I wind up emailing it around to everyone. Anybody want to pony up some online storage briefly?

I'd be willing to put it out on bit torrent, but I doubt most of the old farts around hear are familiar with that file sharing technique :p .

[Royatl]

The zip file is about 50 meg, and that's going to suck up a whole lotta bandwidth if I wind up emailing it around to everyone. Anybody want to pony up some online storage briefly?

I'd be willing to put it out on bit torrent, but I doubt most of the old farts around hear are familiar with that file sharing technique :p .


Sure, I can put it up, but it'll have to wait till tomorrow as I'm about to go out the door. I'll email you the particulars (ftp server and account) later tonight.

[chanstevens]

What type of finish are we looking for here? Scale-like flat or show-off glossy?

I'm priming the tubes now, might be finish coating them in a couple days.

[Carl@Semroc]

I think the gloss is more durable.

[Chas Russell]

I did not receive the kit Saturday, so opened kit #21 and will start to fill spirals on the main tubes. Glossy finish, check.

Chas

[Eagle3]

I got mine Saturday and got the tube spirals filled yesterday. Has any one built this one similar to the 1/70 Estes Sat 1b and painted it in sub-assemblies? I'm just worried about seams or an ill fit with the scallop shroud.

[dwmzmm]

Carl, I know I'm very late getting here, but my internet service (DSL) had been out for the past 2 1/2 weeks and I just got it back on line this afternoon. If you have one more build of
the Saturn 1-B, I can do one. I still have my original Estes 1/70 kit ("in-the-box") I haven't
started on (yet). I do, however, have my original Centuri 1/100 Saturn 1-B (which is the
Apollo - 7 round) in my collection, so I can use it as a reference point .

Also, speaking of Richard Benevides, I've e-mailed him some time ago asking if he was going
to compete in a Regional meet at JSC (as he did back in the Fall 2005). From his response, I
gather that he was no longer interested in building & flying model rockets. I do, however,
see that he posts in the Space - Modelers Yahoo Group (mostly pertaining to plastic/static
models) often.

[Carl@Semroc]

Dave,


It will go out tomorrow. Thanks!

I did not realize the Centuri 1B was Apollo 7. Does anyone have the service model silver wrap?

[dwmzmm]

Dave,


It will go out tomorrow. Thanks!

I did not realize the Centuri 1B was Apollo 7. Does anyone have the service model silver wrap?

Thanks, Carl. You might want to get with Leroy Piester about the Centuri Saturn 1-B's
development; he could give some insight on the model's silver wrap. My model (even though it's about 37 years old) still has the wrap on. I'm planning on using the silver/
chrome monokote adhesive from BMS to help in the detailing of the SM finish. Shouldn't
be all that hard to do. I used the monokote to enhance the detailing of the SM to the
Estes K-36 Saturn - V I built recently.

[Doug Sams]

I did not realize the Centuri 1B was Apollo 7. Does anyone have the service model silver wrap?Carl,

My 1B is the Centuri 1/100 sold as EST #2048. I opened the box and took everything out, but it appears the silver for the SM is simply paint in this kit. The instuctions don't show a wrap for that. And I didn't see one anywhere in the parts.

Doug

.

[dwmzmm]

Carl,

My 1B is the Centuri 1/100 sold as EST #2048. I opened the box and took everything out, but it appears the silver for the SM is simply paint in this kit. The instuctions don't show a wrap for that. And I didn't see one anywhere in the parts.

Doug

.

The Estes version of the Centuri Saturn 1-B was simply painted silver (see the pic below of
the Estes model taken at the Makers Faire last October). When I get the chance over the
next couple of days, I may be able to make a rough trace of the silver wrap on my Centuri
model (in 1/100 scale, of course). I also have the Centuri Saturn - V, and I think I still have
what's left of the peel off piece from which the silver wrap came from (but it's different than
the 1-B's pattern).

[Eagle3]

Sure, I can put it up, but it'll have to wait till tomorrow as I'm about to go out the door. I'll email you the particulars (ftp server and account) later tonight.

Roy, have you had a chance to upload the data yet?

[Royatl]

Roy, have you had a chance to upload the data yet?

had some trouble with configuring the FTP server, but Chan now has the correct information and when he gets a chance to upload it, it will be available at http://www.soarrocketry.org/saturn/<filename>

[barone]

I got mine Saturday and got the tube spirals filled yesterday. Has any one built this one similar to the 1/70 Estes Sat 1b and painted it in sub-assemblies? I'm just worried about seams or an ill fit with the scallop shroud.
That's what I planned on doing as well but it looks like you have to be careful with the orientation that way. I had the 1/100 1B and I think the decals for the black tanks already had the white background because I just don't remember masking it off. Oh well. :o

Since these aren't flying I'm taking the easy way and installing the single motor mount. Everyone doing the built up fins? I don't want to be different. :D

[Eagle3]

That's my plan. Going to start working on them tonight. I don't think I got the cluster option parts unless they're still in the popcorn packing.

[kurtschachner]

Here is the wrap for the Centuri Saturn V. I have a scan if anyone wants it but it's too big to post to this board.

I also have a scan of the 1b here somewhere, just if I could find it. I was once told (by someone who should know) that the 1b wrap "wasn't very accurate" so I never drew it up. I don't know if that is true or not.

The Estes version of the Centuri Saturn 1-B was simply painted silver (see the pic below of
the Estes model taken at the Makers Faire last October). When I get the chance over the
next couple of days, I may be able to make a rough trace of the silver wrap on my Centuri
model (in 1/100 scale, of course). I also have the Centuri Saturn - V, and I think I still have
what's left of the peel off piece from which the silver wrap came from (but it's different than
the 1-B's pattern).

[kurtschachner]

You are correct, the Estes kit did not have a white rectangle behind the letters. That was just making it needlessly difficult IMHO.

That's what I planned on doing as well but it looks like you have to be careful with the orientation that way. I had the 1/100 1B and I think the decals for the black tanks already had the white background because I just don't remember masking it off. Oh well. :o

Since these aren't flying I'm taking the easy way and installing the single motor mount. Everyone doing the built up fins? I don't want to be different. :D

[kurtschachner]

OK, I don't have the Saturn 1b wrap. I remember now, the guy who had one said he'd send it to me, but that was about 10 years ago and it never happened. He kept telling me to use the pattern in ROTW as it was much more accurate. That however, would be hard to translate into a wrap due to the thin horizontal sections.

BUT, now that Rustee found one in a hobby shop it shouldn't be a problem. I asked him to scan all the stuff. I hope he does.

[Carl@Semroc]

That's my plan. Going to start working on them tonight. I don't think I got the cluster option parts unless they're still in the popcorn packing.I only included parts for the 24mm mount for ease of display later. I have been working on an errata sheet, but EVERYTHING else keeps getting in the way!

The capsules went out today to everyone building a Saturn 1B. They are very fragile. Let us know if they get broken. We have a few spares.

We still need more builders! I will be going out to the "general population" soon. Additional suggestions for master builders is appreciated.

[Eagle3]

OK, I don't have the Saturn 1b wrap. I remember now, the guy who had one said he'd send it to me, but that was about 10 years ago and it never happened. He kept telling me to use the pattern in ROTW as it was much more accurate. That however, would be hard to translate into a wrap due to the thin horizontal sections.


Last night I watched my "Mighty Saturns" dvd on Apollo 7 (until I fell asleep) and I saw what you are talking about. It would almost be easier to use thin white pin striping over chrome monokote.

[Mark II]

No sign of mine yet.

Mark \\.

[chanstevens]

I only included parts for the 24mm mount for ease of display later. I have been working on an errata sheet, but EVERYTHING else keeps getting in the way!

The capsules went out today to everyone building a Saturn 1B. They are very fragile. Let us know if they get broken. We have a few spares.

We still need more builders! I will be going out to the "general population" soon. Additional suggestions for master builders is appreciated.

I've sent a note to Bob Cox (email bitemebob at hotmail dot com) who is a terrific builder, though I think he trolls TRF and not YORF. Hopefully he'll email your sales at semroc account. Note that Bob Cox is just an alias, and if he provides shipping info to you it is likely to be a different name.

I'm not sure if he's built any Saturns previously, but his work on sport models is fantastic. He did the big Q-Modeling Andromeda at NARCON--exceptional.

--Chan Stevens

[Royatl]

Anybody want to pony up some online storage briefly?

.

I sent you login information yesterday. Let me know if you didn't get it.

[chanstevens]

I sent you login information yesterday. Let me know if you didn't get it.

I did not get it that I know of. PM or email to chanstevens at gmail dot com. Might have wound up in a spam filter, though hat's doubtful...

My big stash of files is at home, so will have to wait 'till tonight to upload.

[ghrocketman]

Carl,
I would have volunteered if the completion date was about 1 month later, but unfortunately due to my schedule there is no way I could get a build with finish of this quality/caliber completed by early October.

[Royatl]

The files Chan provided are online for a month at:

http://www.soarrocketry.org/saturn/

Enjoy.

[CPMcGraw]

Thanks, Chan and Roy, for those files!

Chan (or anyone who has the answer :) ), is the blue coloring on the CM a wrap of some sort protecting the surface? Or was the CM actually blue-anodized (or just blue-tinted)?

[chanstevens]

Well, I was only 3 years old at the time, so not paying that much attention to it, but if you're referring to the first photo in the Apollo 7 SA-205 zip folder, then that's one I've always thought was just some sort of metal coating like a dye. I doubt it would be annodized, as that would not add much benefit prior to the tiles going on.

[Eagle3]

The files Chan provided are online for a month at:

http://www.soarrocketry.org/saturn/

Enjoy.

Thanks guys!

[CPMcGraw]

I got a note in my mailbox this morning saying I had a package for pick-up. When I went to claim it, the lady picked it up and said "It weighs nuthin'! Light as a feather".

Now I can build both S1Bs together. Thanks, Carl!

Photos of the build as they become available... :D

[barone]

Got the Apogee capsule today. That is sweet! Thanks Carl for not putting us through the capsule build. :)

[chanstevens]

Construction's just about done, even the newly arrived capsule (love them Apogees). I'm going modular for relative ease in paint/masking, so still plenty of work left, and with the humidity in Ohio it might be weeks before I can paint...

1) I know these aren't supposed to be flight-worthy to save time, but would you have any heartburn if I at least included Kevlar for a recovery system? Just in case someone wants to eventually fly it?

2) You mentioned only the top 1-2 might be returned.What in the world will happen to the rest? If we offer to pony up the shipping costs, would you be willing to ship any of them back to us? I don't mind at all if some lucky recipient winds up with mine, but I'd hate for it to wind up gathering dust in some storage closet somewhere. Heck, I'd even wind up flying mine. Better yet, I'll trade ya this one for the older worn-out display model I built for you a few years ago. I heard someone even messed up the finish on that with a Sharpie at NARAM :rolleyes: .

--Chan Stevens

[Royatl]

Got the Apogee capsule today. That is sweet! Thanks Carl for not putting us through the capsule build. :)


Not only that, but we won't have to do the Service Module's RCS housings either.

[Eagle3]

Got my capsule today too. Man, that's going to make it a lot easier. I got all the paper and wood cut out and will start putting the fins together tomorrow.

[CPMcGraw]

Here's another Saturn 1B photo website that has some good detail shots:


http://www.apollosaturn.com/frame-s1b.htm

[CPMcGraw]

I said I'd post pictures when available...

Here's the first shot, with enough parts for two models. It's a rare image, showing a workbench with just the project materials on it. Around here, a clean workbench just doesn't happen that often...:o

[barone]

I said I'd post pictures when available...

Here's the first shot, with enough parts for two models. It's a rare image, showing a workbench with just the project materials on it. Around here, a clean workbench just doesn't happen that often...:o
Man, do I feel behind. I just got the tubes primered yesterday, will sand today (actually, I'm using steel wool). Had to dig back into the shipping box to find the wraps. I think once my grandaughter leaves, I'll dump the box on the floor to make sure I don't forget anything. When the box arrived, I brought it into the living room and then went to the bedroom for something. When I came back, my grandaughter was standing on the box (nice strong box Carl ;) ). And when I opened it, she was saying "dump it out, dump it out!" She loves to play with those styrofoam peanuts. Any way, just a long explanation on why I'm waiting for her to leave before dumping the box out onto the floor. :rolleyes:

[chanstevens]

I only included parts for the 24mm mount for ease of display later. I have been working on an errata sheet, but EVERYTHING else keeps getting in the way!

The capsules went out today to everyone building a Saturn 1B. They are very fragile. Let us know if they get broken. We have a few spares.

We still need more builders! I will be going out to the "general population" soon. Additional suggestions for master builders is appreciated.

I'd be willing to build a second one if you don't get enough other builders. Honestly, replacing the tower and RCS details with the Apogee kit shaves at least 3-4 evenings' of scope out of it for me, so I find myself able to knock these guys out in about 15-20 hours apiece plus painting/masking time. It's really amazing how much faster these get after you've built a bunch of them first (this is probably 1b #12-15 or so, and Saturn/overall #25).

--Chan Stevens

[CPMcGraw]

Man, do I feel behind. I just got the tubes primered yesterday, will sand today (actually, I'm using steel wool). Had to dig back into the shipping box to find the wraps...

It's been a little wet around here last few days, so the humidity is thick enough to cut with an X-Acto. Imagine trying to breathe with asthma... :(

I'm going to start with the small details first, and set them aside for final assembly. Tubes will probably get first-prime this weekend, sanded Monday or Tuesday.

Also trying to figure out how to do that hardpoint on the bottom of the fins...

[Mark II]

Got the capsule kit today. Still waiting for the rest.

Mark \\.

[dwmzmm]

No sign of the package here in Katy yet :( ......

[dwmzmm]

You are correct, the Estes kit did not have a white rectangle behind the letters. That was just making it needlessly difficult IMHO.

Probably another reason why the Estes 1/70 Saturn 1-B was a Skill Level - 5 build..... :D

[CPMcGraw]

The capsule arrived in Mobile today. Man, is this thing fragile-looking!

Addendum: OTOH, all of those nasty, unspeakable thoughts I have about plastic components on model rockets...don't apply with this kit. This is a beautiful piece of engineering. I just put the capsule on top of my still-unfinished LJ-II, and it immediately changed the appearance. Even without the LES on top, it made a huge difference.

[dwmzmm]

No sign of the package here in Katy yet :( ......

Ditto for today...... :confused:

[dwmzmm]

Took some pics of the Centuri Saturn 1-B's Service Module silver wrap. Bear in mind this
model is approximately 37 years old, so most of the RCS nozzles on the SM have broken off
over the years (either from storage and/or in the many flights taken).

The first pic is between Pos. I & II

The second pic is between Pos. II & III

The third pic is between Pos. III & IV

and

The last pic is between Pos. IV & I

Hope this helps.

[barone]

Hey guys....if you're following the instructions, don't do step 19 and 20 till after step 27. The fuel tank shroud won't fit over the top tank cover. :(

[chanstevens]

Good catch. Of course, I build these modular and paint before assembly, so I don't mount the tubes or centering ring till the end anyway, and then I slide the painted shroud assembly on over the finished tubes before topping off with the centering ring. It's a little tricky, but a lot easier than all that masking of tubes and the fluted shroud.

[Eagle3]

I'm building mine modular as well. I like to cut down as much masking as possible. Fewer opportunities to mess up. BTW - instead of masking the black tank tubes for the white stripes has anyone used white trim monokote for the stripe?

[Mark II]

I'm building mine modular as well. I like to cut down as much masking as possible. Fewer opportunities to mess up. BTW - instead of masking the black tank tubes for the white stripes has anyone used white trim monokote for the stripe?
Would it be opaque enough?

Mark \\.

[chanstevens]

I'm building mine modular as well. I like to cut down as much masking as possible. Fewer opportunities to mess up. BTW - instead of masking the black tank tubes for the white stripes has anyone used white trim monokote for the stripe?

I'm probably MUCH too picky about it, but I'd have heartburn with that for two reasons:

1--There would be a noticeable seam/ridge, more so than if you'd just painted and then sanded down a bit with 900 grit.

b--You'd never match whatever white paint is used elsewhere, leaving two different whites on the model. Difference in gloss can be negated through a clearcoat, but that won't help resolve a tint problem.

--Chan Stevens

[barone]

I was thinking about doing the modular route but then I started thinking about filling gaps in parts and trying to make that look good after the parts were already painted and decided "Oh well, guess I'll do a lot of masking". By the way....I've got this CM wrap that might help detailing the CM section. Just use it along with the pictures of the CM that Chan provided and you'll be able to see where the silver goes. I've provided a rule so you can get the scale right.

[Royatl]

I was thinking about doing the modular route but then I started thinking about filling gaps in parts and trying to make that look good after the parts were already painted and decided "Oh well, guess I'll do a lot of masking". By the way....I've got this CM wrap that might help detailing the CM section. Just use it along with the pictures of the CM that Chan provided and you'll be able to see where the silver goes. I've provided a rule so you can get the scale right.


note that the rule is scrunched a bit just after 5.5 inches. Don't know if that was in the original or if it also affected the wrap itself. I guess the easy way to check is to make sure the wrap is exactly 7.0".

[barone]

note that the rule is scrunched a bit just after 5.5 inches. Don't know if that was in the original or if it also affected the wrap itself. I guess the easy way to check is to make sure the wrap is exactly 7.0".
Well, if you print it out and the printed distance between the inch marks isn't an inch, it's not printed to scale........ :D

[dwmzmm]

Carl, is there a way you can check the shipping status of the Saturn 1-B you sent me? As of
today (Monday, September 8, 2008) I still haven't received mine. When I try to check the
status myself, all I get is the electronic notification that the package was shipped on September 2, 2008. With the early October deadline approaching, I'm going to be hard
pressed to do a quality job on short notice. I can "cut" some of the finishing work by using
some monokote I have.

If there's anything you can find out, I'd appreciate it.

[dwmzmm]

Carl, is there a way you can check the shipping status of the Saturn 1-B you sent me? As of
today (Monday, September 8, 2008) I still haven't received mine. When I try to check the
status myself, all I get is the electronic notification that the package was shipped on September 2, 2008. With the early October deadline approaching, I'm going to be hard
pressed to do a quality job on short notice. I can "cut" some of the finishing work by using
some monokote I have.

If there's anything you can find out, I'd appreciate it.


Nevermind, Carl. It came in today! Maybe if Hurricane Ike heads this way, it might give
me some extra time to work on the build. Thanks!

[chanstevens]

For anyone who has as much fun as I do trying to place (4) different latch pads on the transition exactly 1.2" forward of the edge, and spaced exactly 1/4th of the way around/lined up with the POS lines, I've come up with a wrap-around shroud pattern that can be used to mark the base points. Note that the bottom is probably a tiny bit undersized--on mine it was maybe 1/16" short and so for the "X" that's formed at the joint, I sort of had to split the distance. For the other 3 points, just poke a hole in this wrap, and use a pencil or sharpie to mark that point on the shroud. Works best if you get this BEFORE forming the shroud, but I have to admit I've never managed to work that efficiently or that far ahead. I typically just mark my already formed and painted transition and tack on the pads late in the game.

--Chan Stevens

[barone]

Thanks Chan. I was planning on marking before I cut out but hadn't got that far yet. Just now putting the fins together and filling gaps between the fuel tanks and the tank shroud.

[Mark II]

Got the kit today, so now I can finally get started. Man, that's a big box! :eek: :D

Mark \\.

[dwmzmm]

Got the kit today, so now I can finally get started. Man, that's a big box! :eek: :D

Mark \\.

That's what I thought, too, when I saw the box yesterday. I assume we're suppose to use
it to send the completed model?!

[chanstevens]

Thanks Chan. I was planning on marking before I cut out but hadn't got that far yet. Just now putting the fins together and filling gaps between the fuel tanks and the tank shroud.

I tried that once on the second one I'd built, but still had issues with spacing them 1/4 of the way around. I found the best method was simply to photocopy the shroud, cut it out, fold it into fourths, then pencil in the crease lines from the folds. Mark each line 1.2" up from the aft end, and you're good to go. Just make sure you do that on a copy, not on the original, as those crease lines on the actual shroud could be a little unsightly ;) .

[dwmzmm]

I'm building mine modular as well. I like to cut down as much masking as possible. Fewer opportunities to mess up. BTW - instead of masking the black tank tubes for the white stripes has anyone used white trim monokote for the stripe?

Is white trim monokote available somewhere? I was hoping BMS would have some, but
they don't.

[chanstevens]

Is white trim monokote available somewhere? I was hoping BMS would have some, but
they don't.

sigmfg.com. Look under building supplies, coverings.

[dwmzmm]

sigmfg.com. Look under building supplies, coverings.

Wow, thanks! I see a lot of stuff I can use on their website. For model rockets, of course.

[Royatl]

Wow, thanks! I see a lot of stuff I can use on their website. For model rockets, of course.

The OTHER thing I remember most about the old days, besides getting catalogs from Estes and Centuri, was getting the BIG Sig Catalog, with Hazel Sigafoose on the cover with her aerobatic bipe, similar to the one that killed her husband a few years later (she's still going strong at 86, racing Corvettes!).

Anyway, that catalog had all sorts of things that I'd never heard of. Stuff that our hobby section of the five and dime, or the back of the tobacco shop hobby section would never dream of carrying.

[CPMcGraw]

Build update...

Finally got all of the tubes first-primed and first-sanded today. Spirals look nearly filled, so a second prime and sand session should be all that it needs. Hopefully, all of the wraps should be applied by Wednesday.

The fins are proving to be a real bear... :(

[CPMcGraw]

The OTHER thing I remember most about the old days, besides getting catalogs from Estes and Centuri, was getting the BIG Sig Catalog, with Hazel Sigafoose on the cover with her aerobatic bipe, similar to the one that killed her husband a few years later (she's still going strong at 86, racing Corvettes!)...

Check this out:

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104428

[chanstevens]

Well, I was making great progress until we got hit with the "dry hurricane" remnants of Ike. Nothing like what Galveston and Houston got, but over 90% of us in CIncinnati area lost power Sunday, and as of noon Wednesday, over half are still waiting for it to be restored. I used to be a Home Depot supplier, and we had to do annual "hurricane drills" proving we could get vital supplies to any huricane hit city in under 24 hours. Naturally, they were the first store I went to for stuff, and they were shut down for lack of power.

Masking by candlelight absolutely [inhales deeply]. I pulled off the tape yesterday morning to discover that I painted the 0.675" black band above the wrap (onto the plain white tube) instead of from the top of the wrap down/aft. D'oh!

Hopefully they'll have us back up within te next day or so, though they still claim many will be into the weekend, if then, before getting power back.

[barone]

Well, you're further along than I am and I don't have a hurricane to contend with.

Finished building the fins and stacking out. Still filling gaps on the tube shroud....fill, sand, fill. LEM shroud goes on tonight. I think I'm going to prime and sand the stack once more before applying the wraps to make sure I've got all the gaps filled. Don't want to add primer after I get the wraps on and destroy the detail.

Anyone put the capsule together yet?

[dwmzmm]

Well, you're further along than I am and I don't have a hurricane to contend with.

Finished building the fins and stacking out. Still filling gaps on the tube shroud....fill, sand, fill. LEM shroud goes on tonight. I think I'm going to prime and sand the stack once more before applying the wraps to make sure I've got all the gaps filled. Don't want to add primer after I get the wraps on and destroy the detail.

Anyone put the capsule together yet?

I've only viewed the DVD of the capsule and studied the instructions today; in a few minutes
I'm going to get started on the build. Wanted to see how I can construct the model in modules (and prepaint certain portions before final assembly, like the Centuri Saturn 1-B,
which made the finished product a lot easier and better). Looks like it'll be a challenge, but
I'm going to do what I can. The arrival/passing of Ike over the weekend really set me back
big time, so I'm pretty much behind anyhow you look at it.

I can feel for chanstevens, as many of the electrical repair crew from Ohio headed down to
southeast Texas after Ike did its damage to assist CenterPoint Energy in the recovery
efforts. This had already been contracted long before Ike hit, as we're getting help (so they
say) from all over to help speed things up. They've said that the Houston metro area has
the largest electrical grid in the US. We got our power back several days ago (after being out for nearly three days); but over 60% of Houston still doesn't have power as of now. Many may not be back on line until next week.

[barone]

My sister called today. She just got her power back and my mother and brother haven't had power since Sunday. They live between Dayton and Columbus Ohio.... :(

[barone]

There's a gap between the fuel tank body tubes. Put two pieces of sandpaper together so the sand is facing eachother and then slide them between the tank tubes. Fold the pieces back across the top of the two tanks, exposing the sand. Slide the fairing support between the two pieces of sandpaper. The resulting bevel should closely match the gap between the tank tubes. Test fit often to ensure you don't remove too much balsa.

[dwmzmm]

Finally got started on the build of mine (well, the one I received :( ) and having some real
fun! Get's my mind off of the disasterous events we had in our area over the past week. Since our school doesn't start until Tuesday, I'll have some time to really get to work and
make progress. Will be working on the eight fuel tanks today and the fin construction so I
can get that out of the way. Will be using my vintage Centuri Saturn 1-B as a reference point
while working on this 1/70 scale model.

[barone]

Got your email.....just keep the mystery going don't you???? ;)

[dwmzmm]

Hey all, this evening (Friday, September 19th) while working on the Saturn 1-B, I was studying my old Centuri model and noticed that the SEMROC decal sheet is missing the
vertical motion markings that's located on the interstage adapter next to the black roll
pattern. I've included a photo I took of the Centuri model with the marking in question
circled so you guys can keep it in mind when you finish yours. I plan to use the black
monokote adhesive to do the job.

And, sorry for the cluttered look in the background of my work table. Things have been
really hectic here lately, so I'm sure you all can understand (will in no way diminish the
quality of my build). If you can look a little behind the Centuri model, on the table, you
can see four of the eight fuel tanks have been attached to the assembly. I used black
monokote for those tanks. Came out looking really good.

More later.

[Pyro Pro]

The files Chan provided are online for a month at:

http://www.soarrocketry.org/saturn/

Enjoy.

Just wondering, is this link working for anyone else? I keep getting a "Server Error in '/' Application" message.

[Royatl]

Just wondering, is this link working for anyone else? I keep getting a "Server Error in '/' Application" message.


I just used it. But that's not to say that occasionally it might be down briefly as I do some experimentation with it.

right now on internet explorer it will give a couple of javascript errors ("'Sys' is undefined"). Just click "no".

[Royatl]

Ah, I see. It is blowing up under Firefox. I think I know what that's about.

yep. put in some browser caps code to deal with an issue with the google maps API.

It apparently barfed.

Should be good to go now.

[Pyro Pro]

Aha! That was it. Thanks.

Looks like it works with Google Chrome as well.

[Royatl]

yea, that's what I've been using, and is why I missed the javascript error for awhile too. Chrome either doesn't care, or they just haven't put the reporting code in yet.

[dwmzmm]

Worked great for me; I've already have it saved to my hard drive and available on my
desktop.

BTW, does anyone know for certain if the Service Module of the Apollo - 7 actually had an
EVA light? The drawings in those links shows an EVA light but that puzzles me, as there was
no EVA planned (nor no LM) that would require an EVA light. I will need to know an definitive
answer in about a week before I start working on the SM detailing.

[chanstevens]

Worked great for me; I've already have it saved to my hard drive and available on my
desktop.

BTW, does anyone know for certain if the Service Module of the Apollo - 7 actually had an
EVA light? The drawings in those links shows an EVA light but that puzzles me, as there was
no EVA planned (nor no LM) that would require an EVA light. I will need to know an definitive
answer in about a week before I start working on the SM detailing.

Are you referring to the Mark Piatowski "drawings"? If so, they are NOT specific to that mission, but are more of a generic series of wonderful renderings showing some of the colors and details of the 1b. They are included in the Apogee kit documentation as finishing guidelines, and that kit supports a number of different mission configurations.

The main reason I included them is because, with no offense to the outstanding Semroc instructions, the finishing specs and illustrations are a bit thin and maybe even a bit inaccurate depending on mission choice. The antenna panels, for example, should be yellow, not silver. The service module has a LOT of silver, not solid white. These drawings, which are more like artists renderings, do a pretty good job of showing how to try to finish a typical Saturn, not necessarily Apollo-7.

As I looked over them today, I did notice one major thing missing which I'll try to correct--in the Apogee instructions, each of them show up with a label indicating the position number/view angle. The online folder does not indicate this. I think it would be pretty important to know which side of the rocket you're looking at...

--Chan Stevens

[chanstevens]

OK, I don't have the Saturn 1b wrap. I remember now, the guy who had one said he'd send it to me, but that was about 10 years ago and it never happened. He kept telling me to use the pattern in ROTW as it was much more accurate. That however, would be hard to translate into a wrap due to the thin horizontal sections.

BUT, now that Rustee found one in a hobby shop it shouldn't be a problem. I asked him to scan all the stuff. I hope he does.

Lacking a wrap scan for any/all of us, does anyone have an unbuilt Apogee 1b kit? There's a raised ink/embossed wrap in there for the service module that would at least be a very good masking guide if scanned. I inquired today about buying a few as replacement parts, and Tim turned me down. Turns out he spent a fortune to tool that, and needs to sell kits to recoup the cost. If he sold 'em off as spare parts to folks who go ahead and build someone else's kit (Estes, Semroc, etc.) he'd never make enough margin to cover the wrap tooling cost. Makes sense to me, but I would have hoped for this project he'd bend on that policy :( .

[Royatl]

Lacking a wrap scan for any/all of us, does anyone have an unbuilt Apogee 1b kit? There's a raised ink/embossed wrap in there for the service module that would at least be a very good masking guide if scanned.



I'll get mine out tonight. I know I've opened the Saturn V kit, but not sure if I've ever opened the 1B!

[barone]

Lacking a wrap scan for any/all of us, does anyone have an unbuilt Apogee 1b kit? There's a raised ink/embossed wrap in there for the service module that would at least be a very good masking guide if scanned. I inquired today about buying a few as replacement parts, and Tim turned me down. Turns out he spent a fortune to tool that, and needs to sell kits to recoup the cost. If he sold 'em off as spare parts to folks who go ahead and build someone else's kit (Estes, Semroc, etc.) he'd never make enough margin to cover the wrap tooling cost. Makes sense to me, but I would have hoped for this project he'd bend on that policy :( .
Chan,

Go back earlier in this thread. I posted a .tif of it.....Post #83 (I guess I'm just posting to myself :( )

[CPMcGraw]

As I started test-fitting the wraps around the SIV-B tube on both my project kit and on the one I bought about a year ago, I found one of my #4 wraps was incorrectly sized. It's slightly long, and the corrugations progressively get out of alignment. The #3 wraps and the remaining #4 wrap seem to be fine, that is to say, their corrugations line up. I suspect the wrap that is long is from my older kit, as I have not heard anyone on this thread mentioning this problem. Both of my #5 wraps line up with the #3 wraps, so it's just the one #4 that's at issue.

Got the wraps on the lower S-1B skirts, and the spacer strips on all 16 of the tanks. Final white coats on these tomorrow. Masking and black paint to come on Thursday.

Don't know which is more difficult - building the fins, or applying the wraps...

[dwmzmm]

As I started test-fitting the wraps around the SIV-B tube on both my project kit and on the one I bought about a year ago, I found one of my #4 wraps was incorrectly sized. It's slightly long, and the corrugations progressively get out of alignment. The #3 wraps and the remaining #4 wrap seem to be fine, that is to say, their corrugations line up. I suspect the wrap that is long is from my older kit, as I have not heard anyone on this thread mentioning this problem. Both of my #5 wraps line up with the #3 wraps, so it's just the one #4 that's at issue.

Got the wraps on the lower S-1B skirts, and the spacer strips on all 16 of the tanks. Final white coats on these tomorrow. Masking and black paint to come on Thursday.

Don't know which is more difficult - building the fins, or applying the wraps...

Just finished putting on the wraps a few minutes ago; all of them fit ok, although I had to make some small trims to the two lowest wraps for the fin can (were a bit too big). The
wraps to the main body section went on pretty good, and the corrugations seem to line
up ok. I really wanted to try using contact cement to apply the wraps (much like the Centuri kit), but "chickened" out as it allows no room for errors. Using white glue makes
the surface a bit uneven, but I suspect that will be taken care of when the base coat of
white paint goes on.

Tomorrow I'll get started on the fin construction; should be interesting and fun!!

[chanstevens]

Chan,

Go back earlier in this thread. I posted a .tif of it.....Post #83 (I guess I'm just posting to myself :( )

Was that from an Apogee kit or one of the early Estes/Centuri's?

[barone]

Was that from an Apogee kit or one of the early Estes/Centuri's?
That's from the Apogee kit (I haven't started building it yet). The file name is how I have it saved on my computer. Sorry for the confusion.

[chanstevens]

Are you referring to the Mark Piatowski "drawings"? If so, they are NOT specific to that mission, but are more of a generic series of wonderful renderings showing some of the colors and details of the 1b. They are included in the Apogee kit documentation as finishing guidelines, and that kit supports a number of different mission configurations.

The main reason I included them is because, with no offense to the outstanding Semroc instructions, the finishing specs and illustrations are a bit thin and maybe even a bit inaccurate depending on mission choice. The antenna panels, for example, should be yellow, not silver. The service module has a LOT of silver, not solid white. These drawings, which are more like artists renderings, do a pretty good job of showing how to try to finish a typical Saturn, not necessarily Apollo-7.

As I looked over them today, I did notice one major thing missing which I'll try to correct--in the Apogee instructions, each of them show up with a label indicating the position number/view angle. The online folder does not indicate this. I think it would be pretty important to know which side of the rocket you're looking at...

--Chan Stevens

I just compared the "written" (on CD/video) directions to the Piatowski drawings, and thought the Piatowski were what were in the instructions to build from. Turns out they are not, and there are a set of MUCH BETTER photo-like drawings of each of the main modules shown from position I through IIII for painting, detailing, etc. I have zipped up those and sent them to Roy (can't do the FTP thing from work, still have power/cable issues at home). If anyone wants these sooner, email me at chanstevens at gmail dot com and I'll shoot a copy directly (about 750k). These are excellent renderings, and while they don't do the hard work of masking and painting for you, they at least make figuring out what/where to mask go much more smoothly.

--Chan Stevens

[Royatl]

I just compared the "written" (on CD/video) directions to the Piatowski drawings, and thought the Piatowski were what were in the instructions to build from. Turns out they are not, and there are a set of MUCH BETTER photo-like drawings of each of the main modules shown from position I through IIII for painting, detailing, etc. I have zipped up those and sent them to Roy (can't do the FTP thing from work, still have power/cable issues at home). If anyone wants these sooner, email me at chanstevens at gmail dot com and I'll shoot a copy directly (about 750k). These are excellent renderings, and while they don't do the hard work of masking and painting for you, they at least make figuring out what/where to mask go much more smoothly.

--Chan Stevens

They are up now.

http://www.soarrocketry.org/saturn

[CPMcGraw]

Just finished putting on the wraps a few minutes ago; all of them fit ok, although I had to make some small trims to the two lowest wraps for the fin can (were a bit too big). The
wraps to the main body section went on pretty good, and the corrugations seem to line
up ok. I really wanted to try using contact cement to apply the wraps (much like the Centuri kit), but "chickened" out as it allows no room for errors. Using white glue makes
the surface a bit uneven, but I suspect that will be taken care of when the base coat of
white paint goes on.

Tomorrow I'll get started on the fin construction; should be interesting and fun!!

I used 3M-90 on the skirt, almost wished I hadn't. The adhesive came out the nozzle looking more like "silly string" than a spray...

I used yellow glue on the LJ-II wraps, and lost much of the embossing details when the moisture soaked into the paper; I didn't want to have that happen this time. After getting the wraps onto the skirt, I sealed the joint edges with thin CA, so they shouldn't come back up.

[chanstevens]

SOme general guidelines I've used over the years on glues that pertain to this project in particular:

Paper/cardstock shrouds--white glue only. Yellow is too brittle/shrinks. Thin layer only, and by thin I mean try to wipe it all off with your finger (multiple passes). What's left is just enough to grip it. I've also tried rubber cement, very forgiving, but tends not to work well on stiffer materials.

Paper wraps (like this Saturn)--the wipe-it-all-off white glue approach tends not to work, as most dries before you can get it aligned and applied. 3M spray adhesive, if done very carefully to the entire back of the wrap can work well, but zero chance to realign/tweak. I'm sort of on the fence--if I'm cocky, I'll go with 3M, otherwise I use the white glue, but have to apply in smaller sections as I go along.

Styrene wraps (other Saturns)--tape the end of the wrap in place first, then wick thin CA along the seams. Not all CA's are equal (see my extensive comment on EMRR's Apogee Saturn V review where I tested something like 5 different brands).

Plastic detail parts (command module)--forget CA's and go straight to the brush-on liquid plastic model cement. It's thin--like water. Apply very sparingly to each surface. I've found that this stuff is pretty strong and absolutely invisible. If you look at my towers, you'd think I employed nanobots to weld them.

About the only place I'll use yellow glue is on wood to wood joints that I'm in a bit of a hurry for, such as some of the fiberboard details. Built-up fins? White glue is the only way to go--no shrink, forgiving while you tug the skins into proper position.

--Chan Stevens

[barone]

Actually, I've had pretty good luck with the 3M-77 spray adhesive. Just make sure you're lined up on the vertical line and it goes on and WON'T come off. Don't even need to CA the seams. :D

[Eagle3]

NOTICE - ATTENTION - HEY YOU!!!!

;) At the request of Carl, I am creating a separate forum just for the Saturn 1b build. This forum is private and will include SVDT members and non-SVDT members. Please remember not to mention, reference, infer, or acknowledge the existence of SVDT and this private folder.

You will be able to see the new forum as a sub to the Semroc forum as soon as you're added.

Buzz

[Carl@Semroc]

Since we have added about 10 or so builders to the Saturn 1B build that were not SVDT members and those that are building the Saturns are under a separate NDA as a part of the build, this discussion will be moved so all the builders can see these critical discussions.

If anyone has the time to cull comments/tips/etc from this thread and re-post them to the new thread for all the builders, it would be greatly appreciated!

For the remaining SVDT members, this is much of a mystery now, but when it is all revealed in the near future, you will understand why we had to do it this way.

[Ltvscout]

You will be able to see the new forum as a sub to the Semroc forum as soon as you're added.
Actually, it's under the Work Bench forum and is called Saturn 1B Celebration. ;)

[Eagle3]

Correct. When I first set it up a SVDT member could see it fine, but hte non-svdt test user could not. Rather than monkey with the Semroc forum permissions I just moved it out.

[Ltvscout]

Correct. When I first set it up a SVDT member could see it fine, but hte non-svdt test user could not. Rather than monkey with the Semroc forum permissions I just moved it out.
I believe I have all of the permission issues fixed for the S1B forum.

Buzz, when you have time could you copy the messages from this thread that started with the build over to the 1B forum?

[rraeford]

Chan wrote:
"Paper wraps (like this Saturn)--...3M spray adhesive, if done very carefully to the entire back of the wrap can work well, but zero chance to realign/tweak."

Actually, there is a way to remove these if you get it wrong (this may have been covered before so if it has please forgive me).

There's a product called Bestine that can be bought at art supply stores. Fill a bottle with an applicator in it and soak the edges of the wrap. The wrap will release with almost no pressure. It's a little tricky to get the hang of but it can be done. The secret is to use a lot of the liquid and not peel faster than the liquid works. After the wrap dries (Bestine evaporates VERY quickly) you can clean, respray and reapply. Bestine doesn't dissolve spray adhesive on contact but it renders it...well...not sticky. Once you remove the wrap you can lay it on a cloth and use a cotton ball (or wipes) soaked in Bestine to remove the old adhesive.

rraeford

[Sheryl@Semroc]

This just came to our attention. Please do not glue the capsule on the service module. If it is glued on, it will not fit in the boxes we have ordered.

Sheryl