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motley16
09-06-2008, 07:23 PM
i have tried to find the best sealer but am still looking . give me some ideas on the best product for fin grain sealing and where you get it . i need a great finish. thanks. :)

stefanj
09-06-2008, 08:25 PM
If you are making a competition model, dope-based "Balsa Fillercoat" is the way to go.

For any other application, I really can't see using anything other than Elmer's filler.

I believe the current name of the version you want is "Elmer's Stainable Wood Filler." (It is referred to as "Fill n' Finish" because that is the old name.)

You thin it down with water to "pancake batter" consistency, then brush it on. It goes on VERY thick and lumpy . . . don't be askeeered of that. After maybe four hours you can sand it off very easily.

Two coats fill in grain well enough for sport models. A couple of more coats for "catalog model" work.

MMMM, OK, there is another alternative that I don't use but that some folks swear by: Kilz primer. I use it as a primer but not a filler.

barone
09-06-2008, 11:13 PM
..................MMMM, OK, there is another alternative that I don't use but that some folks swear by: Kilz primer. I use it as a primer but not a filler.
Kilz primer (spray can version) sprays on very thick and can fill all the wood grain virtually in one application (as well as the spirals on the body tubes).

Another method that is catching on is using card stock or Avery style peel and stick labels. With the card stock, just cut to shape, apply glue, and stick to the fin (I prefer using a 3M spray adhesive). The Avery style label just need to be cut to shape, the backing peeled off then applied to the fin. In either method, the edges should be sealed with some CA to help prevent the card/label from peeling up. No sanding with this method. :)

Bob Kaplow
09-07-2008, 07:53 AM
A couple FnF tips...

A former NIRA member suggested that you put the thinned FnF into a squeeze bottle for dispensing directly onto the spiral lines. It also works for the fin tips. Works great and you don't need a brush at all. Just shake the bottle well before use.

When I'm filling fins, I just squirt the right amount onto the fin, and then use a plastic squeegee to spread it around and get it into the grain.

So I'm totally brush free when using FnF.

=====

Another finishing technique I never tried myself, but heard from someone who built "photo models" for a company that used to print a catalog. You need two thick glass plates. Spray each of them with a mold release or Pam. Coat the two surfaces of the fin with a layer of finishing or laminating (i.e. real thin) epoxy, sandwich them between the coated glass plates, stack a phone book (or one each first through fourth edition of ROTW) on the glass, and allow to cure for whatever the epoxy takes. You should end up with glass like surfaces on the fins, ready to attach and paint.

motley16
09-07-2008, 07:54 AM
thank you. is the elmers product found at craft stores? stefanj? or maybe hobby shops?

Indiana
09-07-2008, 08:14 AM
thank you. is the elmers product found at craft stores? stefanj? or maybe hobby shops?

I've bought it from Wal Mart and Lowe's.

Solomoriah
09-07-2008, 08:34 AM
I got mine at Wal-Mart. Home Depot carries it, too, and often you can find the variety with microballoons there... I need to get me some of that.

ghrocketman
09-08-2008, 09:06 AM
I use nothing but good old-fashioned Dope-based, laden with volatile organic chemicals, Aero-Gloss Sanding Sealer and Aero-Gloss Balsa Fillercoat for finishing balsa parts on rockets to prep them for paint.
NOTHING gives as smooth a finish.

Pactra Aero Gloss is no longer made (I have cases of old stock in my hoard), but equivalent products are made by both Sig and Brodak.
Avoid "hardware store" products that are labeled "sanding sealer" that are intended for finishing floors and furniture; most are either water-based or slow-evaporating solvent based, neither of which are good for rocket parts.

I actually do not like the water-based Elmers Fill-n'-Finish for anything but filling in tube spirals when I rarely perform that tedious and IMHO much-UN-NEEDED step in building average rockets. It makes a MUCH larger mess when sanding the stuff compared to the dope-based "traditional" products.

jetlag
09-08-2008, 10:13 AM
I use Sherwin-Williams lacquer-based gray automotive primer. Brush it on. It dries in minutes, sands to a powder, and will make your fins look like they are glass smooth once final color is painted on. It usually takes three coats: paint on two coats, sand, one more coat, sand and you should be ready to glue the fins on at this point. I use epoxy for everything. Fins will never heat out of position that way. Weight does not really become a problem unless you use lots of it, which is unnecessary most of the time.
A pint can will last for more than 50 rockets, and it ends up cheaper than the Dopes. Thin with acetone or lacquer thinner, if necessary. LOVE the stuff! I do all my filling of balsa before I attach anything to the BT. You can use this material on small body tube spirals, but I prefer FnF for that. One can follow up with the gray SW primer over the FnF to see how well the spirals were indeed, Filled . :D
Allen

tbzep
09-08-2008, 11:10 AM
I use Sherwin-Williams lacquer-based gray automotive primer. Brush it on. It dries in minutes, sands to a powder, and will make your fins look like they are glass smooth once final color is painted on. It usually takes three coats: paint on two coats, sand, one more coat, sand and you should be ready to glue the fins on at this point.


Do you get it at an auto parts store? About how much per quart? That sounds like a great alternative to Elmers, plus I could eliminate the expensive rattle can lacquer primer too.

jetlag
09-08-2008, 11:23 AM
You can get it from any Sherwin Williams automotive paint store. Dupont has a similar product, as well, if you have one of those nearby instead. While there, you can get some fine line vinyl tape of various sizes, and you can get the wet/dry industrial sandpapers also. If you are still unsure, go into the paint store and tell them you need some basic lacquer-based automotive primer. I do not know whether the Pep Boys/Autozones carry this material, but they might. They may even have it in a spray, but that gets expensive and wasteful. Brushing the primer on really gets it into the grain quite well. You can even experiment with various thicknesses of the liquid! If it globs on in a spot, it sands rite down.
I sand on a slate-topped table that is absolutely flat and use a doubled over sheet of Saran wrap on the surface of the table; it 'cushions' the wood as you are sanding. I use it to make the wings for my airplanes, as well.
Hope this helps!
Allen
PS. Like that avatar of Jimmy Page! One of the greatest EVER! Imagine him, Jimmi Hendricks and Eric Clapton in one band.................Wow!

Phred
09-08-2008, 03:00 PM
I have used just about every finishing technique over the years, but have come nack to SIG Nitro Dope and Sanding Sealer.

When I am working with kids, I still use the FnF, but I am not happy with how much the stuff weighs.

Phred

ghrocketman
09-09-2008, 08:49 AM
Weight is one of the worst penalties of that F-n-F junk.
Gimme good old dope with LOADS of evaporating olde-tyme-smelling volatile organic solvents that makes the greenies in Cali just cringe.

PaulK
09-09-2008, 03:04 PM
I've tried all of the aforementioned. For the first time in 30 years, I'm trying aerogloss balsa filltercoat & sanding sealer again. 2 coats of the former, 1 of the latter, and I really like it. Easy to sand, and less messy than FnF, which I typically use. I'll still put a coat of sandable automotive primer, then we'll see how it looks after painting.

ghrocketman
09-09-2008, 03:25 PM
I have found that the F-n-F has it's place, and that is using it as a filler for dents/dings in balsa.
For that purpose it is excellent and is only rivaled by original Aero Gloss "Plastic Balsa" in the tube that has been impossible to find since it has been OOP for about 20 years.
Plastic Wood is almost as good as Plastic Balsa, but is heavier than F-n-F and Plastic Balsa.

I like F-n-F for filling spirals when I deem it neccessary, which is not often unless for a scale model.
For normal builds, I just shoot a couple of coats of lacquer primer on the airframe with sanding in between, followed by Aero gloss Dope topcoat in the correct color.

I think F-n-F is FAR inferior to Aero Gloss Sanding Sealer or Balsa Fillercoat for finishing fins/cones/transitions.
Many people go back to the dope products after trying the water-based F-n-F junk for general finishing.

scigs30
09-09-2008, 03:48 PM
I love the balsa sealer, great stuff always produces nice smooth fins for me. I remember the Plastic balsa. Great stuff, have not tried plastic wood yet. I have been using BalsaLite balsa filler for dents and other oh oh's.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k211/scigs30/100_3933.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k211/scigs30/D4456.jpg

mojo1986
09-09-2008, 04:28 PM
Boy, scigs, the finish on those Bertha fins is some kinda nice!

Joe

MKP
09-09-2008, 07:08 PM
I use Delta-Creamcoat Sanding sealer and it works pretty good, makes for a super smooth finish, but I wish it would fill the balsa grain better. I'd use the Aero Gloss products if I could find them in my area.

scigs30
09-09-2008, 07:27 PM
I use Delta-Creamcoat Sanding sealer and it works pretty good, makes for a super smooth finish, but I wish it would fill the balsa grain better. I'd use the Aero Gloss products if I could find them in my area.
I've been buying mine online in 6 packs.

moonzero2
09-09-2008, 08:50 PM
I've been buying mine online in 6 packs.
Where on line do you purchase your Aero Gloss products?

Ltvscout
09-09-2008, 08:58 PM
Where on line do you purchase your Aero Gloss products?
Knowing what I've learned of David so far, either eBay or Craigslist. ;)

moonzero2
09-09-2008, 09:08 PM
I've been buying mine online in 6 packs.
Since he specifically stated, "6 packs", I assumed he has a good source. David? :confused:

Mark II
09-09-2008, 09:20 PM
Where on line do you purchase your Aero Gloss products?
Hobbytown, USA.

What is the ideal or best sanding sealer? I'm still looking for it. I've had great results, and not-so-great results, with almost all of the techniques that have been mentioned so far. The best stuff that I have used so far is a product called Pine-Pro Water-Based Sanding Sealer (http://www.pinepro.com/images/stock/10059.jpg), from a company called Pine-Pro Competition Components (http://www.pinepro.com/index.shtml). I buy it at my local hobby shop, and find it in the Pine-Car Derby supplies section. I produces a hard but sandable surface when it is dry, and it sands very smooth, especially if you wet-sand it. The problem is that I can only find it in small containers, it goes fast, and the hobby store is 55 miles away. :(

I've recently gone back and tried butyrate dope sanding sealer, for the first time in 40 years, on my Alpha (also the first one that I've built in 40 years). After six coats of Aero Gloss dope, I'm still seeing (and feeling) balsa grain. I'd really like to give SIG nitrate dope and sealer a try next.

Mark \\.

scigs30
09-09-2008, 10:58 PM
Hobblinc.com

Leo
09-10-2008, 12:43 AM
Hobblinc.com

You mean "www.hobbylinc.com" ;)

tbzep
09-10-2008, 07:58 AM
You mean "www.hobbylinc.com" ;)

You mean clicky (www.hobbylinc.com) . :D

Leo
09-10-2008, 11:18 AM
You mean clicky (www.hobbylinc.com) . :D

Ok mr. smarty pants Clickedee click (http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/mid/mid71-4.htm)

Now beat that :p

tbzep
09-10-2008, 12:08 PM
Ok mr. smarty pants Clickedee click (http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/mid/mid71-4.htm)

Now beat that :p

As Charlie Brown would say, "Arrrrrrrggggh!" :p