Official Estes Hobby expo Press Release

[Rocket Doctor]

I am waiting for an official press release from Estes to be posted here before the evening is out.

Check back and as soon as I get the information I will post it.

[Rocket Doctor]

Announcing the Estes product line for 2009.
With BALSA nose cones, laser cut balsa fins, and water slide decals.
These components will be used on the "Classic Series" of kits as well as future Estes kits.

These kits are scheduled for release between Maarch and June 2009. The balance is scheduled to be released in the summer of 2009. I will be posting a seperate list of the summer kit releases.


The Estes Classic Series is a line of rocket products that were introduced to the modeling world during the 1970's and 1980's. This period is fondly remembered by many as the "Golden Age Of Model rocketry", when new exotic designs were appearing at an astonishing rate.

Estes has gone back to the archives, pulled up old drawings and spec sheets and brought these fantastic flying machines back for old and new rocketeers to enjoy. Each kit has been reproduced and updated while still retaining the classic lines of the original. In terms of the kit quality, not much has changed since they were first seen on the market over 20 and 30 years ago. They all have our high quality body tubes, balsa nose cones and laser cut balsa fins. While we cannot turn back the hands of time, we can once again enjoy many of these wonderful models and capture a little of our yourth in the process.

All Classic Rockets will feature high quality balsa nose cones and laser cut balsa fins. All decals will also be high quality waterslide decals with the exception of the 3024 Phoenix Bird, which will have self stick foil decals as was originally done in this kit.

Alien Invader
Skill Level 2
$19.99
Based on Estes 1281

3009 Chuter 2
Skill Level 1
$19.99
Based on Centuri KC-16

3012 Excalibur II
Skill Level 2
$22.99
Based on Centuri KF-5

3013 Flutter-By
Skill Level 1
$12.99
Based on Centuri KA-9

3016 Long Tom
Skill Level 2
$24.99
Based on Centuri KC-4 & 5064

3022 Payloader II
Skill Level 1
$19.99
Based on Centuri KC-20 & 5080

3024 Phoenix Bird
Skill Level 1
$21.99
Based on Centuri 5407

Photon Disruptor
Skill Level 2
$19.99
Based on Estes 1282

3026 Photon Probe
Skill Level 2
$19.99
Based on Estes 2043

3027 Satellite Interceptor
Skill Level 2
$23.99
Based on Estes 1296

3031 Star Trooper
Skill Level 1
$10.99
Based on ?Centuri KM-3

3033 Twister
Skill Level 1
$14.99
Based on Centuri KA-2 & 5002

3036 Marauder
Skill Level 2
$19.99
Based on Estes 1922

3037 Hornet
Skill Level 1
$17.99
Based on Centuri 5341

3039 Thunder Hawk
Skill level 1
$12.99
Based on Centuri 5338

3039 Thunder Bird
Skill Level 1
$17.99
Based on Centuri 5339

3040 Thunder Roc
Skill Level 3
29.99
Based on Centuri 5340



Check for official information often on the Estes web site www.estesrockets.com

More great kits coming from estes, and remember, it's balsa parts.

FYI The kits were designed by Mike Dorffler.

Mike Fritz, Marketing Manager was responsibel for the booth design and layout, brochures and other handouts and product support.

I will be posting the list of the Summer 2009 kits that will be coming out.

[barone]

Well....I hope they make it to the Hobby Lobby shelves so I can use a 40% Off coupon..... :o

[Gus]

Rocket Doctor,

Some observations and questions.

Estes has been very eratic of late. It's hard to figure out their retailing strategy.

Mass market (Walmart) lineup has been reduced to a few RTFs and a few motors so this new announcement doesn't seem to have much to do with them.

A whole bunch of great new hobby-line kits got announced, including Shrox kits, then none got produced.

Info from customer service new catalogs were just about here, then the catalog got axed. Did that have anything to do with this announcement or are the two unrelated?

Now this info that Estes will reproduce over 40 old kits within the next year, when the whole current product line is only 60 kits.

Does this mean much of the current product line is going away, or is this proposed in addition to the current lineup ostensibly targeting a different audience?

Who are the targeted retailers for these kits, mass market, chain hobby shops, independents, online retailers? I can see the iHobby Expo presentation of this lineup as a floater to see if there is enough interest to produce such a product line, but I'm having difficulty imagining who would retail them in addition to current stock.

Bring-backs are a good thing, but I'm having trouble seeing a market for 40 of them as quickly as is being suggested. Any inside scoop as to the marketing strategy at work here?

[AKPilot]

Is it just me, or is anyone else a bit sceptical about the 2009, upcoming, releases?

Seems like a great vision forward, however based on Estes' past, it may be all hype and no releases. Isn't this what they did with Shrox?

[Eagle3]

....

Bring-backs are a good thing, but I'm having trouble seeing a market for 40 of them as quickly as is being suggested. Any inside scoop as to the marketing strategy at work here?

Gus, 40 classics will be no different than 40 new kits to someone shopping at Walmart that has never flown rockets. The merit of classic designs is that they are more unique than the RTF lines from the past few years.

I got the impression from my contact that Mike has been working on this for some time.

[Rocket Doctor]

Rocket Doctor,

Some observations and questions.

Estes has been very eratic of late. It's hard to figure out their retailing strategy.

Mass market (Walmart) lineup has been reduced to a few RTFs and a few motors so this new announcement doesn't seem to have much to do with them.

A whole bunch of great new hobby-line kits got announced, including Shrox kits, then none got produced.

Info from customer service new catalogs were just about here, then the catalog got axed. Did that have anything to do with this announcement or are the two unrelated?

Now this info that Estes will reproduce over 40 old kits within the next year, when the whole current product line is only 60 kits.

Does this mean much of the current product line is going away, or is this proposed in addition to the current lineup ostensibly targeting a different audience?

Who are the targeted retailers for these kits, mass market, chain hobby shops, independents, online retailers? I can see the iHobby Expo presentation of this lineup as a floater to see if there is enough interest to produce such a product line, but I'm having difficulty imagining who would retail them in addition to current stock.

Bring-backs are a good thing, but I'm having trouble seeing a market for 40 of them as quickly as is being suggested. Any inside scoop as to the marketing strategy at work here?


From what i gather, Estes wants to move in a different direction. Having the designs sitting in their files does no good unless they are put to use.

I had heard that Estes wanted to release the Centuri based kits for along time.

I think the reason why the catalog didn't come out was the introduction of all of these kits.

Yes, Mike has been working on these for quite some time, and, he wouldn't be wasting his time if this wasn't for real.

I don't know what had transpired with the Shrox designs, I tired to get the low down to no avail.

The current kits will be still be around with some changes, BALSA parts.

There is other info that I am waiting on to be released here.

In my opinio0n, I think that the retailers wanted something different, so, their getting what they have asked for.

In order for Estes to continue to release "bring backs" and other new kits, they need the support from the hobbyists, who have wanted these kits, and, now finally are getting them.

All i can say, they are moving in the right direction, and, only time will tell how successfull it was/is.

I was surprised myself to see such an assortment of kits, I knew about the BALAS, but, certainly nothing so intense as this.

I guess the Inteerceptor and the Red Max was a guidline and they went over quite well, so, it's onto more classics.

We also have to remember, that Centuri became a part of Estes when Damon took it over and at one time, Estes produced both their own kits and Centuri as well. If you look at the address on some of the Centuri kits, it does state "Penrose". So, all of the designs, prints, decals and related information became a part of Estes.

Also the word "Astron" is still a big part of Estes as well.

I hope this has cleared up some of your questions.

[Ltvscout]

I wouldn't call these bring backs if they're not essentially the same as the originals. I would call them what they're called in your list above, "based on." I was very disappointed to read in another thread that the Centuri models won't have Centuri-sized parts, unless that's just a typo which has happened before.

If that's the case I'll continue to have to wait for Semroc's Retro-Repro of my first rocket, the Payloader II. At least that will have original-sized parts.

[Rocket Doctor]

I wouldn't call these bring backs if they're not essentially the same as the originals. I would call them what they're called in your list above, "based on." I was very disappointed to read in another thread that the Centuri models won't have Centuri-sized parts, unless that's just a typo which has happened before.

If that's the case I'll continue to have to wait for Semroc's Retro-Repro of my first rocket, the Payloader II. At least that will have original-sized parts.

To achieve the exact dimensions as the original Centuri kits, that would mean an entire new inventory of parts with the slight differences in tolerances.

As we all know, the differences between Estes and Centuri parts were small, but, Centuri did it so that parts could not be interchanged.

The BT-56 was a Centuri body tube, whcih Estes used mainly on their RTF's and some others. In my opinion, the difference was just a pin in the butt.

Inorder to have "space" one needs to standardize their parts inventory, like I had mentioned above, it would be like creating a totally new company.

At least we are getting BALSA, laser cut BALSA fins and waterslide decals.

And, if you were to go back over the requests from the former Estes forum and from request here, this is what was requested.

The fact that you don't see RTF's and mostly plastic kits is a move in the right direction.

[Ltvscout]

To achieve the exact dimensions as the original Centuri kits, that would mean an entire new inventory of parts with the slight differences in tolerances.

As we all know, the differences between Estes and Centuri parts were small, but, Centuri did it so that parts could not be interchanged.
I don't consider the differences small at all. Centuri tubes, besides being larger in diameter, were thicker which allowed the kits to be more durable in the long run.

[Rocket Doctor]

I have no idea as to the dimensions on the body tubes and wall thickness. We'll have to wait and see.

It's a start wouldn't you agree on that?

[Ltvscout]

It's a start wouldn't you agree on that?
Like you said, we'll have to wait and see. ;)

[Rocket Doctor]

at least this is a change from the norm...............

[Solomoriah]

Aunt Ester had a husband, Mr. Customer. He wasn't always a good provider, but he was always faithful, and for a while that was good enough for her. But then she had a midlife crisis, and began to fancy the bachelor down the street, Mr. Consumer. He was flashy and well-to-do, with an expensive car and a big house, and he spent his money on her liberally.

She still went home to Mr. Customer, and did the things she was expected to do, but she stopped doing the things he really liked. She was too busy trying to please Mr. Consumer... but he only liked to do it one way, and only when he felt like it.

Finally she saw the error of her ways, and came home to Mr. Customer promising romantic nights where she would do all the special things he always used to like. But Mr. Customer, left alone on many cold nights, had noticed the various charms of several other ladies on the street...

[sandman]

Hey! :mad:

No "bumps" on the Alien Invader's nose cone! :confused:

[Ltvscout]

Hey! :mad:

No "bumps" on the Alien Invader's nose cone! :confused:
Since they went to balsa cones, that would be hard to do. ;) My guess is they no longer have the mold for the original cone. I know that making those molds is very expensive. What I don't understand is why they're not offering the original fin can on the Phoenix Bird? It's the same as the Eliminator, et al, they'd just have to inject with a different color plastic. The press release says it uses TTW fins. That could be a typo though like I'm hoping those Centuri-kit tube dimensions are typos.

[Mikus]

I am encouraged by this, I hope Estes hits their marks. I will certainly buy several of these kits if they do make it to market.

But I would have liked to see more bring backs having attributes that prevent or otherwise substantially deter cloning. Things like funky nose cones, wing pods and other parts that can't be bought or made without some sort of casting setup out in the garage. Call me blasphemer, but I'm asking for more plastic I guess. I mean some of these are pretty cool kits but let's face it, how many 3FNCs can one do before boredom sets in? And can't most of these be cloned already?

And then I see the Maxi-Brutes regularly going for $75+ bucks with the Saturn V and Mercury Atlas kits almost never selling for less than $125 on ebay. I believe if I ran a model rocket company owning those designs, I'd try to get myself a little bit of that money; esp. with next year being the 40th anniversary of Apollo 11. I guess obtaining the parts for those kits would be too expensive for the profit margin Estes is trying to achieve.

In fact I kinda see 2 goals behind this particular selection of bring backs, although both are, of course, just theories. One is to play off the nostalgia craze at the cheapest cost possible - hence picking designs that can use already readily available balsa nose cones and bits rather than needing to cast new plastic parts. Two is to take a swing at taking away some of their competitors' cloning business.

Am I being overly paranoid? Do you think we'll ever see some of the more exotic designs from the past as "Classics"? Would you agree that the future of Estes bring backs pretty much hinges on these selling very well?

[Eagle3]

.... Do you think we'll ever see some of the more exotic designs from the past as "Classics"? Would you agree that the future of Estes bring backs pretty much hinges on these selling very well?

That's a fair guess. I think the word used for all these classic releases was "test".

[Initiator001]

Estes is certainly trying to get get back to the 'hobby' side of the business with these new kts.

Their attendance at iHobby 2008, the first in many years, is an indication as is the two page, full color, ad Estes is running in the Hobby Merchandiser 2008 Fall Buyers Guide that was sent along with the October 2008 issue of HM. This Guide is a special edition for the iHobby Show.

New/old motors, too. Cool. :D

Maybe Estes has gone as far as it can with the mass-merchandisers (Wal-Mart, Target, etc.) and to bring in additional revenue they have gone back to the 'hobby'.

Bob

[scigs30]

I am so glad Estes is moving in the direction they are heading. Yes there are some differences between the originals and the bring backs, but that is ok. I hope new rocketeers will buy these kits in the hobby stores and have just as much fun as we did when we were young. New hobbiest will not know the difference between the originals and the bring backs. They are still fantastic designs and I am saving my money. I am still curious if Estes is making their own balsa nose cones or if they are contracted out.

[Royatl]

I am still curious if Estes is making their own balsa nose cones or if they are contracted out.

I was wondering that myself. A couple of years ago Bill Saindon (BMS) said he had acquired a machine that would allow him to make "mass quantities" of certain nose cone shapes more economically. I wondered then if he had gotten that machinery from Estes, though others thought that probably Estes had gotten rid of that equipment a decade ago. If they then contracted back out to him, they don't need to risk the capital investment in new equipment in case they aren't popular, and they can get just the quantities they need.

[dwmzmm]

I was wondering that myself. A couple of years ago Bill Saindon (BMS) said he had acquired a machine that would allow him to make "mass quantities" of certain nose cone shapes more economically. I wondered then if he had gotten that machinery from Estes, though others thought that probably Estes had gotten rid of that equipment a decade ago. If they then contracted back out to him, they don't need to risk the capital investment in new equipment in case they aren't popular, and they can get just the quantities they need.

Maybe that's why the BMS Kit of the Month program has slowed down some?!.......

[Rocket Doctor]

Since they went to balsa cones, that would be hard to do. ;) My guess is they no longer have the mold for the original cone. I know that making those molds is very expensive. What I don't understand is why they're not offering the original fin can on the Phoenix Bird? It's the same as the Eliminator, et al, they'd just have to inject with a different color plastic. The press release says it uses TTW fins. That could be a typo though like I'm hoping those Centuri-kit tube dimensions are typos.

In my opinion, it seems that they are getting away from plastic. As you had mentioned, the price of molds are very expensive, the price of oil is still high causing higher material costs and you don't know what ic coming out of China these days. Mattel knows all about that.

[Rocket Doctor]

I am encouraged by this, I hope Estes hits their marks. I will certainly buy several of these kits if they do make it to market.

But I would have liked to see more bring backs having attributes that prevent or otherwise substantially deter cloning. Things like funky nose cones, wing pods and other parts that can't be bought or made without some sort of casting setup out in the garage. Call me blasphemer, but I'm asking for more plastic I guess. I mean some of these are pretty cool kits but let's face it, how many 3FNCs can one do before boredom sets in? And can't most of these be cloned already?

And then I see the Maxi-Brutes regularly going for $75+ bucks with the Saturn V and Mercury Atlas kits almost never selling for less than $125 on ebay. I believe if I ran a model rocket company owning those designs, I'd try to get myself a little bit of that money; esp. with next year being the 40th anniversary of Apollo 11. I guess obtaining the parts for those kits would be too expensive for the profit margin Estes is trying to achieve.

In fact I kinda see 2 goals behind this particular selection of bring backs, although both are, of course, just theories. One is to play off the nostalgia craze at the cheapest cost possible - hence picking designs that can use already readily available balsa nose cones and bits rather than needing to cast new plastic parts. Two is to take a swing at taking away some of their competitors' cloning business.

Am I being overly paranoid? Do you think we'll ever see some of the more exotic designs from the past as "Classics"? Would you agree that the future of Estes bring backs pretty much hinges on these selling very well?

Estes is going back to their roots, so many have voiced their displeasure with too much plastic, too many RTF's and not having "classic kits". Now, Estes has begun to change, listening to their customers.

It has nothing to do with any other rocket company, I guess after hearing so much feedback, from both forums, they figured, why not mave in another direction.

Estes started off with these kits, and, as I had mentioned previously, Estes and centuri became one company, they all all of the documentations, why not use it.

Maybe the dimensions aren't totally the same, but, like I also mentioned before, that would be like starting a totally new company in my opinion.

You can only carry so much in stock, before it gets out of hand.

Right now, estes have over 80 different nose cones in plastic, that's a lot of molds, and with the price of raw material on the rise on a regular basis, that would be prohibitive.

There giving us the balsa we requested, there giving us the "bring backs" as we requested, there giving us the motors we have requested.

In my opinion, I don't know what more Estes can do to show the hobby world that they are open to suggestiongs and willing to make changes.

[Rocket Doctor]

I was wondering that myself. A couple of years ago Bill Saindon (BMS) said he had acquired a machine that would allow him to make "mass quantities" of certain nose cone shapes more economically. I wondered then if he had gotten that machinery from Estes, though others thought that probably Estes had gotten rid of that equipment a decade ago. If they then contracted back out to him, they don't need to risk the capital investment in new equipment in case they aren't popular, and they can get just the quantities they need.

Not from BMS, back in 2005 when I waanted to have the Astron Scout brought back for the 50th anniversary, BMS was contacted, but, the project was dropped and that was that.

[Royatl]

Not from BMS, back in 2005 when I waanted to have the Astron Scout brought back for the 50th anniversary, BMS was contacted, but, the project was dropped and that was that.

yea, but he apparently didn't have the machinery back then for high volume. What sort of numbers was Estes thinking about in 2005? Just a WAG that it would be at least 2500 to make it worth their while, maybe more. In 1991 they made that 2500 unit run of Mars Snoopers, but that was when they still had the machinery (2500 each of a nose cone and a transition, 7500 each of the two pod cones, + extras for warrantee)

[Rocket Doctor]

yea, but he apparently didn't have the machinery back then for high volume. What sort of numbers was Estes thinking about in 2005? Just a WAG that it would be at least 2500 to make it worth their while, maybe more. In 1991 they made that 2500 unit run of Mars Snoopers, but that was when they still had the machinery (2500 each of a nose cone and a transition, 7500 each of the two pod cones, + extras for warrantee)

Bringing back the Scout had nothing to do with the capacity to produce balsa parts , rather the anniversary itself.

Hence, the Golden Scout program.

[scigs30]

Now if we can only get Estes to improve on their waterslide decals.

[gpoehlein]

All I can say is, if Estes follows through and brings out those kits and the new (old) motors, I will happily buy many of the kits and lots of the A8-0 motors (I already have a large stock of A10-0T motors so I won't need any of those for a while :p )

Greg

[Rocket Doctor]

The seventeen kits listed in the beginning of this post are scheduled to be released between March and June 2009.


It would be safe to say that the two motors the A8-0's and the A10-0T's would be available in the same time period. The B6-0 are out now.

The remaining 25 kits are scheduled for release in the summer of 2009, probably August to Oct, just a guess.

There are more in the works, as well as updates to the present kit line as well.

Keep checking the Estes web pag for updates www.estesrockets.com

Information will be posted there on the releases and any other additional information.

Remember that they are using BALSA nose cones, Laseer cut BALSA fins and waterslide decals.

[AKPilot]

Okay gents I got to fondle all of the new kits coming out next year.

See TRF for my comments on iHobby.

[scigs30]

I think most of us remember walking down the isles at our LHS as kids and seeing all the Estes kits. For the last 10 years or so this has not been the case. I am glad they are targeting the hobby shops, I think this will be positive step forward for our hobby. I agree longer shock cords would be nice. Christine at Estes sent me a bunch of 36 inch 1/8 rubber cords some time back and that is what I have been using. I have never had a single problem. I would like the see Estes package and construct the kits in the USA. Also would be nice to be able to order replacement parts on-line at their website. I will be purchasing the classic kits that Estes releases, and I hope others do the same. I really hope Estes is sincere about the adventure they are about to embark on.

[Chas Russell]

Nope. As long as the Estes kits are not made in America with American made parts, I will not purchase them. It is a stand. Besides, you can purchase the materials from other companies to make most of these models. Wow, made in America, too.

Chas

[PaulK]

Hey! :mad: No "bumps" on the Alien Invader's nose cone! :confused:Yeah, it just won't be the same. Hopefully Sirius will produce a big batch of those, or we'll be sanding hunks of balsa by hand. I *won't* build an Alien Invader without the unique NC.

[Royatl]

Yeah, it just won't be the same. Hopefully Sirius will produce a big batch of those, or we'll be sanding hunks of balsa by hand. I *won't* build an Alien Invader without the unique NC.

Speaking of which...

Has Sirius done *anything* with Moldin Oldies since the last run he was selling back at NARCON?

[Mikus]

In my opinion, I don't know what more Estes can do to show the hobby world that they are open to suggestiongs and willing to make changes.


I sure do like reading that from you. *excited*

C'mon Estes, don't let us down.

[Rocket Doctor]

Nope. As long as the Estes kits are not made in America with American made parts, I will not purchase them. It is a stand. Besides, you can purchase the materials from other companies to make most of these models. Wow, made in America, too.

Chas


Who says that they won't be made in the USA? Let's see what the package says.

[AKPilot]

;) Who says that they won't be made in the USA? Let's see what the package says.

Estes rep at iHobby said yesterday that the rerelease kits will be made in America, not China.

Of course, I'll give them a break as I don't know of too many bamboo plantations here in the states. ;)

My difficulty with Estes isn't the fact that they may finally be "hearing" what hobbyists have to say. I will need to see the delivery of these items to believe anything, as the Shrox designs have all been canned - in a typical "eliminate the competition buy out". It's the fact that outside of Christine and Mary, my personal experience with Estes has been dismal at best. Barry Tunick's telephone call to me, after me asking a simple question about the 50th anniversary, left me with an extremely-extremely poor opinion of Estes. As a customer with a legitimate question should never have been treated in such a fashion. If "Vern and Gleda don't exist" as far as he's concerned he has the full power and authority to change the name of the company. It's up to the company to earn my trust and money back.

As a side note, if I ever came into some money I can promise you that I'd be the first to offer/recruit both Christine and Mary a position within my company - at their requested rate, with full relocation benefits offered. Barry has at least those two people giving his company a marked amount of creditibily with me.

[Solomoriah]

If "Vern and Gleda don't exist" as far as he's concerned
... then he doesn't exist to me.

[Initiator001]

Did anyone who attended the iHobby Show take pictures of the new Estes products?

I'd sure like to see some images other than the press handout. ;)

Bob

[Gus]

Did anyone who attended the iHobby Show take pictures of the new Estes products?

I'd sure like to see some images other than the press handout. ;)

Bob
For those of you who were there, were the Classic Series kits the only kits on display or were all the current lineup there?

It is very difficult to believe Estes would produce their current lineup AND the new line simultaneously (100 kits?).

I see the retailer market for the Classic Series as being the same outlets as their current, non-mass-market kits. Somehow I don't see the Classic series as growing the market, just competing for the same buyers as the current hobby lineup. That's why I asked about the marketing strategy.

[sandman]

For those of you who were there, were the Classic Series kits the only kits on display or were all the current lineup there?

It is very difficult to believe Estes would produce their current lineup AND the new line simultaneously (100 kits?).

I see the retailer market for the Classic Series as being the same outlets as their current, non-mass-market kits. Somehow I don't see the Classic series as growing the market, just competing for the same buyers as the current hobby lineup. That's why I asked about the marketing strategy.

To me, it just doesn't make good business sense for a company the size of Estes.

SEMROC does their homework and puts out an accurate repro of the old kits. From the brief description it seems like the Estes 'bring backs" are just sorta, kinda like the old kits. I'd buy the SEMROC version first.

They don't advertise in "Boy's Life" any more...is there still a "Boy's Life"? How are they going to get the word out to new customers? Kids don't "crave" models like that any more and we old timers just aren't a big enough market really.

This move has me scratching my head.

[Eagle3]

The way it was explained to me......

We asked for balsa nose cones and laser cut fins
We asked classic kits
We asked for the A10-0 and A8-0
and that this is a test.

My thoughts....
The classic designs are timeless. Doesn't matter that they were released before. To anyone getting into the hobby the classics are going to be more appealing than another RTF. Why? Because they're cool designs. It's not like they brought back a Chrysler K car. :rolleyes:

[Niteowl]

........They don't advertise in "Boy's Life" any more...is there still a "Boy's Life"?........

My son gets "Boys' Life" as a Cub Scout.

Commercial advertising seems to be kept to a minimum. Several I checked, latest being this July's issue, had a full column ad for the Estes "Astrovision" launch set. Otherwise, there were a few full page ads, and one page with smaller ads that were Scout orientated material. The magazine is pretty bare ad-wise and packed full of great stories and activities for kids.

BOT...

I myself was thrilled to see the Photon Disruptor in the Classic Series line-up. BUT, I recently received two sets of fins and decals from Semroc and Excelsior to build a Photon Disruptor (forgot the NC). :rolleyes:

For the kits to be "Made In USA" seems almost too much to hope for. That would be good to see. I've reluctantly bought a few Estes kits made in China.

[Carl@Semroc]

... But Mr. Customer, left alone on many cold nights, had noticed the various charms of several other ladies on the street...That's funny! :D

[cas2047]

After being burned by Estes in the past I'm taking a wait and see attitude. However if they do come through with the kits I will definitely buy. If the kits are made in America that's a big plus.

[AKPilot]

I went. The only kits I saw and put my hands on were those being announced for 2009. Maybe I did see the Solar Flare & Interceptor but, can't remember the others.

I choose not to take pictures, because honestly their new flyer shows the exact same thing. I do remember that the mini-Red Max and Corporal/Sgt (sorry I forgot the name for a few minutes here) was small, obviously. They did have nice, show-type, finishes on them but, I was taken a bit back by the MSRPs as I know some of the other rocketry vendors were as well.

However, I do recognize that balsa has gone up recently as has basswood. And I also realize that these will be made in the states vs. China which was welcomed news. I still would wait cautiously, as vendors have made such announcements before at iHobby and the kits were never released. Especially with Estes' proven track record of doing exactly that. Hopefully, they're coming to realize that they've dropped the ball in the past, much to our disappointment, and will make a concerted effort to make good on these upcoming promises.

Still Estes, if you're reading why not ask us what we want and set yourself up for success - rather than simply release models in the hopes that we'll buy. Other vendors ask or have us vote for what we want - it's really a pretty simple way of guaging how successful your products might be; especially if these are not going to be released through Wal-mart. We are your customers, remember?

[Shreadvector]

Is it just me, or is anyone else a bit sceptical about the 2009, upcoming, releases?

Seems like a great vision forward, however based on Estes' past, it may be all hype and no releases. Isn't this what they did with Shrox?

They have released a large number of cool kits. Interceptors in regular and E version. They ain't chopped liver.

Sometimes models are delayed from their anticipated 'on the shelf' date. So was the A380 and the 787. C'est la vie.

[Shreadvector]

So, balsa nose cones....what about the shortage of balsa and the soaring prices I heard about (a result of massive use in windmill blades and maybe 463L pallets)?


cool. Wikipedia has everything (including a link to AAR)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/463L_master_pallet

This post is semi-work related. ;)

[cas2047]

C'est la vie.

What no WAV file for C'est la vie???? ;)

[Shreadvector]

What no WAV file for C'est la vie???? ;)

Too dangerous. People's ears will bleed.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wav%20c'est%20la%20vie&btnG=Google+Search

[tbzep]

The Emerson, Lake and Palmer version is good to the ears. :cool:

[cas2047]

Too dangerous. People's ears will bleed.



Safety First! Makes sense to me! :D

[Rocket Doctor]

;)

Estes rep at iHobby said yesterday that the rerelease kits will be made in America, not China.

Of course, I'll give them a break as I don't know of too many bamboo plantations here in the states. ;)

My difficulty with Estes isn't the fact that they may finally be "hearing" what hobbyists have to say. I will need to see the delivery of these items to believe anything, as the Shrox designs have all been canned - in a typical "eliminate the competition buy out". It's the fact that outside of Christine and Mary, my personal experience with Estes has been dismal at best. Barry Tunick's telephone call to me, after me asking a simple question about the 50th anniversary, left me with an extremely-extremely poor opinion of Estes. As a customer with a legitimate question should never have been treated in such a fashion. If "Vern and Gleda don't exist" as far as he's concerned he has the full power and authority to change the name of the company. It's up to the company to earn my trust and money back.

As a side note, if I ever came into some money I can promise you that I'd be the first to offer/recruit both Christine and Mary a position within my company - at their requested rate, with full relocation benefits offered. Barry has at least those two people giving his company a marked amount of creditibily with me.




The time frame for the first releases is from March to June 2009, the summer kits on list two will be later on in the year, probably in the August time frame, my guess.

[Rocket Doctor]

For those of you who were there, were the Classic Series kits the only kits on display or were all the current lineup there?

It is very difficult to believe Estes would produce their current lineup AND the new line simultaneously (100 kits?).

I see the retailer market for the Classic Series as being the same outlets as their current, non-mass-market kits. Somehow I don't see the Classic series as growing the market, just competing for the same buyers as the current hobby lineup. That's why I asked about the marketing strategy.


Since these classic kits have not been produced in such a long time, in my opinion, you could consider them as "new" kits. For many of the neweer rocketees, they would be new to them.

[Shreadvector]

Craig (or "Craig") is a nice guy who knows model rockets, Estes products (and others) and, most importantly, the reality of retail sales of hobby products.

Are you officially representing Estes on YORF these days? I'm only asking because your posts do not make it crystal clear if you are officially posting as someone affiliated with Estes or simply as an outside enthusiast.

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=50636&postcount=2

[Solomoriah]

Honestly, RD, you'd think you were a CURRENT Estes employee...

[Doug Sams]

So, balsa nose cones....<blasphemy warning>
Ya know, I like plastic nose cones. They are a bit easier to finish, and - more importantly - they don't get easily dinged. Call me a heretic, but I like styrene nosecones :) (However, the polypropylene (?) HPR cones are something else altoghether :( )
</blasphemy>

Back to the main thread, I'm saving my lunch money for those A8-0's and A10-0T's - even tho I already have a butt load of A10-0T's in my stash - it's great news - if it's true - because it means they'll again be kosher to fly at club launches - hooray :D

Doug

.

[Rocket Doctor]

Craig (or "Craig") is a nice guy who knows model rockets, Estes products (and others) and, most importantly, the reality of retail sales of hobby products.

I thought he did not work for eHobbies these days.

Are you officially representing Estes on YORF these days? I'm only asking because your posts do not make it crystal clear if you are officially posting as someone affiliated with Estes or simply as an outside enthusiast.

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=50636&postcount=2

I posted the original release here afteer being asked to by the marketing dept.

I will not be acting here on an official capacity, I can only offer my opinion.

But, those comments made by "Craig" were not in an official capacity for or on the behalf of Estes.

As you know, my passion for the hobby is evident with my involvement with the defunct Estes forum, this forum and my involvement with the Golden scout and NARAM.

[Shreadvector]

I don't know anything about the internal politics but Craig was manning the Estes booth along with Bill and was indeed representing Estes interests- unless he stole their t-shirt. Are you saying that he was not supposed to be representing Estes at the trade show- as if he had no such permission?

Interestingly enough, he said that you were employed by Estes as a 'contract employee' and never a 'full' employee. He was more concerned with your representations as someone who does not work for the company than his own representations. Just passing along the information.

You clearly dispplay a clear understanding of the difference between all the various people involved with an event like this. There are official company spokespeople, there can be full time employees, there can be part time or contract employees and there can be informal friends of Estes corp who simply volunteer to help out.

We help out at large shows and conventions whenever we are asked and are available. ("we" = members of SCRA NAR section 430). We can staff a make&take area and we can wear Estes shirts if they are supplied. If Estes is sponsoring the make&take, we request that club members THINK and not waer any logo clothing of their competitors as doing so is pretty darned rude.

Anyway, we make it clear to folks that we are not employees of Estes and that we are volunteers from the local club (and we hang our club banner on the back wall/drape of the booth.

On rare occasions, if there is only one Estes rep in an official Estes booth and they need to use the restroom, they may ask one of us to stand in for them and wathc the booth. We know not to pontificate on behalf of the Estes-Cox corp. If we can answer a question and direct them to the available literature, great. If not, we ask them to stay a few minutes until the official representative returns.

I think many rocket folks have done similar things at booths for Quest or Aerotech when those fine folks need to deal with the aftermath of their morning coffee (or super big gulp).

:D

[Gus]

<blasphemy warning>
Ya know, I like plastic nose cones. They are a bit easier to finish, and - more importantly - they don't get easily dinged. Call me a heretic, but I like styrene nosecones :) (However, the polypropylene (?) HPR cones are something else altoghether :( )
</blasphemy>

Doug

.
Doug,

I'm with you on this one.

We have plenty of great suppliers of balsa nosecones. The principal advantage of balsa cones is that they are economical to produce in small numbers. Unfortunately they don't get much cheaper to produce in large numbers. Their downside is that they are less durable, harder to finish, and are pretty limited to cones, ogives, etc (I double dog dare anybody else to produce a drop-nose Nova cone like Sandman does). ;)

Plastic cones, on the other hand, require large quantities to be economical to produce but are less prone to damage, easier to finish, and are producible in a far greater variety of interesting shapes.

Bottom line is Estes is the only manufacturer currently producing kits in large enough volumes to make the plastic parts economical to produce. I would love to see them bring back kits with the great plastic nosecones, like they did with the Interceptors.

[Shreadvector]

Um, did you read my words? I said that you clearly had a clear understanding. I was agreeing with you and complimenting you.

I have no conspiracy theories.

And I do not play a doctor on TV. ;)


That's not correct. I've spent tens of thousands of dollars exhibiting in trade shows and am extremely familiar with them. I also owned business doing shopping center promotions and dealing with exhibitors- a pretty much related business, and my knowledge in this area far exeeds yours.



Yes, all of these people can be involved, but Craig was there as an offical representative. Furthermore, Bill Dillman talked less but was a part of our conversations. The two of them stood right next to me. So for what it's worth the 'official' Estes representative was there when we had our conversation. Yet that won't support any wacked out conspiracy theories of some....

[Doug Sams]

And I do not play a doctor on TV. ;)But did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night?

<vbg>

Doug

.

[jetlag]

OOOOO, a USS America!! :eek: :D I never got to build any of the 'Super kits' , so I am looking forward to this one, then the rest! I'll buy at least two of all they 'bring back'! RD says they have listened; cut'em some slack and let's see what they bring us. So far, it all sounds great! Be optimistic and quit micromanaging, guys! Be happy! :D
Allen

[jetlag]

Withdrawn your honor.

My point is that the two guys I talked to provided some really good information and it's unusual that anyone is questioning whether or not they even had a right to be answering questions on behalf of Estes.

It was nice to see that their display consisted solely of these re-issues, and nothing else. I too will be interested to see which kits actually get released. But they display certainly gave the impression that this is what they are promoting.

Very hopeful here! :D

[cas2047]

<blasphemy warning>
Call me a heretic, but I like styrene nosecones :)

Doug

.

HERETIC! Just kidding. ;) :D

I also like plastic nose cones for the same reasons you mention. I also like balsa as well.

[Ltvscout]

But did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night?

<vbg>

Doug

.
Darn! You beat me to it! :D

Actually, they advertise it as Holiday Inn Express. ;)

[Solomoriah]

Yeah, if you stay at a regular Holiday Inn, you're a lot less smart in the morning... :D

(what? i wasn't supposed to make that connection?)

[ga1ba2]

I agree with Jetlag. Just wait and see. Estes has produced many rockets that appeal to a wide range of tastes and construction skills. Who doesn't like a Big Daddy, Mean Machine, Interceptor E and many others. If Estes actually only produces a fraction of what they say it is better than they have done in the recent past. They need to be supported and encouraged by our purchasing whatever they put out that appeals to us. I am looking forward to next Spring and Summer and some new(old) rocket kits. :)

[Der Red Max]

Who doesn't like a Big Daddy, Mean Machine,...

Well since you did ask...

Me! :p

However, the others I do like.:D

[Shreadvector]

Might I point out the following: At some hobby shows, a manufacturer will distribute flyers and have display models of potential new product. They are there to get ORDERS from their large distributors. If these orders materialize, the items go into production. If there are no orders or orders are below a threshold determined by a business study they will not go into production because there is no projected profit.

Hopefully they get the orders!

[scigs30]

Does anyone know if Estes will appear at any showings on the West Coast in the near future?

[Shreadvector]

What shows are on the West Coast?

The only one I personally know Estes contributes massively to is the RCX show in Pomona CA. They donate hundreds of E2X kits (Bandit type) for the Make & Take and we supply the volunteer labor. Hobby People is the huge presence and Estes has the free product shipped to them.


Does anyone know if Estes will appear at any showings on the West Coast in the near future?

[mperdue]

OOOOO, a USS America!! :eek: :D I never got to build any of the 'Super kits' ...
You might want to have a look at the next issue of LAUNCH Magazine.

Mario

[Royatl]

You might want to have a look at the next issue of LAUNCH Magazine.

Mario

They're finally taking out an ad maybe? After two years?

[dwmzmm]

They're finally taking out an ad maybe? After two years?


That's what I think. I think that Estes has finally decided to listen to veteran model rocketeers and people like the Rocket Doctor and see what happens. I like the lineup of
kits Estes has coming out next year, and, yes, I'll be buying some (if not all) of them!

[mperdue]

They're finally taking out an ad maybe? After two years?
Not that I'm aware of. However the last item listed on the Coming Soon page (http://launchmagonline.com/launch-magazine/coming-soon) might be of interest.

Mario

[BAR_Daddy]

...Ya know, I like plastic nose cones. They are a bit easier to finish, and - more importantly - they don't get easily dinged. Call me a heretic, but I like styrene nosecones ...


Aghhhhh! My eyes!!!! They burn!!!!!!





:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

[BAR_Daddy]

But did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night?

<vbg>

Doug

.


You mean a Holiday Inn Express... ;)

Oh, BTW:


BALSA RULES!!! :D :D :D

[Initiator001]

(Reopening an old thread)

I was checking the Tower Hobbies website and they have updated the expected arrival dates for the new Estes Classic Series and other new kits for hobby distributors/retailers.

As has already been noted by several people, a delay in the availability of these new kits was pretty much a given.

The new availability date for these products according to the Tower Hobbies website is early August.

That's okay, it will give me more time to save money to buy all these new kits. ;)

Bob

[scigs30]

I received the same update. I have already pre-ordered one of each.

[MDorffler]

Hey! :mad:

No "bumps" on the Alien Invader's nose cone! :confused:

That;s because that the members on this forum DEMANDED Estes return to all balsa nosecones - and no more plastics. We did what you guys demanded. Now you have to live without the bumps unless you want to carve them yourself.

[hcmbanjo]

Went to my local Hobby Shop here in Orlando, Florida to buy some balsa. The store is Colonial Photo and Hobby. I believe this store has been a family business since the late 1950s or early 1960s.
I noticed the wall of rockets was sparce. They had one quarter of their normal Estes and Custom inventory.
One of the owners comented on how he was having trouble getting shipments of Estes products from distributors. I said it might have to do with all the new kits on the way. I rerferred him to the "Classics Series" on the Estes website.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

That;s because that the members on this forum DEMANDED Estes return to all balsa nosecones - and no more plastics. We did what you guys demanded. Now you have to live without the bumps unless you want to carve them yourself.

:chuckle: :chuckle: WE'VE BEEN SERVED!!!
All right. Who wants to fess up for the ass-kicking. :D

[Gus]

That;s because that the members on this forum DEMANDED Estes return to all balsa nosecones - and no more plastics. We did what you guys demanded. Now you have to live without the bumps unless you want to carve them yourself.Mike,

What's so funny is that the post you responded to was written by Sandman, who's probably one of the very few who could actually add his own bumps. :D

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Mike,

What's so funny is that the post you responded to was written by Sandman, who's probably one of the very few who could actually add his own bumps. :D

Man, I can't WAIT to see the balsa cone if they bring back the Estes Odyssey. :chuckle: :rolleyes:

[Leo]

That;s because that the members on this forum DEMANDED Estes return to all balsa nosecones - and no more plastics. We did what you guys demanded. Now you have to live without the bumps unless you want to carve them yourself.
Touché Mike :)

I think it doesn't really matter if it's a nose cone in balsa without the bumps because the new generation of kids don't even know the historical significance.

Anyway, one can always alter the NC or purchase one from here (http://www.siriusrocketry.com/eshop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26_42_54&products_id=173) (granted with a hefty price tag).

[mycrofte]

I like the plastic nose cones for all of the said reasons. But I hate the plastic fins and engine mounts. I had never messed with them until I got the E2X Bandit with a eBay order. I avoided them before out of principal.

But, I will be happy to see any of the old kits they bring back. Some of the ones I disliked as a kid I like now. Which is what got me into scratch building this last 6 months.