Estes DOM PeeWee

[JAL3]

I was looking through my collection of old DOM plans and found one called the 2 stage PeeWee. When I took a closer look, it listed a BT-3 for the body. The data I found ofr that tube from Fliskits and from Semroc give an ID of 0.349. A BT-5 (13mm motor) has an ID of 0.515.

Question: are these the same BT-3 tubes mentioned in the Estes DOM plan?

If so, what did they fly on since a 13mm would not fit?

Thanks,

[CPMcGraw]

I was looking through my collection of old DOM plans and found one called the 2 stage PeeWee. When I took a closer look, it listed a BT-3 for the body. The data I found ofr that tube from Fliskits and from Semroc give an ID of 0.349. A BT-5 (13mm motor) has an ID of 0.515.

Question: are these the same BT-3 tubes mentioned in the Estes DOM plan?

If so, what did they fly on since a 13mm would not fit?

Thanks,

No, not the same at all. Take a look at the 1962 Estes catalog, pages 3 & 4. In 1963 or 64 the designations were changed.

BT-1 = 13 3/4" long, ID = 0.765", OD = 0.825" (wall thickness 0.030")
BT-3 = 9 1/4" long, ID = 0.725", OD = 0.765" (wall thickness 0.020")

Estes did not have 13mm motors at this time.

(BTW -- Love the tagline... :chuckle: )

[JAL3]

No, not the same at all. Take a look at the 1962 Estes catalog, pages 3 & 4. In 1963 or 64 the designations were changed.

BT-1 = 13 3/4" long, ID = 0.765", OD = 0.825" (wall thickness 0.030")
BT-3 = 9 1/4" long, ID = 0.725", OD = 0.765" (wall thickness 0.020")

Estes did not have 13mm motors at this time.

(BTW -- Love the tagline... :chuckle: )

So would that correspond best to the Semroc BT30 tube currently listed?

I'm guessing that I would just need to give the motor an extra wrap of tape.

Thanks,

[CPMcGraw]

So would that correspond best to the Semroc BT30 tube currently listed?

I'm guessing that I would just need to give the motor an extra wrap of tape.

Thanks,

That's the closest match, being the same ID but slightly larger OD (0.002"). The 62 catalog says these were "ivory-colored tubes", and I think another discussion said they might have been hand-wound and parallel-wrapped.

Additional information to overload your brain cells... :D

The BT-2 tube had the same diameters as BT-1, but had a different length (shorter, I think). The 62 catalog suggests this to be the case, as it offered PNC-1 and PNC-2 nose cones together with the BT-1 tube. The BNC-1A nose cone fit the BT-1 tube. However, the BNC-1 nose cone fit the BT-3 tube. Clear as Mississippi mud, right?

BT-3 was the original tube for the Scout...

The closest nose cone to the original BNC-2A looks to be the SEMROC BNC-30C (spherical). I think the length of 1 1/8" listed in the 62 catalog included the shoulder length.

[Royatl]

So would that correspond best to the Semroc BT30 tube currently listed?

I'm guessing that I would just need to give the motor an extra wrap of tape.

Thanks,

BT-1 = Semroc/Estes BT-40 (also MMI BT-1), and Quest now has a version of it (for a limited time!) that they're using for their commemorative Aerobee-Hi kit.

BT-3 = Semroc/Estes(and other vendors) BT-30.

[JAL3]

Thanks for the info. I think I'll try to build this one.

[JAL3]

I just placed an order with Semroc.

I better go check the mailbox and see if its here yet.

[Mark II]

I love those old E.I.R.P. plans from the early '60's! This was the kind of stuff that was in the literature that I received from Estes Industries when I got into rocketry in '67. You get the feeling that these were the kinds of designs that they were flying right at the dawn of the hobby, when Vern Estes and Harry Stine and a small group of other fliers were still figuring things out. Nothing too terribly big or complicated, these early plans have a quaint kind of home-brewed quality about them. It is as if they were made when the total number of model rocketeers was still just in the dozens, not even in the hundreds yet, and everyone was trying everything that they could think of (within reason) to see if any of it would actually work. It must have been a very heady, very exciting time. Looking at these old plans gives me a sense of that, and I want to build and launch many of them in order to get the actual feeling of it, too.

You will show us pictures of your build, won't you, John? ;) :D

Mark \\.

[JAL3]

I love those old E.I.R.P. plans from the early '60's! This was the kind of stuff that was in the literature that I received from Estes Industries when I got into rocketry in '67. You get the feeling that these were the kinds of designs that they were flying right at the dawn of the hobby, when Vern Estes and Harry Stine and a small group of other fliers were still figuring things out. Nothing too terribly big or complicated, these early plans have a quaint kind of home-brewed quality about them. It is as if they were made when the total number of model rocketeers was still just in the dozens, not even in the hundreds yet, and everyone was trying everything that they could think of (within reason) to see if any of it would actually work. It must have been a very heady, very exciting time. Looking at these old plans gives me a sense of that, and I want to build and launch many of them in order to get the actual feeling of it, too.

You will show us pictures of your build, won't you, John? ;) :D

Mark \\.

I share your feelings about the allure of these early designs. I like old things. I still use a straight razor and an one of the few Methodists around who likes the Tridentine Mass (Latin).

The parts came in from Semroc and its rather forward in my priority list. This time of year though is really busy for me. Its made worse in that we are scheduled to move into our new church on 21 Dec.

I'll be happy to post pics of the build. This is one of my regular site but I usually post my builds on TRF maily because that seems to be the place to do that sort of thing. For this one, though, YORF is probably a better choice...or am I wrong in my perception?

[Mark II]

Yeah, there are things in life that are more important then rockets, or so my wife tells me. :chuckle: I can see how things could get very busy in your job, which must include helping souls in their lifelong preparation before they make another kind of launch at some point in each one's future. I just wanted to say that I like your choice of a new rocket project, and that I will be quite interested in seeing what you build. I have often thought about building some of those old EIRP plans, but so far, the only one that I have done is the Li'l Augie. I haven't flown it yet, though, or even painted it, even though I finished it some months ago. Some others that I would like to build right away include the Sky Bird II, the Arrow C and the PeeWee. I wonder if the PeeWee might have been the inspiration for the Astron Midget?

I have enjoyed reading many of your build threads over on TRF (and your reviews on EMRR, too). But what better place to post a thread describing how you built one of the best examples of Ye Olde Rocket than on Ye Olde Rocketry Forum?! :D

Mark \\.

[JAL3]

Yeah, there are things in life that are more important then rockets, or so my wife tells me. :chuckle: I can see how things could get very busy in your job, which must include helping souls in their lifelong preparation before they make another kind of launch at some point in each one's future. I just wanted to say that I like your choice of a new rocket project, and that I will be quite interested in seeing what you build. I have often thought about building some of those old EIRP plans, but so far, the only one that I have done is the Li'l Augie. I haven't flown it yet, though, or even painted it, even though I finished it some months ago. Some others that I would like to build right away include the Sky Bird II, the Arrow C and the PeeWee. I wonder if the PeeWee might have been the inspiration for the Astron Midget?

I have enjoyed reading many of your build threads over on TRF (and your reviews on EMRR, too). But what better place to post a thread describing how you built one of the best examples of Ye Olde Rocket than on Ye Olde Rocketry Forum?! :D

Mark \\.

OK. Il'll be happy to do it here on YORF as soon as I get to it.

[JAL3]

By the way, I may have mentioned that I am a bit old fashioned...here is a sample of what my bishop has to deal with...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtyWSpVRThg

[JAL3]

I finally got started on the PeeWee. The build thread is here: http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?p=56346#post56346

[LeeR]

John, Mark ...

You guys are making me feel all nostalgic. I just posted a picture elsewhere about my Astron Cobra. Always wanted a Cobra as a kid. I'm doing clustering and staging this year, the clustering in anticipation of building my Semroc Saturn 1B with the cluster option. Haven't flown a cluster in quite awhile.

I grew up in Colorado, and discovered Estes rockets in 1964. Even visited Vern and crew in Penrose in 1966. Those are some of the greatest memories I have of youth. I'll have to post a picture sometime of the typed order we placed at Estes Industries during that trip. We got a WHOLE lotta stuff for $25 (and back then you'd get a free kit on orders over $25)!

[JAL3]

John, Mark ...

You guys are making me feel all nostalgic. I just posted a picture elsewhere about my Astron Cobra. Always wanted a Cobra as a kid. I'm doing clustering and staging this year, the clustering in anticipation of building my Semroc Saturn 1B with the cluster option. Haven't flown a cluster in quite awhile.

I grew up in Colorado, and discovered Estes rockets in 1964. Even visited Vern and crew in Penrose in 1966. Those are some of the greatest memories I have of youth. I'll have to post a picture sometime of the typed order we placed at Estes Industries during that trip. We got a WHOLE lotta stuff for $25 (and back then you'd get a free kit on orders over $25)!

I hope to have some photos for you tomorrow. If all goes well, ITS LAUNCH TIME!!

Coming up real soon on my list is to try both versions for the Flying Why.

JAL

[JAL3]

I hope to have some photos for you tomorrow. If all goes well, ITS LAUNCH TIME!!

Coming up real soon on my list is to try both versions for the Flying Why.

JAL

20mph winds with gusts to 35 resulted in a cancelled launch, lots of frustration and a general wailing and gnashing of teeth.

[rokitflite]

Awww Darn... Even though you have posted no pictures, I fear you have not built the "Pee Wee" I was hoping for :( ... I know the guy who designed the one below... (I do know for a fact though that he used an X-acto knife blade tube for the payload section on the actual model!)

-Scott

[JAL3]

Awww Darn... Even though you have posted no pictures, I fear you have not built the "Pee Wee" I was hoping for :( ... I know the guy who designed the one below... (I do know for a fact though that he used an X-acto knife blade tube for the payload section on the actual model!)

-Scott

I had not seen that. It not the one I built. I have posted pictures but they are on a separate thread here: http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showt...56346#post56346

[Mark II]

This one (http://www.dars.org/jimz/eirp_05.htm), right? (Specifically, the two-stage version).

Mark \\.

[JAL3]

This one (http://www.dars.org/jimz/eirp_05.htm), right? (Specifically, the two-stage version).

Mark \\.

Thats the one.

[rokitflite]

Yeah, I know the one you are talking about... I could tell by the date and I have the plans for the one you're building. I just thought it was funny that I designed one by the same name years later. I guess the humor was missed... Sorry to distract from the thread.

[JAL3]

Yeah, I know the one you are talking about... I could tell by the date and I have the plans for the one you're building. I just thought it was funny that I designed one by the same name years later. I guess the humor was missed... Sorry to distract from the thread.

That went right by me. YOU were the designer?!!!! I just went back and looked at the card again and sho nuff, you are! Congrats!

I don't think there was any distraction. I am always glad to learn more about what has gone before.

BTW, I still have the WUlf and Odessy. I want to do right by them but gliders don't like me and I want to make the O into a showpiece. That means I need more experience.

Guess I have to build some more rockets. Wifey will be thrilled.


I don't suppose you have any of YOUR PeeWees sitting around for sale, do you? :D

[Mark II]

Yeah, I didn't know that was your name, so when I looked at the plan you showed, I didn't make the connection, either. Looks interesting, though - I think I may build it at some point.

Mark \\.

[mojo1986]

Here's my original PeeWee circa 1960 or so. Note the cool striped launch lugs.............yep, they're real drinking straws. This is the modified / lengthened version which used a streamer for recovery.

Joe

[JAL3]

Here's my original PeeWee circa 1960 or so. Note the cool striped launch lugs.............yep, they're real drinking straws. This is the modified / lengthened version which used a streamer for recovery.

Joe

Ithought about that mainly to make it easier to see but, by the time I read that in the instructions, I alread had the tubes.

Its nice to know somebody got one back!

[LeeR]

Here's my original PeeWee circa 1960 or so. Note the cool striped launch lugs.............yep, they're real drinking straws. This is the modified / lengthened version which used a streamer for recovery.

Joe

Gosh, mojo, major flashback. I remember using striped drinking straws too! And that reminds me of the straws with the flavored nuggets in them, so you could have chocolate milk, or strawberry, and maybe other flavors, too. What were those called? (Sorry for the diversion, but you got my mind wandering ...)
:)

[Mark II]

Gosh, mojo, major flashback. I remember using striped drinking straws too! And that reminds me of the straws with the flavored nuggets in them, so you could have chocolate milk, or strawberry, and maybe other flavors, too. What were those called? (Sorry for the diversion, but you got my mind wandering ...)
:)
Oh, YEAH! I remember Flav-R Straws (http://www.tvparty.com/g2c/flavorstraws.ram), too! ("It's so much fun to dip and sip, dip and sip, dip and sip...") Not to be confused with Lik-em-Aid or Pixie Stix.

Mark \\.

[mojo1986]

Oh, YEAH! I remember Flav-R Straws (http://www.tvparty.com/g2c/flavorstraws.ram), too! ("It's so much fun to dip and sip, dip and sip, dip and sip...") Not to be confused with Lik-em-Aid or Pixie Stix.

Mark \\.

Mark and Lee................you guys are showing your age. I'm much too young to remember any of those products! ;)

Joe

[LeeR]

Mark and Lee................you guys are showing your age. I'm much too young to remember any of those products! ;)

Joe

Hahaha .. the joke's in you. We are closer to retirement, so you'll be supporting us.

I take that back, none of us are close to retirement any more ... think I'll start buying Lotto tickets again!

[JAL3]

I take that back, none of us are close to retirement any more ... think I'll start buying Lotto tickets again!


Save a buck: your chances of winning are practically the same if you don't buy a ticket...to many significant figures.

[mojo1986]

Hey, Lee....................I was kidding. I don't remember those products (very well) because they are so far BEHIND me. And I'm already retired! :chuckle:

Joe

[LeeR]

Hey, Lee....................I was kidding. I don't remember those products (very well) because they are so far BEHIND me. And I'm already retired! :chuckle:

Joe

Joe,

I hope you can remain so - just heard about a friend that is going back to work due to retirement funds getting hit so hard. Makes you appreciate what you got, and spend it on the things that matter.. My wife and I are heading to Hawaii in a few months. Time to enjoy things and not be too terribly upset about all the doom and gloom going around.

[barone]

Joe,

I hope you can remain so - just heard about a friend that is going back to work due to retirement funds getting hit so hard. Makes you appreciate what you got, and spend it on the things that matter.. My wife and I are heading to Hawaii in a few months. Time to enjoy things and not be too terribly upset about all the doom and gloom going around.
My poor brother-in-law.....Just retired.....he had his investments set up so he'd be living off the interest and very little principal and make all his bills and still live comfortably. His unemployment runs out next month.....his investments have lost a third of their value and he can't live off just the interest........so now he's looking for a job again....... :( His retirement was sooooooo short.

My investments have lost a third of their value also. The only good thing about it is that I have another 17 years before I retire so that gives the investment a chance to re-coup it's loss....and.....since I buy on a regular schedule, I'm buying more at the lower price. What will suck is if it doesn't go back up. One of my investment funds dropped from $42 a share before 9-11 to $12 a share after 9-11. After seven years, it's back up to $16 after hitting a high of $19 in November.....Yeah....I've bought a lot of it at the lower price but it doesn't make up for the value it lost after 9-11.....

[Mark II]

Mark and Lee................you guys are showing your age. I'm much too young to remember any of those products! ;)

Joe
Yup - and I'm really glad that I was able to experience those times as a kid. It was really the "Golden Age of Kid-dom!" :D

Mark \\.

[LeeR]

Yup - and I'm really glad that I was able to experience those times as a kid. It was really the "Golden Age of Kid-dom!" :D

Mark \\.

Yep, extremely well said, and no doubt the sentiment of a bunch of us that grew up in the 50s and 60s.

No hobby stores carrying Estes products at first. I vividly recall the excitement of running downstairs each morning to see if the postman had dropped off that long slender box. There it was --that box to me from the "Model Rocket Capital of the World".

Riding our bikes "a few blocks" to the vacant fields to launch rockets after school.

Splurging for the B engines instead of the A engines, it was a difference of spending an extra dime (80 cents for a 3-pack, instead of 70 cents) ...

I could go on forever ...
:)