EnerJet Uprated 2650 Sounding Rocket

[snaquin]

I'm a big fan of the early EnerJet Sounding Rockets that included the 1340, 2250 and 2650. The numbers used for the kit descriptions stand for the body diameters, .134, .225 and .265"

I wanted to start a post to hopefully see what other EnerJet fans there are in this forum and hopefully see a few pictures of your projects as well.

Imagine my surprise when Bill posted the link to vote for these at the Semroc site for possible future offerings. Excited, you betcha!

I'll post more later and I'm trying to get permission to post a few images of other EnerJet rockets for this thread.

Also, a big thanks to SEL for the Nike-Ram tips & info as well as the SR1340 data you sent me. Thanks to Phred for scanning my EnerJet logo sheet to produce my decals for my future projects. Your decals rule!

[Green Dragon]

Enerjet fan here ! * raises hand *

will get pics of my 2250 clone this weekend if the weather is nice.

looks about like your 2650, actually ( orange nd black :-) .

one thing I noted was the maiden fligth motors being 3 x AT H35's... realising the H35 is 'only' 170 nsec, ut that thing must have really BOOSTED, being a lightweight vintage copy ?

my USR version (plywood fins,heavy tube,etc) was unreal going up on 3 x G45 or G72's (nice on F100;s too, will see if I have any decent vintage pics o fthat one as well ) .

~ AL

ps: do you have, or is it posted, the plans for the 1340 rocket ?

[snaquin]

I wanted to put some more info out here for the EnerJet 2250 Sounding Rocket. The January 1973 EnerJet News publication had a small write up for the EnerJet 2250. The original had a cluster of (3) 29mm tubes stuffed into a .225 dia airframe tube. The motor tubes had to have wedge shaped slots cut in the forward end of each motor tube to make them fit inside the .225 dia airframe tube.

Al I'd love to see some pics of your 2250 clone! Please post them when you can. Also in another thread "SEL" has a picture of a really nice EnerJet 1340 clone he made with the large payload option. I liked it so much I contacted him and it prompted me to get parts from Semroc to build one. A search for the 1340 is what lead me to discover the forum here!

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=53&highlight=sr1340

SEL also sent me a parts list for this version and I have parts to build one but had to pick up all my rocket stuff to run from Hurricane Katrina. I'll get back on that project soon .....

{Edit: SEL sent me this pic of an EnerJet 1340 with the large payload section as featured in the 4th Ed. Handbook of Model Rocketry and I asked him if I could refer to it in my thread - also attached}. Thanks!

[SEL]

I'm a big fan of the early EnerJet Sounding Rockets that included the 1340, 2250 and 2650. The numbers used for the kit descriptions stand for the body diameters, .134, .225 and .265"

<snip>
Also, a big thanks to SEL for the Nike-Ram tips & info as well as the SR1340 data you sent me. Thanks to Phred for scanning my EnerJet logo sheet to produce my decals for my future projects. Your decals rule!

You're very welcome - I look forward to seeing pics of the finished rocket.
Here's a somewhat fuzzy photo of my North Coast SR2650 Reduced Size on 3D12's.

[rraeford]

This may be old news and if so, I apologize. ARG has several clones of the Enerjet and Mini Max models for sale. They aren't named the same but they are clearly based on these old kits.

http://www.argrockets.com/

Look under Rocket Kits - ARG Rockets - Trident Series

Two versions of the 3 engine cluster 2250. One near actual size and a smaller version.

Look under Rocket Kits - ARG Rockets - Millenium Series

The Sky Probe is basically a Hustler. Others are similar.

rraeford

[snaquin]

You're very welcome - I look forward to seeing pics of the finished rocket.
Here's a somewhat fuzzy photo of my North Coast SR2650 Reduced Size on 3D12's.

Now that's what I'm talking about! I bought several of the original Pre-Estes NCR kits when they were in business but I never got around to the EnerJet replicas. When I finally decided I wanted to order them from NCR they stopped producing those two kits :(

Sean that looks great! Do you still own that one?

[snaquin]

This may be old news and if so, I apologize. ARG has several clones of the Enerjet and Mini Max models for sale. They aren't named the same but they are clearly based on these old kits.

http://www.argrockets.com/

Look under Rocket Kits - ARG Rockets - Trident Series

Two versions of the 3 engine cluster 2250. One near actual size and a smaller version.

Look under Rocket Kits - ARG Rockets - Millenium Series

The Sky Probe is basically a Hustler. Others are similar.

rraeford


rraeford

Thanks for posting the link. Taras with ARG Rocketry sent me a T222-24 from Naram-47. I started a build thread but I haven't gotten very far along with it because I had to pick up everything and bag all my rockets due to the evacuation from Hurricane Katrina just as I was getting started on it. The ARG T222-24 kit contents and info are at this link. I will do a full review for this kit for EMRR.

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=345&highlight=t222-24

Taras gave me permission to post some pictures he sent me of his Trident Cluster Series kits (Some that are not on his website yet) and I will post those to this thread later today or tonight. His kits are great quality and Taras is a pleasure to deal with.

{Edit: Added pictures from ARG Rocketry of Taras @ NARAM-47 with Trident Cluster Series and Black Brant kits and a few from his personal flights of the T222-24 prototype. The large rocket he is holding is the T265-29 and has not yet been released}.

[snaquin]

Ok, I have a difficult question for some of you guys that have been around rocketry a while. What two stage rocket is this in this picture taken from the cover of this EnerJet 2650 brochure #EP-78? The large rocket in the hands of the lecturer and laying on the table have the markings of the EnerJet 2250 but I'm guessing the one in his hands is a 2250 and the one on the table is a 2650. The small rocket on the table has the EnerJet 1340 booster and fin can with a reducer to the upper airframe.

What is the two stage rocket in the foreground supported on the block of wood? I don't remember a Centuri / EnerJet rocket with that fin pattern in particular. Looks like it could be the 2250 for a booster reduced to what smaller rocket?

I know this didn't make it into production but wondered if it was something like the Centuri Saturn 5/X-24 EnerJet powered combination as featured in the EnerJet News No. 1
The print at the bottom of that article says "Hot Flash" Research on an EnerJet booster is underway. We'll keep you posted". There is a link to this EnerJet news on the JimZ site:

http://www.dars.org/jimz/ejn01.htm

.

[SEL]

Now that's what I'm talking about! I bought several of the original Pre-Estes NCR kits when they were in business but I never got around to the EnerJet replicas. When I finally decided I wanted to order them from NCR they stopped producing those two kits :(

Sean that looks great! Do you still own that one?

I do - a little worse for wear, but still flyable (see attached).

I think I'm going to replace the motor tubes, though. They took a beating after dropping in from 800' without a parachute :-)

[SEL]

[QUOTE=SEL]I do - a little worse for wear, but still flyable (see attached).QUOTE]

Ahhhh..... I probably should mention that the picture shows my granddaughter holding the 2650, not me. (I know that some of you are easily confused :-) ).

Sean

[Ltvscout]

I do - a little worse for wear, but still flyable (see attached).
Sean! You shrunk, and had one of those operations! ;)

[Ltvscout]

Ahhhh..... I probably should mention that the picture shows my granddaughter holding the 2650, not me. (I know that some of you are easily confused :-) ).
Who, me? :D

[SEL]

Who, me? :D


Well, I wasn't going to mention any names, but I think you beat Wallyums to the punch :D

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Well, I wasn't going to mention any names, but I think you beat Wallyums to the punch :D

You mean there's more than one of me? That would explain some things.
The Return Of Evil Wally. :eek:

Cute picture, btw. I was joking with my wife that she needs to sleep in one of those zip up sleepers. Her feet were cold last night and it was in the 70's here. :rolleyes:

[SEL]

You mean there's more than one of me? That would explain some things.
The Return Of Evil Wally. :eek:

Cute picture, btw. I was joking with my wife that she needs to sleep in one of those zip up sleepers. Her feet were cold last night and it was in the 70's here. :rolleyes:

Heck, it was in the upper 40's here last night - I may need to get some for myself.

[Green Dragon]

finally got around to puting the Phred decals on my 2250 clone ( thanks Phred :-)

no chrome or black bands yet ( to match the CD plans), but looks good as is.

purists will not that I cheated on the motor mount tubes - no notched 1.22 tubes here - I should mention that three ST10 fit into the 2.34" tube nicely :-)

( hmm.. was it carl mentioned something about centuri parts made to fit together well, :-)

24mm otor mounts in the St10 is,of course obvious, so now sort of like others 'reduced 2650' instead of a true 2250 clone, but works for me .

note mine uses FSI tubes,bulkhead and cone,with AAA model aviation St10 and motor tubes, 3/16" balsa fins, and currently an Estes?NCR 24" chute (soon to be replaced by custom sewn 8 panel silk chute,per Enerjet / early centuri practice :-) .

a nice copy could be made with all Semroc parts, all are listed :-)

~ AL

[SEL]

finally got around to puting the Phred decals on my 2250 clone ( thanks Phred :-)

<snip>

note mine uses FSI tubes,bulkhead and cone,with AAA model aviation St10 and motor tubes, 3/16" balsa fins, and currently an Estes?NCR 24" chute (soon to be replaced by custom sewn 8 panel silk chute,per Enerjet / early centuri practice :-) .

a nice copy could be made with all Semroc parts, all are listed :-)

~ AL

That's a purty one , Al.

Question: Is that a digital green line in the photo, or a lasor in the payload?

Sean

[Green Dragon]

That's a purty one , Al.

Question: Is that a digital green line in the photo, or a lasor in the payload?

Sean

SSShhh... that's top secret !

~ AL

[snaquin]

finally got around to puting the Phred decals on my 2250 clone ( thanks Phred :-)

no chrome or black bands yet ( to match the CD plans), but looks good as is.

purists will not that I cheated on the motor mount tubes - no notched 1.22 tubes here - I should mention that three ST10 fit into the 2.34" tube nicely :-)

( hmm.. was it carl mentioned something about centuri parts made to fit together well, :-)

24mm otor mounts in the St10 is,of course obvious, so now sort of like others 'reduced 2650' instead of a true 2250 clone, but works for me .

note mine uses FSI tubes,bulkhead and cone,with AAA model aviation St10 and motor tubes, 3/16" balsa fins, and currently an Estes?NCR 24" chute (soon to be replaced by custom sewn 8 panel silk chute,per Enerjet / early centuri practice :-) .

a nice copy could be made with all Semroc parts, all are listed :-)

~ AL


Looks really nice Al. Custom silk chute is a nice touch too :)

I have all of the Semroc parts lined up for mine unless I decide to build mine exactly like the plans and wedge cut and stuff in 29mm tubes into the airframe. Not sure if I'll build a true 2250 clone either. Three 24mm F21-8's in simulations sail it to almost 4,000 feet even with a scale hard balsa nose cone so I can lose it just as easily on 24mm motors if I try.

I'm going to build the ARG kit that Taras sent me first and then build one from parts.

Did you use a ring above the motor mount tubes or just stuff the space between the motor mount tubes and the airframe with a filler like glue and tissue?

[Green Dragon]

Looks really nice Al. Custom silk chute is a nice touch too :)

I have all of the Semroc parts lined up for mine unless I decide to build mine exactly like the plans and wedge cut and stuff in 29mm tubes into the airframe. Not sure if I'll build a true 2250 clone either. Three 24mm F21-8's in simulations sail it to almost 4,000 feet even with a scale hard balsa nose cone so I can lose it just as easily on 24mm motors if I try.

I'm going to build the ARG kit that Taras sent me first and then build one from parts.

Did you use a ring above the motor mount tubes or just stuff the space between the motor mount tubes and the airframe with a filler like glue and tissue?

thanks :-)

have fun with the Semroc based version, and I agree, saw no reason to cut the 29mm tubes and fit in, most ppl don;t know that it wasn;t 24mm anyways ( I always throught the p[lan was in error,until much later when AL Andrake noted it was correct, but still built mine 24mm for ease of construction and looks ( hard to fit the 29mm in and make fairings or something to look ok, far as I know the Enerjet version just let em overhang out in the air . ?

as for filling the spaces, on mine I just used the old 'glue soaked towel' trick ,not sure how the original was set up .

Tip - the way I do that is to get some paper towels (any brand),and wad up small pieces,stuffing intot he tubes until filled ok (do NOT soak in glue first ala old Estes kits ).
then after they;re stuffed, soak liberally with thin CA, so it soaks through the whole wad of towel, let dry (shouldn;t take long, lol ) .
then I mix a small batch of 5 minute epoxy and microballoons, and pour in over the tissue.
Tissue provides a seal / 'stopper' for the epoxy, Epoxy makes a nice ,neat finish .

~ AL

PS - and do provide feedback on the ARG kit, never had any of thier stuff, but have met Taras a few times at BRS launches.
always wanted a couple of the Black Brant kits, then his 'balckbrants.com' site went down .
I have the 'new' ARG site marked, but it's very frustrating / hard to navigate as the code or something is 'wierd' , won;t let me sc5roll down,no sidebar 'scroll tab',have to highlight and move, then hard to get back, just a :p pain,least for me ......

[Earl]

Reviving a two year old thread here, but I *think* I have identified the top stage of the two-stage model in the foreground (standing vertical) of this Enerjet pamplet photo (see attached).

This photo was used in several Enerjet product flyers, this one in particular scanned off the 2650 Sound Rocket flyer. Earlier in this thread, the question is raised about the identity of (what appears to be) the two stage vehicle in the foreground on the tabel top. In particular, the TOP stage.

After looking at this in some detail, I believe that top vehicle is a 'clipped' fin Screaming Eagle! That was my first model rocket, so I'm familiar with it (still have it), and I noticed that the decals (from what we can see) match with the narrow band just above the fin unit and the lower part of the upper roll pattern of the Screaming Eagle (can just see the lower part of the upper roll patter in this photo). White body tube is as the standard, unpainted Screaming Eagle bodytube. It appears that, for this two stage model, they have 'clipped' the lower portion of each plastic fin on the Screaming Eagle fin unit, which makes for a very different looking fin (at first glance anyway), but I've taken my original Screaming Eagle 'in hand' and with a scrap piece of paper or such 'masked out' and 'eyeballed' a clip like that and it does seem to match up.

As I understand it, the Screaming Eagle was apparently developed sometime in or around early to mid 1972, because it is 'introduced' in a dealer news newsletter (earliest I've seen anyway) dated around September of 1972. So, the date of this photo ('around' 1972) could match up with the introductory time period of the Screaming Eagle kit, as we came to know it. It was first showed up in the 1973 Centuri catalog, which would have been issued in latter 1972. Obviously, to make the catalog (or the dealer news in September of 1972), it would probably have been in developement for some months at that point, maybe even back to late '71 or very early '72.

Now, I don't know if that upper stage was a 'powered' stage or not (may have been a boosted dart type setup), but that Screaming Eagle was a pretty sturdy design, and that plastic fin unit would have held up pretty well at high speeds. It also would have been 'in keeping' with the plastic fin unit used on the Enerjet 1340 vehicle.

The transition between the booster and the upper stage appears to be a custom machined item, best I can tell.

Anyway, that's my thoughts as to the identity of this upper stage. Any other additional thoughts or guesses out there?


Earl

[snaquin]

After looking at this in some detail, I believe that top vehicle is a 'clipped' fin Screaming Eagle!

Earl

Earl,

Amazing what you turn up when you search EnerJet on YORF :D

You are correct, it is a Centuri Screaming Eagle with the fins clipped. I was able to obtain first hand information from Jerry Irvine concerning this rocket. I posted some of the information in this single post here when I was build/flight testing ARG prototype rockets for Taras:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=9900&postcount=7

The thread starts here:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=726&highlight=prototypes

The two black and white photos in that single post were taken from the 1982 issue of California Rocketry Magazine and featured a scale drawing with a parts list drawn by Jerry Irvine. I don't have permission from Jerry to post the article here so I only cut those two images from the article for comparison to the prototype rocket I was building for Taras.

The transition you mentioned is a Centuri PNC-231 used as a reducer. That model was designed by Larry Brown.

I'd be more than happy to email you the information I now have on this model but I'm reluctant to post the article online without permission. Jerry and I discussed this model during the short lived TIRF forum and that's how I obtained the article.

.

[Ltvscout]

I don't have permission from Jerry to post the article here so I only cut those two images from the article for comparison to the prototype I was building for Taras.

I'd be more than happy to email you the information I now have on this model but I'm reluctant to post the article online without permission. Jerry and I discussed this model during the short lived TIRF forum and that's how I obtained the article.
Steve,

I'm curious. Did you ask Jerry for permission and he denied you permission to post it? If so, let me ask him.

[snaquin]

Steve,

I'm curious. Did you ask Jerry for permission and he denied you permission to post it? If so, let me ask him.

I've never asked his permission. Jerry may not mind I just wasn't sure since it was his publication and he sold that publication at one time through his USR site. It was his drawing.

I don't mind sending him an email asking him if anyone is interested.

.

[Ltvscout]

I've never asked his permission. Jerry may not mind I just wasn't sure since it was his publication and he sold that publication at one time through his USR site. It was his drawing.

I don't mind sending him an email asking him if anyone is interested.
Would you please? That would be great. I never entered into all the JI bashing that went on rmr for so long. I've conversed with JI via email in the past and never had a problem with him.

[Earl]

Earl,

Amazing what you turn up when you search EnerJet on YORF :D

You are correct, it is a Centuri Screaming Eagle with the fins clipped. I was able to obtain first hand information from Jerry Irvine concerning this rocket. I posted some of the information in this single post here when I was build/flight testing ARG prototype rockets for Taras:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=9900&postcount=7

The thread starts here:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=726&highlight=prototypes

The two black and white photos in that single post were taken from the 1982 issue of California Rocketry Magazine and featured a scale drawing with a parts list drawn by Jerry Irvine. I don't have permission from Jerry to post the article here so I only cut those two images from the article for comparison to the prototype rocket I was building for Taras.

The transition you mentioned is a Centuri PNC-231 used as a reducer. That model was designed by Larry Brown.

I'd be more than happy to email you the information I now have on this model but I'm reluctant to post the article online without permission. Jerry and I discussed this model during the short lived TIRF forum and that's how I obtained the article.

.

Steve-

Oh, wow!! Geez, I didn't dream ANYone would have such detailed info about a rocket in a 35+ year old publication!! That's fantastic! Kinda neat to have verification of the photo 'analysis', too (seat-of-the-pants as it was...).

Certainly, I'd love to see the additional Jerry Irvine info on this vehicle! Feel free to shoot it to me at your convenience (or post for all if you get permission from Jerry). Yes, I never had any problems with Jerry myself, but I remember at LDRS-10 (Black Rock in '91), he seemed 'public enemy #1' by a great many people for allegedly 'accepting' orders but not shipping anything (his US Rockets days). I never ordered anything from him back then, but apparently, from the sentiment at LDRS-10, a number of folks had those kind of issues. But, that's been a loooong time ago now, and interpersonally, he was always a sweet, sweet guy.

[snaquin]

Steve-

Oh, wow!! Geez, I didn't dream ANYone would have such detailed info about a rocket in a 35+ year old publication!! That's fantastic! Kinda neat to have verification of the photo 'analysis', too (seat-of-the-pants as it was...).

Certainly, I'd love to see the additional Jerry Irvine info on this vehicle! Feel free to shoot it to me at your convenience (or post for all if you get permission from Jerry). Yes, I never had any problems with Jerry myself, but I remember at LDRS-10 (Black Rock in '91), he seemed 'public enemy #1' by a great many people for allegedly 'accepting' orders but not shipping anything (his US Rockets days). I never ordered anything from him back then, but apparently, from the sentiment at LDRS-10, a number of folks had those kind of issues. But, that's been a loooong time ago now, and interpersonally, he was always a sweet, sweet guy.

I emailed Jerry and he already responded with a quick reply and had no problem with me posting that image here!

.

[Jerry Irvine]

I understand I have been summoned to an Enerjet thread.

If I do not reply timely, please email me, or do so anyway to assure I hear you. I probably have a lot to say on this topic.

I may have to refer to data and physical archives for some answers.

Who else do you know who has dozens of Enerjet G76 casings, an original 2250 an original 2650 and pieces of original 1340's?

Jerry

:D

[Ltvscout]

I understand I have been summoned to an Enerjet thread.

If I do not reply timely, please email me, or do so anyway to assure I hear you. I probably have a lot to say on this topic.

I may have to refer to data and physical archives for some answers.

Who else do you know who has dozens of Enerjet G76 casings, an original 2250 an original 2650 and pieces of original 1340's?
Jerry,

We welcome your HPR knowledge here. Since we're kind of a repository for keeping the history of model rocketry alive, anything you can post about the "old days" of rocketry when you started out would be greatly appreciated.

[Rocketflyer]

Jerry,

We welcome your HPR knowledge here. Since we're kind of a repository for keeping the history of model rocketry alive, anything you can post about the "old days" of rocketry when you started out would be greatly appreciated.

Jerry, I can second that!!

Jack

[Green Dragon]

Jerry .

Welcome tot he forum here.. You'll find some familiar faces here, and friendly, (we hope , lol :D ).


Definately look forward to reading what you recall on the early 'HPR' / Enerjet days ( and early Annaheim / Mile Square Park / Lucerne activities .. maybe you need to revive crm with a historical bent ? )

Of a semi-personal request ( one I;ve been chasing for some time ) , would VERY MUCH appreciate any plans or info you might have on early 80's HPR kits - particularly PIne Cap and Astro Dynamics / XRS / Eagle Aerospace
I had catalogs, info,etc for these, but they disappeared along with our entire 'club library' when our ex-president dropped out of the sport :(

( also looking for ACE California Special plans or general info enough to clone one, the one with the Mini Allegro fins on the sustainer ) .

Again, welcome aboard !

~ AL

[Earl]

I understand I have been summoned to an Enerjet thread.

If I do not reply timely, please email me, or do so anyway to assure I hear you. I probably have a lot to say on this topic.

I may have to refer to data and physical archives for some answers.

Who else do you know who has dozens of Enerjet G76 casings, an original 2250 an original 2650 and pieces of original 1340's?

Jerry

:D

Jerry--

Thanks for dropping in. I 'revived' this existing thread last night by posting an 'analysis' of the 'mystery' two-stage model in the foreground (vertical on table) of this (see attached) vintage Enerjet 'publicity' photo (used in several Enerjet publications back in the day). My analysis was that the upper stage was, in fact, a Centuri Screaming Eagle kit with 'clipped' fins. But that was just my guess by studying the photo and 'eyeballing' my existing vintage Screaming Eagle rocket (my very first model rocket, which I still have).

Steve Naquin kindly responded shortly thereafter that my 'guess' was exactly what that upper stage was, and then referenced an article/plan you had prepared back in 1982 about this very vehicle, which had originally been built by Larry Brown of Enerjet.

So, was this upper stage powered? I assume it was, and if so, can you tell (can you remember; I know it's only been 34 years ago!!) what the upper stage was powered by, was it successfully recovered, etc. I know models like this (after 13 years of attending, flying, and doing video productions of LDRS) are 'small stuff' now, but from a *historical* Enerjet perspective, it'd be interesting to know more details about this vehicle.

Also, one question, on a separate -- but related -- item, is on the 2250 vehicle. When slotting those three motor tubes for insertion into the main body tube (just to get them to fit), did that 'final fit' cause the main body tube (the lower portion of the tube, at least) to take on a triangular shape? Some of the plans drawings and such *seem* to indicate that the body tube would 'tiangulate' after 'stuffing' those three slotted (but still 'oversized') tubes into it, but I am not sure. Any historical clarification you can provide would be nice.

Earl

[snaquin]

I understand I have been summoned to an Enerjet thread.

If I do not reply timely, please email me, or do so anyway to assure I hear you. I probably have a lot to say on this topic.

I may have to refer to data and physical archives for some answers.

Who else do you know who has dozens of Enerjet G76 casings, an original 2250 an original 2650 and pieces of original 1340's?

Jerry

:D

Thanks for checking out the forum Jerry. I appreciate the info you kindly shared with me concerning the early EnerJet sounding rockets. I had saved a few of the pictures you had posted a while back at TIRF of Andrew with an original 2650 bearing a lot of flight wear and tear ..... looking like it saw it's share of clustered G76 flights ;)

One of the things I've never seen addressed about the EnerJet models was who the commercial customers were that were using them and what types of payloads they carried. It's mentioned in the EnerJet News that the 1340 was intended for industrial and commercial applications and that the 1340 was shipped assembled. A magazine ad for the 2650 mentioned university and professional research, and the 2650 brochure mentions many possible applications.

{Is your avatar an image of the HI-TEST 2650?}.

.

[jay]

guys, check out TRF, Art Upton is doing a really great build thread on a 2250 clone.

[snaquin]

guys, check out TRF, Art Upton is doing a really great build thread on a 2250 clone.

I did ..... and then I had a beer ;)

.

[Ltvscout]

I did ..... and then I had a beer ;)
Hehe. Ya, Art sure knows how to build a rocket! :D

[Jerry Irvine]

I will try to address several questions in one post. One of the reasons so many companies have gone out of business, Enerjet included, is that their story was not met with market success. The mere offering of Enerjet commercial products was in fact such a dismal failure even the Enerjet 400 was never made much and the D21 we would all love to have in our collections was not financed by sales of Enerjet E-F motors.

Enerjet had the main problem of 40% of the national market being in their backyard in California, who not only had restrictions on motor imports (no F67, no G76), it also suffered from NAR recalcitrance to accepting motors within the 113g limit which both NAR and FAA shared. NAR all these decades later STILL say a motor has no more than 62.5g!! Retards. Gee, I wonder where the BATFE got THAT? Double probation retards.

How did we get them? The black market of course. Iron Horse Hobbies in Tustin had a "back room" which included Enerjet, Plasmajet and others. Trips to AZ to see Lee helped handle mid-cycle supply lines.

My mommy bought me G76's on a vacation trip. I love my mommy.

Jerry

[Jerry Irvine]

My analysis was that the upper stage was, in fact, a Centuri Screaming Eagle kit with 'clipped' fins.
So, was this upper stage powered?

Also, one question, on a separate -- but related -- item, is on the 2250 vehicle. When slotting those three motor tubes for insertion into the main body tube (just to get them to fit), did that 'final fit' cause the main body tube (the lower portion of the tube, at least) to take on a triangular shape? Some of the plans drawings and such *seem* to indicate that the body tube would 'tiangulate' after 'stuffing' those three slotted (but still 'oversized') tubes into it, but I am not sure. Any historical clarification you can provide would be nice.

Earl

The upper stage was inert, attached, and unpowered. In fact that flight is what inspired me later to "do this stuff right" when I developed "discontinuous staging" and publish a now widely read report (AIR-3) about it.

The 2250 instructions, such as they were, were to simply crush the thick BT-11 equivalent tubes till they fit into the 2.25" OD tube. The crush amount was emmense and resulted in an angular transition from uber-crush to barely-fits. It was frankly a bad design.

It looked COOL and inspired many rockets hence.

Jerry

[Jerry Irvine]

Jerry .

( also looking for ACE California Special plans or general info enough to clone one, the one with the Mini Allegro fins on the sustainer ) .

~ AL

The ACE Rocket Manufacturing "flagship" fin pattern was an arc of a circle with about 15 degrees aspect. Those fins are all circle arcs. If Korey Kline ever responds to his email at k2unit@aol.com he can more accurately refer to the precise angle.

Cloning them thus requires the same tooling as kitting them :(

Jerry

[jay]

Mr. Irvine, I'm not trying to be argumentative and I do respect you, but how do you explain Aerotech's tremendous success?

[lurker01]

Mr. Irvine, I'm not trying to be argumentative and I do respect you, but how do you explain Aerotech's tremendous success?


Jay, just ignore Jerry ... so much of the rocketry community already does ...

Robert

[Jerry Irvine]

Mr. Irvine, I'm not trying to be argumentative and I do respect you, but how do you explain Aerotech's tremendous success?

They are effective at trying to form a virtual monopoly in major market segments. That reduces the overall market as when we had several motor suppliers all selling without the permit imposed by AT on users many years before ATF did. The vendors of AT required an ATF permit per AT policy thus causing fear about whether the non-permitted sales were legal, which they were per 27 CFR 55.141-a-8. There were long threads about this on rmr. (and a little lawsuit)

They do this through a good relationship with the NFPA sport rocket caucus, TRA leadership over the years, etc. To this day I hear every year, year after year, that AT still gets preferential treatment on motor certification timing over several other vendors. One vendor even went almost entirely to CAR to offset this issue.

When AT burned down, nobody was around to pick up the ball for YEARS because so many willing makers were banned, and so many wannabe makers were too small or too delayed in approvals. Tripoli for example had a stated policy of taking their time certifying CTI product to "let Aerotech get back on its feet". CTI happened to be coming to market the very month AT burned. The bubbly J350 issue, etc, etc. They get preferential treatment. That is not merely a whine, a criticism, but a demonstratable fact.

What I don't know is why this spam is in a 2650 thread. Can it be properly spawned elsewhere?

Jerry

[Ltvscout]

Gentlemen,

I prefer that we not stray off course in this thread which has to do with the EnerJet. If folks wish to discuss HPR motors and manufacturers with Jerry, I suggest you start a new thread in the FreeForAll forum. I don't care what goes on there, as long as foul language is not used.