Sunward Gravity Rider

[Green Dragon]

just purchased this it with an order for more 'cloning parts' ,lol .

looking for any advice / comments
( or notes on changes from the Canaroc version, since this is obviously based on same, lol )

has anyone built / flown this thing ?

is it really supossed to just have the one motor assymentrical like that (in the back ), already though about putting in the upper tube, ala the Warlok, or else making a 2 engine cluster.....

~ AL

[Arley Davis]

The Canaroc Scorpion has some thing's different as will, the nose cone is different, and the main body tube is a BT-50 body tube I thank the Galactic Wave is a BT-56. There are 2 plastic body wraps with the scorpion, and the side tubes are placed differently. Another big difference is the Decals.

Check out my web site for a picture of the Scorpion at Arley’s Spaced Out Rocketry.

Here is a image of the plastic parts for the Scorpion. The only diffrence is the Panels are not preformed in the Origonal Kit.

[EchoVictor]

Al,

the Gravity Rider is essentially and upscale of the Canaroc Antares. The major difference (and error) is the use of a BT-56 for the forward section.

The original Antares was two BT-50's side-by-side, with a BT-20 on top and on bottom in the back, and a BT-20 for the forward section.

The Gravity Rider does have the two BT-56's side-by-side, and a BT-50 on top and on bottom. If they wanted to stay true upscale the forward section should be a BT-50. It's not, and I think I know why....

If you look at any Sunward kit, they ALL have the same -56 sized "cockpit" nose cone. Rather than spend the $$$ and tool up for a -50 sized cone, they probably just figured on making the front tube bigger. That's why you've probably got three BT-56 cones of the same shape in your bag, right?

My guess is that they made a few subtle changes so that it couldn't be technically qualified as a copy, thus potentially avoiding any legal issues. I saw the same kinds of small changes when building my Galactic Wave, which is basically an upscale Canaroc Scorpion.

I'm currently giving great consideration to doing a BT-70 sized Starcruiser Warlock, so that it'll match the scale of my Galactic Wave/Scorpion.

Later,
EV

[Green Dragon]

ok, making notes...

according to Arley and EV,it's not an exact clone, which I knew / figured.. still a neat design either way .

if I replace the forward tube with a BT50 section, then it's be more 'correct' ?

.. ok, looking at plans on YORP now,noting also that the original cones had no cockpit detail as well.

so .... change to BT 50 forward tube ( same length ?), and then use generic NC-56 cones ( which I happen to have anyways ). standard long ogive for the BT50 ? (ie: pnc-50Y or similar)

I can paint the design on the wings, I think, original / phred decals won;t work, of course, unless Phred has upscale version available for this ?

I;m still leery of the offcentered motor, but if others have flown em........ * visions of all that work resulting in a pile of rubble flash through my mind *

~ AL

[EchoVictor]

Al,

The main nose cones are parabolic, not long ogive. To get the proper proportions, we'll have to look here;

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/canaroc80/80can24.html

The front nose cone on the Antares is their "PN-100B", with a length-to-width ratio of 3.665 (7.0cm length/1.91cm width). Applying this to the BT-50 diameter of 0.976, we get a length of 3.57in. The closest BMS part number would be the BNC-50Y long ogive at 4.35in length.

The Canaroc parabolic cones used for the main body tubes (2) are their "PN-200A". Doing the math, we get a length/width ratio of 2.44 (6.1cm/2.5cm). Multiply that by the 1.346in OD of the BT-56, and you get a length of 3.28in. BMS or Semroc don't make a standard parabolic cone, so you'd have to special order that shape. The closest in dimension would the Semroc part BC-1331, an elliptical cone at a length of 3.1in.

As for the panels, I would highly suggest the mask/paint method. It's what I did on my Galactic Wave conversion to a Scorpion, and I think it turned out nice.
http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=378&page=3&highlight=scorpion

If the lessons learned from that kit transfer over, then you couldn't use directly upscaled decals anyway. The Galactic Wave wings were upscaled in the root edge length, but the leading edge length was exactly the same as the smaller Scorpion. Thus, a straight upscale decal would be wider than the wing.

I've been talking with Phred about getting the Scorpion decals upscaled, minus the red wing panels. I think you could probably ask for the same thing for the Antares. In fact, I wouldn't mind a set of upscale-minus-wing-panel Antares decals myself. Maybe Phred would be interested in a bulk run.

One thing I asked Phred for on mine, and I would ask for on the Gravity Rider set as well, was to change the name that goes on the one wing. I want to see "Galactic Wave" in the same font that they used for all of the StarFleet kits. I actually found the font here;
http://fonts.lordkyl.net/archives/amun.zip
It's called "American Uncial Normal".

I'm getting this idea in my head lately of building all three Canaroc StarFleet kits as upscales.

That means a BT-70/BT-55 based StarCruiser Warlock! :eek: Yeah!

Later,
EV

[Green Dragon]

ok, checked out the pics, and catalog as well.

thanks fo rinput, not sure how much 'work' I want to do modifying the kit - as you noted in your post if not a clone purist, it's a neat kit :-)

likely, what I'm contmplating at this point is to replace the top tube with a BT50 and cone, then replace the BT56 cones with Estes ?centuri cones ( not much longer than the Sunward cones, so will look like a Gravity Rider with BT50 center,and no 'cockpits'.

should be ok, looks like a neat rocket when done, quite large overall, too.

~ AL

who's now thinking of uses for those left over cones, anything use one close ?

I'm thinking maybe a FoxFire upscale,wouldn't be perfect, but certainly as close or better ( call it "Sunward-ish")

[barone]

likely, what I'm contmplating at this point is to replace the top tube with a BT50 and cone, then replace the BT56 cones with Estes ?centuri cones ( not much longer than the Sunward cones, so will look like a Gravity Rider with BT50 center,and no 'cockpits'.

should be ok, looks like a neat rocket when done, quite large overall, too.



Al,

This is a really easy kit to clone (Antares). If you plan on going with the BT-50s, get with Phred. He and I made a bulk order for the original cones from BMS last year and he may have some left (if not, I'll sell you a couple). Also, he did the decals for me and they look great. Got the first primer coat on mine (splitting time between it and my original Scorpion). If interested, I'll post a pic....

Don
NAR 53455

[Arley Davis]

I agree with barone, Sunward Gravity Rider is a nice rocket in itself way try to change it into the Canaroc Antares by changing the nose cones and some of the body tubes and purchasing the Decals for the Antares. The Canaroc Antares is and easy rocket to clone, I already have the parts to do so. The nose cones can be purchased at BMS as will as everting you need to clone the Antares. And the decals can be purchased from Phred or Tanga Papa. So build the Gravity Rider and clone the Antares from the plans on Ye Old Rocket Shoppe.

Lets face it by the time you buy all the items to change it you would spend about the same money cloning the Canaroc Antares.

Also this rocket can be upscaled easily anyway even to High power and be a true upscale, How about 2-4” tubing to 1-3” tube for the front tube this would be very close to a 4 times upscale, and BMS can still make the nose cones. You could use Loc, Phenolic, or Quantum tubing.

Or a 2” tube such as 2-ST-20 Centuri body tubes to a 1 ½” tube such as the Estes 1-BT-60 tube, and the Antares would be a 2 time upscale. And BMS can make the nose cones as will.

And I know how to upscale a rocket!

[barone]

And I know how to upscale a rocket!

Well I guess you do! :) That's a great looking Andromeda (I used to have one, normal size of course ;) )

Don
NAR 53455

[Arley Davis]

Thank You!

Here is a picture of the Estes Andromeda I built a few years ago.

[Green Dragon]

Well I guess you do! :) That's a great looking Andromeda (I used to have one, normal size of course ;) )

Don
NAR 53455

very cool ! :-)

not sure of you know Drake D (not sure how to spell.lol ) from NEPRA ( PA club I fly with, hosted NSL 2003).

he's an Andromeda fanatic and has one about the same size, I think .

here's a link:

http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/uss_andromeda.htm

also check out the NEPRA site, lot of upscale stuff there,including Cherokee M,Spaceman,etc.

http://www.nepra.com/

~ AL

[barone]

All I can say is WOW! Now that's an upscale......Can't imagine trying to get it to the launch site..... :D

Don
NAR 53455

[barone]

Al,

If you go with the clone, here's a few building tips (well, I guess it would work with the Gravity Rider also).....

Mark the tubes to be cut with a 4 fin pattern guide, running the lines the entire length of the tubes. Then line the seams of the cut pattern with the appropriate lines for even (balanced) cuts. It also provides a reference line for the tubes that are glued side to side.

Also, when gluing the lower (forward) fins together (step six in Gravity Rider plans), I beveled the edges about 45 degree angles so they joined evenly.

The instructions for the clone gave good measurements for fin tip elevations. I think mine turned out perfect. I trust those over the 45 degree angles specified in the Gravity Rider instructions.

If you go with the red nose cones for the BT-50s, obviously, don't glue it in until you've completed your painting.

Make sure you have a long enough shock cord. I am worried about the parachute getting tangled in the forward tube :eek: . I might consider a sling/harness if I have problems with it.

I'm planning on leaving the second BT-50 tube open (friction fit nose cone) just in case I decide to cluster the rocket :rolleyes: . We'll see after I fly single engine and get an idea of how it performs with an off center engine. Good luck. :)

Don
NAR 53455

[EchoVictor]

Don,

I built a Galactic Wave/Scorpion, not a Gravity Rider/Antares.

When I actually do get around to my Antares clone, I have a weird idea for it. I'm going to put the engine in the lower tube in the rear, and double duct the ejection gases through one of the side tubes and up into the front tube. This should address the asymmetrical engine placement issue as well as any potential parachute deployment difficulties.

[barone]

I built a Galactic Wave/Scorpion, not a Gravity Rider/Antares.
Duh....I knew that :rolleyes: (corrected the post) . Still looking forward to some launch pictures.



When I actually do get around to my Antares clone, I have a weird idea for it. I'm going to put the engine in the lower tube in the rear, and double duct the ejection gases through one of the side tubes and up into the front tube. This should address the asymmetrical engine placement issue as well as any potential parachute deployment difficulties.
I thought of ducting the BT-50 into the BT-20 forward tube but opted for the straight clone....okay, my ducting abilities are limited :rolleyes: . Never did a very good job on my Trident either. Mine should be flight worthy this weekend and I'll supply a report on stability. Surely, they wouldn't have kitted a model that didn't fly the way they tell you to build it :eek: .

Don
NAR 53455

[Arley Davis]

Can not wait to see your Antares Barone, and I thank we are cantered sprits, for it seams that way, for we like to build are clones as close to the original as possible. You see I had the Warlock plans a long time but I was not going to make a clone without all the parts or at least clone parts or ones I made to look like the original rocket. And once built no one can tail if it was an original kit or clone. I have some clones and mini original kits and if I took a picture of them together I would bet you could not tail the clones from the original. Except for the ones you already know I have cloned and posted on this Forum. The only one you know was not cloned is my Mars Lander for it has all the Estes body wraps.

As for me if it is not an exact clone or very close why waist my time building it. I am an artiest and I gees that makes me a perfectionist.

Here are more pictures of my upscale Andromeda, and the other one posted on this web site I have seen before and it is a little larger than mine for my rocket was a 3 times upscale with 2.56” tubing to a 3” tubing. But my rocket was built and flew earlier in 1999.

The first picture of my Daughters, 5 upscale Zoom Broom and my 3 upscale Andromeda.

The second picture is the Andromeda flown on a j-350.

[barone]

[QUOTE=Arley Davis]Can not wait to see your Antares Barone[QUOTE]

Arley,

Here's my clone so far. Still needs another coat of primer and then final and decals. Flight worthy now so I'm going to put it up tomorrow when I fly my Scorpion. How about that vintage Canaroc launch pad ;) ? I won't be using it but I thought the Antares would look good on it.....

Don
NAR 53455

[barone]

Well, went out and launched my cloned Antares today. First launch was on a B4-2. Flew surprisingly straight considering the offset engine mount. Probably a couple of hundred feet. No problem with recovery (I used an 18" parachute). It came down nice and slow. Thought there might me a problem with the parachute wrapping the forward tube but had no problems on any of it's three flights (had to make three launches just to get a good lift off shot :rolleyes: ). The second and third flights were on C6-3s. Had some weather cocking but still relatively straight flights. All in all, this is a great flying rocket and on calm days will really float on a 24" parachute. :)

[EchoVictor]

Don,

Great jorb! You get extra-super-double bonus points for launching it off the old Canaroc Trans-A-Pad. Nice touch!!!

Later,
EV

[Arley Davis]

It looks great, can hot wait to see it finished. There are only two thanks I might do differently, for one even though I probably will not fly it, is I will but an 18MM motor mount in both tubes and not in one tube only. The next thing if I can build it is but the Launch lug on the bottom of the bottom tube and then one on the belly of the upper tube so they line up. And then it will look like part of the rocket.

As for the flight I am happy for you and I always wondered how it would fly with the motor offset.

[barone]

Don,

Great jorb! You get extra-super-double bonus points for launching it off the old Canaroc Trans-A-Pad. Nice touch!!!

Later,
EV

Thanks EV.....debated about using that pad but then decided, oh what the hell..... :D



.....I will put an 18MM motor mount in both tubes and not in one tube only



Arley....That's a do-able option. It would really scream on a C6 cluster! ;) And really look great under dual parachute recovery. Probably get away with two 12" chutes....

Don
NAR 53455

[Arley Davis]

Even two B6-4 would scream of the pad, and look cool.

[barone]

Well, the weather she be a changin'......

Couldn't get out to do any painting so thought I'd work on the decals.....Here are some photos of my completed Canaroc Starship Antares clone. Decals are from Excelsior. Phred did a great job and they were really easy to apply.

Don
NAR 53455

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

I got the chance to see a Gravity Rider in action over the weekend. First thing that struck me was its size. Man, this thing is a beast, and a great looking one at that. Second thing that struck me was the single 18mm engine powering it. :confused: I wasn't the only one who thought this was risky, but the guy flying it wanted to build it and fly it as Sunward suggested for the sake of review. Gutsy.
The Gravity Rider is a great looking bird, but it begs to have the power upgraded to either a 2x18mm cluster or a 24mm single. It flew in a light breeze on a C6-3 and looked to be in trouble from the start. It was slow off the rod, then spent a few seconds wiggling around before arcing over at a height the short side of fifty feet. Luckily it stayed horizontal throughout the coast phase and recovered on the other side of the access road. (Something I've never had much luck in doing.) No damage, but I think this will be the only flight on a single 18mm motor. I can't even imagine what a B4-2 flight might have been like.

[snaquin]

Well, the weather she be a changin'......

Couldn't get out to do any painting so thought I'd work on the decals.....Here are some photos of my completed Canaroc Starship Antares clone. Decals are from Excelsior. Phred did a great job and they were really easy to apply.

Don
NAR 53455

Don that looks great. Really nice!