Centuri Photo

[tbzep]

I rediscovered this photo in the 1977 Centuri Rocket Times. They have a liftoff shot of their Centuri Saturn V. However, on the racks behind it are at least four Estes Citation Patriots. :p

I know they were both owned by Damon at this time, but they did still compete at that point. I'm not sure if that was a decision based on them counting on people not noticing, or if they didn't mind letting people see the friendly competition.

Scroll to the bottom of the newsletter. (http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/centuriRT77SpringSummer/77SpringSummercenRT8.html)

:cool:

[Mark II]

I rediscovered this photo in the 1977 Centuri Rocket Times. They have a liftoff shot of their Centuri Saturn V. However, on the racks behind it are at least four Estes Citation Patriots. :p

I know they were both owned by Damon at this time, but they did still compete at that point. I'm not sure if that was a decision based on them counting on people not noticing, or if they didn't mind letting people see the friendly competition.

Scroll to the bottom of the newsletter. (http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/centuriRT77SpringSummer/77SpringSummercenRT8.html)

:cool:
Are you sure those aren't early versions of the Spirit of America (http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/centuri81/81cen12.html) (#5344)? (Hard to tell in the photo.)

Mark \\.

[CPMcGraw]

I rediscovered this photo in the 1977 Centuri Rocket Times. They have a liftoff shot of their Centuri Saturn V. However, on the racks behind it are at least four Estes Citation Patriots. :p

I know they were both owned by Damon at this time, but they did still compete at that point. I'm not sure if that was a decision based on them counting on people not noticing, or if they didn't mind letting people see the friendly competition.

Scroll to the bottom of the newsletter. (http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/centuriRT77SpringSummer/77SpringSummercenRT8.html)

:cool:

Not to mention an Estes #1272 Vostok on the far pad...

[Royatl]

Are you sure those aren't early versions of the Spirit of America (http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/centuri81/81cen12.html) (#5344)? (Hard to tell in the photo.)

Mark \\.

No, those are very definitely Citation Patriots. Very distinctive.

[lurker01]

Are you sure those aren't early versions of the Spirit of America (http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/centuri81/81cen12.html) (#5344)? (Hard to tell in the photo.)

Mark \\.

Mark,

What resolution are you viewing the picture at?! Those ARE Patriots.

Estes and Centuri were advertiesed as competing commercial entities into the early 1980s.

I remember receiving Estes coupons and promotions for Centuri closeout items. If you scan the ninfinger site, and look at the seasonal Estes catalogs of the time, you will see Centuri kits being offered.

IIRC, Estes is now a brand name that is offered under the corporate entity of the, 'Centuri Corporation'; has to do with taxes. I believe the company is incorporated in Arizona. I would have chosen Nevada as there is no state income tax for corporations :) At least 2 of the 48 states of America 'get it' :)

Anyhow, if you want more detailed information behind the corporate entities such as Estes, Centuri , Damon, then please steer your browser to this link:

http://www.answers.com/topic/centuri-1

Hope this information has answered your question(s).

Bob

[tbzep]

Are you sure those aren't early versions of the Spirit of America (http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/centuri81/81cen12.html) (#5344)? (Hard to tell in the photo.)

Mark \\.

I'm sure. For once in my life I actually looked very closely before I shot off my mouth. :D

[Chas Russell]

That was a demo launch I beleive in Alamogordo, New Mexico. It was probably sponsored by a local club. Tom Beach might have been involved. Anyway, back in those days, Estes and Centturi would donate kits to clubs or sections to be built and used in the demo launches. I even took part in the mid-'70s in building kits to send back to Estes so that they could send the built models out. Ever desire to build ten of the large R2-D2 kits? Usually they then provided you with gift certificates.
This would explain the mix of kits from the manufacturers. Plus, I am sure someone sent them the picture, as opposed to them talking one featuring just their products.

Chas

[jdbectec]

Mark,

What resolution are you viewing the picture at?! Those ARE Patriots.

Estes and Centuri were advertiesed as competing commercial entities into the early 1980s.

I remember receiving Estes coupons and promotions for Centuri closeout items. If you scan the ninfinger site, and look at the seasonal Estes catalogs of the time, you will see Centuri kits being offered.

IIRC, Estes is now a brand name that is offered under the corporate entity of the, 'Centuri Corporation'; has to do with taxes. I believe the company is incorporated in Arizona. I would have chosen Nevada as there is no state income tax for corporations :) At least 2 of the 48 states of America 'get it' :)

Anyhow, if you want more detailed information behind the corporate entities such as Estes, Centuri , Damon, then please steer your browser to this link:

http://www.answers.com/topic/centuri-1

Hope this information has answered your question(s).

Bob


I've done a google search on the lawsuit mentioned in the above link, and can't find any details on it. It is quoted in several other cases.

Does anyone know any details on it?

Just curious.

[luke strawwalker]

I rediscovered this photo in the 1977 Centuri Rocket Times. They have a liftoff shot of their Centuri Saturn V. However, on the racks behind it are at least four Estes Citation Patriots. :p

I know they were both owned by Damon at this time, but they did still compete at that point. I'm not sure if that was a decision based on them counting on people not noticing, or if they didn't mind letting people see the friendly competition.

Scroll to the bottom of the newsletter. (http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/centuriRT77SpringSummer/77SpringSummercenRT8.html)

:cool:

That picture is from the rocket launch at the opening of the "Space Hall of Fame" in Alamogordo, NM in 1977. G. Harry Stine among other notables was there and Centuri and Estes collaborated on a commemorative celebration rocket launch as part of the festivities... Hence Centuri and Estes rockets on the same launcher.

That is a VERY cool place by the way... I went about 4 1/2 years ago or so... I'd never been to Alamogordo before and it's a BEAUTIFUL place... I love it there, and at Cloudcroft overlooking the city on the edge of the Tularosa Basin. Betty and I toured the Space Hall of Fame, and went to a presentation on the shuttle being given by an older gentleman. He showed our small group a shuttle tile, asking us to be careful with it due to their EXTREMELY fragile nature... this one was dinged and dented from fingernails and kids dropping it and all... they're about the consistency and texture of that freeze dried 'astronaut ice cream' you can get at the space center visitor shops. VERY soft brittle stuff. We chatted awhile afterwards and all the other folks drifted off on their self-guided tours of the displays, and we started talking about the space program more in-depth. Turns out the fellow, who despite being in his 70's was still in EXCELLENT shape, was a former Navy frogman who was actually part of the recovery forces for part of Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo... He ticked off a bunch of the flights that he recovered... I can't remember them all now but I remember he was on the recovery of Apollo 13. We talked about that stuff awhile, and about other stuff, and he mentioned Joe Kittinger (from Project Manhigh, which preceded Mercury and still holds the record as the highest parachute jump of all time) had been there at the museum a week or two before... and that he knew Joe for a long time... What cracked me up was a comment he made then-- "Geez Joe sure let himself go!" That kind of cracked me up, because here are guys in their mid to late 70's at the time, and still concerned about their fitness levels... But I guess once you've gone through that level of achievement and maintaining your physical fitness to perform your duties, it's second nature... Too bad I don't have that problem! :rolleyes:

Anyway, there is SO much cool stuff to see there, inside and outside. I enjoyed the rocket garden there and the old V-2 engines and rusty tailfin sections sitting out there, recovered from the White Sands Missile Range from the old V-2 tests after the war. VERY cool stuff! If you ever go, be sure to go out to White Sands National Monument and roam around the dunes, THAT is pretty cool, and drive over to WSMR visitor center/museum and rocket garden there, THAT place is way cool too. Also, just north of Alamogordo at Carrizzozo be sure you take the walking tour of the Malpais lava beds-- that's a neat thing! I've actually seen them from footage taken from a rocket mounted movie camera, probably a V-2, launched from White Sands. The black lava fields on the white/tan desert below stick out like a cockroach on a white carpet! Also, twice a year, they offer a tour of Trinity Site on the north end of WSMR, the place where the world's first atomic bomb was exploded in July of 1945. VERY cool stuff, though we missed the tour by a few weeks. The tours are conducted through the National Atomic Museum in Albuquerque. I highly recommend that too! I spent all day in there! Betty enjoyed the Smokey the Bear museum in (can't remember the little town's name at the moment-- it was pretty cool:) Also, you can visit three other nuclear weapons related sites in New Mexico, one where a 36,000 pound hydrogen bomb dropped out of a B-36 near Albuqueque and exploded (no detonation) and killed a cow, and two "peaceful atom" Project Plowshare underground nuclear detonations-- Project Gasbuggy gas well fracturing test up north of Shiprock, and the other was Project Gnome, a relatively shallow nuclear detonation in a salt dome down near Carlsbad Caverns in the SE corner of the state. You can see the actual detonations in the DVD "Journey to Ground Zero" from the Nat'l Atomic Museum gift shop or online.

VERY cool stuff for rocket/techno geeks... :) OL JR :)

[jadebox]

I've done a google search on the lawsuit mentioned in the above link, and can't find any details on it. It is quoted in several other cases.

Does anyone know any details on it?


Some information on the lawsuits is at:

http://www.payloadbay.com/article-toybiz-inc.html

The references you find on the 'net are mostly about the counter-case filed by Toy Biz in New York. Most of the references seem to have to do with how the court decides jurisdiction when two companies, located in different regions of the country, are involved.

-- Roger

[shockwaveriderz]

I've done a google search on the lawsuit mentioned in the above link, and can't find any details on it. It is quoted in several other cases.

Does anyone know any details on it?

Just curious.


1st of all, this answers.com response was taken from a business intelligence website, so its not only old, it incorrect as Estes today is known as Estes-Cox Corp.

2ndly, as far as the lawsuit is concerned, ToyBiz sued the then Centuri Corporation for " for antitrust violations, copyright infringement, trademark infringement and unfair competition. In its complaint, Toy Biz alleges that Centuri committed a number of illegal acts to eliminate Toy Biz as a competitor in the small hobby flying
model rocket market. Toy Biz also alleges that Centuri is using Toy Biz's "READY TO FLY"(1) trademark on its rockets and has copied Toy Biz's copyrighted artwork.

Prior to commencing this action, on August 8, 1997, Toy Biz had filed an identical action against Centuri in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania, which action has been voluntarily dismissed.(2)

On September 18, 1997, after Toy Biz filed this action, Centuri commenced a patent infringement and tortious interference with contract action against Toy Biz in the District of Colorado (the "Colorado action") captioned Centuri Corp. v. Toy Biz, Inc., C.A. No. 97-S-2020. In the Colorado action, Centuri claims that Toy Biz's Quest Aerospace model rockets allegedly infringe patents held by Centuri and that Toy Biz tortiously interfered with Centuri's contract with its engine tube supplier. Toy Biz asserted counterclaims in the Colorado action that are the same as the claims it brought in the New York action.


Both cases involve the sale of certain small hobby model flying rockets. Indeed, Centuri recognized this when it stated in its Memorandum of Law in Support of its Motion to Transfer that both actions "involve the same witnesses and parties and arise out of the manufacturing and distribution of Centuri's `Goldstrike' model rockets and Toy Biz's Quest Aerospace model rockets."


Notes:
1. Plaintiff's "READY TO FLY" trademark was rejected by the United States Patent and Trademark Office, although this matter is not final and is still pending.

2.2. On August 29, 1997, the same day that Toy Biz filed this lawsuit, Centuri answered and moved to transfer the Pennsylvania lawsuit to the District of Colorado. Toy Biz then cross-moved to dismiss the Pennsylvania case without prejudice. Toy Biz's cross-motion was granted on October 2, 1997.

terry dean

[tbzep]

Notes:
1. Plaintiff's "READY TO FLY" trademark was rejected by the United States Patent and Trademark Office, although this matter is not final and is still pending.



Almost all the R/C airplane manufactures and distributors use "Ready to Fly" and RTF designations. I don't see them getting anywhere with it, especially after it already being rejected once. Never can tell, though.

[Mark II]

Mark,

What resolution are you viewing the picture at?! Those ARE Patriots.

Estes and Centuri were advertiesed as competing commercial entities into the early 1980s.

I remember receiving Estes coupons and promotions for Centuri closeout items. If you scan the ninfinger site, and look at the seasonal Estes catalogs of the time, you will see Centuri kits being offered.

IIRC, Estes is now a brand name that is offered under the corporate entity of the, 'Centuri Corporation'; has to do with taxes. I believe the company is incorporated in Arizona. I would have chosen Nevada as there is no state income tax for corporations :) At least 2 of the 48 states of America 'get it' :)

Anyhow, if you want more detailed information behind the corporate entities such as Estes, Centuri , Damon, then please steer your browser to this link:

http://www.answers.com/topic/centuri-1

Hope this information has answered your question(s).

Bob
I guess that I must have touched a raw nerve there.

An innocent question, and an honest mistake. Sorry that I so ruined your day.

Mark \\.