So who is/was the most eccentric rocket designer/manufacturer?

[lurker01]

Group,

I happened to bring up this discussion with a fellow rocketeer a few weekends ago, and we discussed which model rocket designers where crazy yet create some very amazing designs.

One guy we both knew would epoxy 3-4 D12s together to make one mega F. Without naming names, does anyone come to mind that really stands out as cRazY in your current or past rocketry experiences.

Oh, the way he would make the F would be D12-0 glued to D12-0 reversed glued to a D12-0 glued to a D12-0 reversed, glued to a C6-7 shoved/glued down into the reversed nozzle end of the reversed D12-0. And yes, I find this to be crazy model rocketry behavior!

Bob

[Initiator001]

Korey Kline/ Ace Rocketry.

He came up with some really wild stuff which I was lucky enough to see him fly at Lucerne launches in the late 80s/early 90s.

The neat thing about what Korey designed was that most of it worked. :D

One fin/no fin rockets, 'I' powered monocopter, R/C controlled rockets (Not gliders).

Korey is credited by many to have produced the first 'effects' hobby rocket motors.

Very creative fellow.


Bob

[Der Red Max]

...D12-0 glued to D12-0 reversed glued to a D12-0 glued to a D12-0 reversed, glued to a C6-7 shoved/glued down into the reversed nozzle end of the reversed D12-0
Huh????????:confused::chuckle:

[lurker01]

Huh????????:confused::chuckle:


DRM,

The guy would epoxy/glass motors in series (not as a cluster) and try to make even bigger (longer) motors out of small motors.

Of course what he was doing would void the manufactures warranty, and go against NAR rules!


Bob

[lurker01]

Korey Kline/ Ace Rocketry.

He came up with some really wild stuff which I was lucky enough to see him fly at Lucerne launches in the late 80s/early 90s.

The neat thing about what Korey designed was that most of it worked. :D

One fin/no fin rockets, 'I' powered monocopter, R/C controlled rockets (Not gliders).

Korey is credited by many to have produced the first 'effects' hobby rocket motors.

Very creative fellow.


Bob

Bob,

I was also over at Korey's house in San Gabriel Valley back in the 80s (IIRC; one of the fog filed valleys around L.A.) and he showed me a radio controlled rocket patterned after a Sparrow Missile. The forward fins were connected to servos.

Is Korey still alive? Haven't seen or heard of him in years. Last thing I heard he had done was to fly a hybrid out of Wallops to 106K.

All those pioneers. To bad they are gone now. Two of them I know of who were dynamos in the early history of HPR are now dead; one of stroke and the other of cancer.

And where is Bruce Kelley? He was a main factor in the creation of TRA.

So many wrecks along the side of the road in our journey to personal space flight ...

Bob

[stefanj]

Well, there was Lazlo Carpioni, whose designs were so shocking and bizarre that his employer, Guillows, eventually withdrew all the kits, hunted down and destroyed all the marketing materials, and shut down their nascent rocketry division.

[Royatl]

Well, there was Lazlo Carpioni, whose designs were so shocking and bizarre that his employer, Guillows, eventually withdrew all the kits, hunted down and destroyed all the marketing materials, and shut down their nascent rocketry division.

Say what???!

[Der Red Max]

The guy would epoxy/glass motors in series (not as a cluster)...
That part I get, but what model could he fit this "thing" into?
Any pictures that you know of?
Or was it used for static testing?

... and go against NAR rules!
Now why do you suppose that would be? :chuckle:

[lurker01]

That part I get, but what model could he fit this "thing" into?
Any pictures that you know of?
Or was it used for static testing?


Now why do you suppose that would be? :chuckle:

I have one of his glued together contraptions that is still unfired and made up of Estes D13 motors. When I find it, I will post a picture. He lived in Maryland. With the type of motors, age, and violating sanity checks, i consider the arrangement to be a stick of potential dynamite and would NEVER think to place it in anything I would expect to fly.


Bob

[Bob Kaplow]

Of the folks I've met, I'd say Rob Edmonds.

I don't think I ever met Shrox...

[georgegassaway]

The guy would epoxy/glass motors in series (not as a cluster) and try to make even bigger (longer) motors out of small motors.

Of course what he was doing would void the manufactures warranty, and go against NAR rules!

Tandem type engines. The simplest to understand would be to epoxy an A3-4T inside of a C6-0, to get a wimpy D.

In the case of D12’s, those were end-to-end D12’s, the lower would be a D12-0 and the upper a D12 with a time delay, to get a 35-38 N-sec “E12”. When I saw him doing some of these at NARAM-19 in 1977, I think he used a short length of BT-50 across the joint for some added reinforcement. Maybe he later added fiberglass, I just remembered the BT-50 collars.

Around 1978, Estes informed the NAR that they considered tandem engines to be a modification of the engines, so the NAR could no longer allow them under the Safety Code.

There were also some practical issues. The D12 to D12, or C6 to C6 type tandems often had burn thrus of the sides of the casings, just above the nozzle of the lower motor. It was due to the burning/erosion of the paper casing inside, being exposed to at the least was twice the normal burn time, and the casing were not designed for that. Also, I do not remember anyone removing nozzles from the upper engines (which definitely would be an illegal mod), so the erosion was made even worse by the upper engine “spraying” its exhaust plume down inside of the lower casing. The erosion would have been significantly reduced if the nozzles had been removed, but the erosion problem probably not eliminated since paper casings can only handle so much (some of the AVI E11.8 and D6.1 engines had that issue). Now, a tandem of an A inside of a C6-0 did not have this burn-thru problem, maybe a mini-B3 in a C6-0 might have.

But there were some occasional burn-thrus when using a C6 epoxies inside of a D12-0. For some of my R/C R/G’s, where I needed to do some practice boosting with more power than a D12, but could not afford to fly E6’s that much, I did some D12/C6 tandems. And every once in awhile, one would burn thru just above the D12 nozzle. Of course this was not a very efficient way to use them either, the D12 nozzle throat was a lot larger than a C6 so there was a significant thrust performance downgrade. Possibly the C6 only add a B’s worth of extra power when burning thru the D12-0. Maybe say like going from a D12 to a B4? But for the R/C boosts it was OK since it was another 1.5 seconds of some thrust for the boost practice, for a total burn time of about 3 seconds from liftoff to burnout Fortunately, Aerotech came out with E6 reloads, and D7 reloads, whose cost per flight (and thrust curves) totally eliminated the reasons to mess around with D12/C6 tandems for R/C boost practice.

- George Gassaway

[Doug Sams]

Of the folks I've met, I'd say Rob Edmonds. In what way, Bob? I only met him once, at the 2003 NARAM in Evansville, and was mightily impressed. He flew in, in his own plane, having come from the big fly-in at Oshkosh. As I recall, he was headed back that way, too. He struck me as being a really neat, accomplished guy, a real go-getter. But I only talked to him for a few minutes in the hotel lobby, so I didn't get to really know him. Nevertheless, I'm in awe of his many accomplishments.

I don't think I ever met Shrox...I met him at the NARCON in Austin in 2002, IIRC. He struck me as a very sharp guy. Maybe wound a tad tight, but so am I, along with most of the rocketeers I know http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


Doug

.

[Bob Kaplow]

In what way, Bob? I only met him once, at the 2003 NARAM in Evansville, and was mightily impressed. He flew in, in his own plane, having come from the big fly-in at Oshkosh. As I recall, he was headed back that way, too. He struck me as being a really neat, accomplished guy, a real go-getter. But I only talked to him for a few minutes in the hotel lobby, so I didn't get to really know him. Nevertheless, I'm in awe of his many accomplishments.

Have you ever been to one of his manufacturer forum sessions? :chuckle:

[Royatl]

Have you ever been to one of his manufacturer forum sessions? :chuckle:

Or one of the Imagination Celebrations! They're both quite enjoyable!

[tbzep]

Korey Kline/ Ace Rocketry.

He came up with some really wild stuff which I was lucky enough to see him fly at Lucerne launches in the late 80s/early 90s.




Ace Rockets was the first HPR company. He's famous for the first consumer hybrid company, Hypertek. I think I remember pics of him warming his hands to a burning motor in some Tripolitan ads back in the late 80's/early 90's. Seems like it was a Plasmajet ad. BTW, his "real" profession was/is r&d engineer in the explosives ordinance industry.

[shrox]

I met him at the NARCON in Austin in 2002, IIRC. He struck me as a very sharp guy. Maybe wound a tad tight, but so am I, along with most of the rocketeers I know http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


Doug

.

I might have been a little nervous, sudden fame and all...

[Doug Sams]

I might have been a little nervous, sudden fame and all...Shrox,

You're digging thru threads that are way too old :)

Seriously, glad to have you here. I look forward to seeing the new stuff you come up with. BTW, where are you? UK?

Let me add a challenge - you need to design a 2-stage or 3-stage shrocket :D

Doug

.

[shrox]

How about a 24 stage rocket with one hour duration motors?

[Doug Sams]

How about a 24 stage rocket with one hour duration motors?That's not a shrocket - it's a clocket :D

Doug

.

[Mark II]

Just about everyone who I have ever met in rocketry is a bit askew in one way or another. Whenever you become a dedicated hobbyist in any field, it takes you out of the mainstream, and that is especially true of rocketry, which is very non-mainstream. Perhaps it could even be more true if you take it to the level of designing and producing your own line of rockets. Every manufacturer that I have met so far, though, has seemed to really have his or her head on straight. I could say that each one was very "grounded," but that would be the wrong word to use here. I'm sure that you get the idea, though. The process of starting a business and keeping it up as a going concern keeps the owners very much in touch with reality, I guess. ;) I haven't met all that many in person yet, so I might have to modify that assessment in the future. :rolleyes: I have corresponded with quite a few more online, and although I am reluctant to draw any firm conclusions from that, my online experience so far has been consistent with my real life one.

Some people (actually, quite a few, now that I think of it :o ) think that I'M more than a little bit weird and off-base, but I am neither a designer nor a manufacturer. :chuckle:

MarkII

[Nuke Rocketeer]

Bob,

I was also over at Korey's house in San Gabriel Valley back in the 80s (IIRC; one of the fog filed valleys around L.A.) and he showed me a radio controlled rocket patterned after a Sparrow Missile. The forward fins were connected to servos.

Is Korey still alive? Haven't seen or heard of him in years. Last thing I heard he had done was to fly a hybrid out of Wallops to 106K.

All those pioneers. To bad they are gone now. Two of them I know of who were dynamos in the early history of HPR are now dead; one of stroke and the other of cancer.

And where is Bruce Kelley? He was a main factor in the creation of TRA.

So many wrecks along the side of the road in our journey to personal space flight ...

Bob

He's still alive

http://www.syntheon.com/koreybio.htm

[Rocketcrab]

Well, there was Lazlo Carpioni, whose designs were so shocking and bizarre that his employer, Guillows, eventually withdrew all the kits, hunted down and destroyed all the marketing materials, and shut down their nascent rocketry division.


Let's explore this one a bit......are you serious? I've never heard of Guillows entering the model rocketry market.

[Phred]

My interest was peaked by this as well. When was Guillows in the mod roc business?

[Jerry Irvine]

My interest was peaked by this as well. When was Guillows in the mod roc business?

He said nascent rocketry business. It never happened to consumers.

Jerry

[Phred]

But there must be a story there....