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comet79
03-15-2009, 08:20 AM
I'm looking for the Estes Gemini Titan #1978. Thanks in advance!

jetlag
03-15-2009, 10:49 AM
A Pre-Damon example is up for auction on Ebay right now, but will end in about 3 hours. Be prepared to spend $150 to $200 or more for it, though!

I realize the one you are looking for is the 'modernized' Estes version from the '80's that is shorter and has plastic display nozzles, but the original design was so much more fun to build (K-21)!


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200319562594

comet79
03-15-2009, 12:16 PM
Thanks for the hint! I would like to have this K-21 version, too... :) But it's already too expensive for me ($207 some minutes ago). Please let me know if anybody wants to sell a Estes #1978 (or K-21)!

dwmzmm
03-15-2009, 12:27 PM
Thanks for the hint! I would like to have this K-21 version, too... :) But it's already too expensive for me ($207 some minutes ago). Please let me know if anybody wants to sell a Estes #1978 (or K-21)!

You could probably build your own K-21 model by getting the parts needed from SEMROC (or
even BMS) and printing out the instructions from either JimZ or YOR Plans; maybe even cheaper going that route than buying the K-21 on e-bay. Decals can be ordered from Tango
Papa (unless you can make your own).

I was "lucky" enough to buy the PDRocketry kit before they went under, and it's one of my
favorite......

comet79
03-15-2009, 05:38 PM
You could probably build your own K-21 model by getting the parts needed from SEMROC (or
even BMS) and printing out the instructions from either JimZ or YOR Plans; maybe even cheaper going that route than buying the K-21 on e-bay. Decals can be ordered from Tango
Papa (unless you can make your own).

I was "lucky" enough to buy the PDRocketry kit before they went under, and it's one of my
favorite......

Great pictures and great model, Dave!
The K-21 was sold for $257 today. So it's definitely cheaper to clone this thing...

jetlag
03-15-2009, 09:04 PM
Great pictures and great model, Dave!
The K-21 was sold for $257 today. So it's definitely cheaper to clone this thing...

Agreed. Geez, $257 to sit on a shelf or in a bin somewhere. I built the Damon one with the yellow header back in the day. Thats a lot of green for nostalgia! I hope they are happy! I know I would be. If I'd have that kind of spare cash, I 'd have bid on it, for sure!
However, if all you want to do is experience the build of an Estes K-21 GT-3 and fly it, cloning is the way to go.
Cloning the K-21 is 'easy' compared to the later one you want, though. Unless you had the removable plastic nozzles, of course! Havn't looked, but I inagine you could get a balsa replacement for the nose cone.
Call or email Carl at Semroc; they'll set you up with most everything you need to clone the original for around $25 to $30. Thats around what the PDR kit sold for, I think. It's a much more handsome model when you're done.
Allen

MarkB.
03-16-2009, 07:39 PM
Actually,

The guys at BMS have a balsa clone cone. Sirius Rocketry has a blow-molded version. Yes, a clone of a Gemini is in my future as is a MOL and a DynaSoar possibly on a back-dated Semroc Saturn I Block II with extended fins.

Luckily, my wife usually reels in these daydream projects . . . .

blackshire
03-17-2009, 07:41 AM
Agreed. Geez, $257 to sit on a shelf or in a bin somewhere. I built the Damon one with the yellow header back in the day. Thats a lot of green for nostalgia! I hope they are happy! I know I would be. If I'd have that kind of spare cash, I 'd have bid on it, for sure!
However, if all you want to do is experience the build of an Estes K-21 GT-3 and fly it, cloning is the way to go.
Cloning the K-21 is 'easy' compared to the later one you want, though. Unless you had the removable plastic nozzles, of course! Havn't looked, but I inagine you could get a balsa replacement for the nose cone.
Call or email Carl at Semroc; they'll set you up with most everything you need to clone the original for around $25 to $30. Thats around what the PDR kit sold for, I think. It's a much more handsome model when you're done.
Allen

Another good feature of the older K-21 Gemini-Titan II kit was/is that with its inward-canted motor mount tubes, it could (usually) fly straight enough and high enough to land safely after an "engine out" lift-off, especially with "C" motors.

jpaw33
03-18-2009, 06:11 PM
If I was to clone this kit,what would I do about the fins.How do they stay on during flight but still are removable? Does anyone sell 60/70 rings also 20/70 or 20/60 for the parachute and stuffer tube?My last question is what about the canted engine mount tubes,custom make or buy somewhere????Sorry about all the questions I always build stock kits and have never done a clone/scratch build so I'm alittle out of my element.Thanks John

barone
03-18-2009, 06:26 PM
Well....here's a good place to start....you can get a lot of the stuff here.....

http://www.semroc.com/Store/scripts/ClassicParts.asp?ID=23

jpaw33
03-18-2009, 06:43 PM
I talked to the folks at semroc and will be getting all the parts they have for that clone but the ring set and engine mount I will need some suggestions.

jetlag
03-19-2009, 04:41 AM
I talked to the folks at semroc and will be getting all the parts they have for that clone but the ring set and engine mount I will need some suggestions.

I believe Sunward and Cygnus have the mounts. Try here..........


http://www.sunward1.com/mounting.htm

and

http://www.unclemikesrocketshack.com/Motor_Mounts_Accs/Cygnus_Motor_Mounts.html



You will need the one for a BT-70 body tube.
Allen

kurtschachner
03-19-2009, 09:10 AM
Here's more information about building a clone of the old Estes kit:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=494&page=1&pp=10

lots of good stuff there even if it is pretty old. You'll also find a build report I did on my clone, including a direct link to the patterns and decals that are posted on this site:

http://www.rocketshoppe.com/decals/Gemini_Titan.pdf

Also a lot of detail on other's models, better than I did and nicer than the original kit.

dwmzmm
03-19-2009, 03:30 PM
I talked to the folks at semroc and will be getting all the parts they have for that clone but the ring set and engine mount I will need some suggestions.

The ring set and engine mount should be available from BMS; at least, the way the parts that came with my PDRocketry kit, they sure looked like BMS product.

jpaw33
03-19-2009, 03:47 PM
Thanks guys all the info is great.I'll be going to NARCON since it is only 30 mins away and I'll ask the BMS guys if they are there.If any one needs info on where to eat let me know since you will be 5-10 mins. from Hartfords south end which is known for alot of good and BIG Italian food.JUST REMEMBER FRANKLIN GIANT GRINDERS

dwmzmm
03-19-2009, 03:48 PM
Thanks guys all the info is great.I'll be going to NARCON since it is only 30 mins away and I'll ask the BMS guys if they are there.If any one needs info on where to eat let me know since you will be 5-10 mins. from Hartfords south end which is known for alot of good and BIG Italian food.JUST REMEMBER FRANKLIN GAINT GRINDERS

Bill (of BMS) is usually at most of the NARCON's. Never met him (personally), but can tell
he's a really nice guy. Have fun!

Night Tripper
03-20-2009, 11:02 PM
I picked up a 1978 last month on eBay. I'd been patiently waiting, like a spider, for months. I plan on building it soon.

Two weeks ago, I saw one go for thirty bucks on eBay. Sometimes a good deal can be found on ebay if you catch others sleeping.

jpaw33
03-21-2009, 07:11 PM
Picked up this nose cone at Narcon from BMS today. Here's my question, Is there any reason not to take the bt-70 body tube & eliminate the stuffer tube[bt-20 bt-60] and paper shroud, add a baffle and use this BMS nose cone? If I do it the original way I will have to order 60/70 rings and 20/70 20/60's. For the engine mount rings I think I will order some ring stock and cut my own from the pattern provide here. The second picture is of the parts from semroc, if I do this project the original way.Just don't want to build this then find out I screwed up the center of gravity or have stability issues .No rocksim.

dwmzmm
03-21-2009, 08:29 PM
Picked up this nose cone at Narcon from BMS today. Here's my question, Is there any reason not to take the bt-70 body tube & eliminate the stuffer tube[bt-20 bt-60] and paper shroud, add a baffle and use this BMS nose cone? If I do it the original way I will have to order 60/70 rings and 20/70 20/60's. For the engine mount rings I think I will order some ring stock and cut my own from the pattern provide here. The second picture is of the parts from semroc, if I do this project the original way.Just don't want to build this then find out I screwed up the center of gravity or have stability issues .No rocksim.

The Gemini balsa nosecone in your first picture is how the PDRocketry's GT-3 looked; the
SEMROC version is closer to the Estes kit. I had the Estes nosecone and used it (instead of
the PDRocketry's) for my GT-3 build as reported in EMRR.

If I were you, I'd stick with the plans as far as the tubing(s), engine mount, etc. The way the
plan is set up, you want to reduce the internal volume so there will be greater pressure from
the ejection gas to push out and deploy the recovery system. And, so long as you use the
clear slip on fins (as designed), you should have no stability issues.

jpaw33
10-24-2009, 09:44 PM
Here's my 2 Titans clones almost finished,The 1 on the left is an estes clone with card stock shroud while the right is the BMS balsa nose with shroud,just have to do the white striping!!!! :D