Is this true about Estes?

[Vulcan]

Hello there,

This is the first time I’ve ever posted anything, but I’ve heard something so scary that I thought I needed to tell everyone what’s going on at Estes. Like many of you, I’ve heard that Estes is for sale, but more recently I’ve heard from a guy that I know has an inside tract to what’s going on at Estes. Get this - I was told that Barry is so disgusted and angry with all the new government regulations that he is going to close the factory instead of sell it. Can you believe it?...close it vs. selling. Evidently Barry can get more money by scraping the machinery and selling the land than he could get if he chose to sell it outright. I guess he is exhausted and he’s fed up with all the BS it takes to keep Estes compliant the new freaking regulations, that he would rather just close the doors than put up with it anymore. I guess he has all the money he needs and the cost and problems associated with government agencies (mostly - BATFE) with selling the company are more than he cares to deal with.

As I hear it, they are going to close down engine production in a few months and he is going to dismantle the engine making machines and sell the steal for scrap. Then, within a few months that, he is going to lock the doors of the assembly and manufacturing areas. Final disposition of the buildings and land will be turned over to an agency for liquidation as the land in Penrose is worth more than the buildings that sit on it and he will be comfortably retired.

I am very concerned that what I’ve hear is true and if so, what does that mean for the rocket hobby? I mean, this guy I know is very close to the organization and I believe he is telling me the truth, which could spell disaster for the hobby as we know it. Certainly, Quest, Semroc, and the others can pick up some of the kit slack, but who is going to supply engines?....I can’t believe he would do something like this. Has anyone else heard rumors or anything about this happening? Can this really be the end of a hobby legend? Has anyone else heard anything about this?

Vulcan

[rokitflite]

Sounds like more beans for the rumor mill :rolleyes:

[jetlag]

Sounds like more beans for the rumor mill :rolleyes:

YEP!

[Peartree]

Just my first thought. Whatever you think of Barry, he is NOT stupid. A machine that manufactures things like motors or body tubes or nosecones or mousepads or ANYTHING is worth far more as a machine than as scrap steel. If Barry decides to close, the machines will bring more money at auction than any sensible person would pass up.

[bob jablonski]

How many folks would have the actual interest to buy the motor machines when you consider the cost PLUS insurance, the explosive mag for the black powder, Hazmat, Shipping ect. I could probably count the folks who would seriously consider bidding on one hand.
Take my name off and it would be under 4.
Mr. Bob
Starlight Guy

[Der Red Max]

Hey Vulcan, that's not even remotely "logical".
I suspect you're just trying to politicize a simple company sale dude!
Are you that anxious to start another thread that's going to run on bile?
I suppose I would create a new account under a different name if I where going to post something lame too.

[Rocket Doctor]

All of this is a bunch of GARBAGE, totally WRONG. I guess they have nothing better to do with themselves then to spread rumors.

Just because Estes is For Sale, doesn't mean that it is going out of business, quite the contrary. More fodder for the rumor mill.

New product is on the horizon and the Classic Series is part of that mix.



That scenario is so ridiculous beyond belief...................

[jay]

Vulcan, welcome to YORF. :) No offense but, I don't believe anything you just posted.

[Tau Zero]

Like many of you, I’ve heard that Estes is for sale, but more recently I’ve heard from a guy that I know has an inside tract to what’s going on at Estes. [SNIP]

I mean, this guy I know is very close to the organization and I believe he is telling me the truth, which could spell disaster for the hobby as we know it.Okay, you've activated my finely honed TV reporter brain. (heavy sigh)


Here are the hard questions:

1) You say this guy is "very close" to Estes. *How* close?

2) Even more importantly, where did *he* hear this? What's *his* source?


While you may have heard it directly from this guy's mouth (or keyboard, if it was via e-mail), the whole storytelling style feels a *lot* like an urban legend.

What this all boils down to is that the burden of proof rests with *him.*


Sorry, it's not my intent to flame anybody, but I have to discern between fact and rumor in my day job, so these are the first questions that come to mind.


Cheers,

[cas2047]

This is the first time I’ve ever posted anything, but I’ve heard something so scary that I thought I needed to tell everyone what’s going on at Estes.

Don't get yourself all worked up. The scenario your friend laid out just doesn't make any sense at all.

However even if his doomsday scenario did play out life would go on for low power fliers.

Quest is ramping up their low power black powder motor business and Aerotech has for a long time sold 18 and 24mm motors/reloads. If Estes stopped producing motors both Quest and Aerotech would certainly expand their operations and make a ton of money doing so. You might even see some other motor manufacturer jump into the business.

From what I understand Estes makes a ton of money on motor sales.

As for the kits themselves, I've been a collector, builder and flier of Estes kits for a long time, but if they went away life would go on. There are other great vendors out there who make great kits.

However I expect Estes will be around for a long time.

Just my humble opinion of course.

[foose4string]

Sounds like a great rumor for boosting motor sales. Create a state of panic, get people to buy up motors in anticipation for a Doom's Day that never comes. Great marketing tactic. Give that guy at Estes a raise! :chuckle:

[luke strawwalker]

Having watched cotton gins moving south of the border for the last 30 years, I wouldn't be surprised if this *someday* happens...

The equipment won't be scrapped though. Scrap prices have dropped through the floor in the last year, after some record highs, and have rebounded SOME but not a whole lot. Any functioning machine is worth FAR more than the price it would fetch for scrap. Around here, near Houston, we see a constant daisy chain of wrecked vehicles bought at auction pulling other wrecked vehicles with tow bars chained to the front, all heading south for the land of sunshine and tequila. We've even lost several cotton gins around here that the owners went broke, and buyers from Mexico came in, dismantled the entire gin machinery, and trucked it to Tampico and rebuilt those gins down there. EPA hit the ginning industry pretty hard over the last 10 years or so because of 'particulate matter' (dust) levels. It's just exporting our industry is all...

Now, I can see how gov't regulations in the form of BATF and OSHA and EPA and stuff like that presents quite a large cost of doing business, and how one day it may prove uneconomical to run black powder motor manufacturing here in the US. However, Mexico is MORE THAN WILLING to soak up said machinery and crank out whatever we want manufactured down there, and gladly ship it right back across the border under NAFTA tax and duty free. Heck even the beef industry is going that way, slowly but surely.

And even if by some chance Mexico wasn't interested, China would gladly step in and take up the slack, as would likely Eastern Europe or Germany, Russia, or whatever... They wouldn't buy the machinery and ship it over there, but they would be glad to import their BP motors into our market if they could gain significant market share...

Where there's a will there's a way... OL JR :)

[moonzero2]

Let's play what if,...
if the machines get shipped South and manufacturing is taken up by Mexico,… maybe,… just maybe,... they’ll bring back the B14-0. :chuckle:

[Rocket Doctor]

Once again, Est4es is not going out of business, and, as previously mentioned, no matter what you think about Barry, don't you think that he might want to retire?

And the notion that the motor machines would be sold for scrap metal is so outrageous, it's beyond belief, do you know the current price of scrap metal, here in SC, it's going for $3.00 per pound. So, if you have a 500 lb car motor, your only getting $15.00.

Anmd the reference to the BATF, what would that have to do with Estes anyway. There motors are in full compliance with all federal regulations and the new CPSC HR4040 regulations.

It seems that everyone is so facinated with Estes. It's being sold and will remain in business under new ownership......plain and simple.

And, Vulcan, for a first post, this was a "real gem"......NOT !!!!!!!!!

Like Centuri Guy mentioned, get your fact correct before you post something like this. You must know the difference between fact and FICTION........

[tbzep]

I think some folks need to get out and fly some rockets, or take a valium or something to relax. :rolleyes:

Looks like a false rumor to me, but even if it isn't there's nothing we can do about it.

[Rocket Doctor]

I think exlax would be more appropriate........because some people are so full of it........

[tbzep]

I think exlax would be more appropriate........because some people are so full of it........

:chuckle:

[Royatl]

And the notion that the motor machines would be sold for scrap metal is so outrageous, it's beyond belief, do you know the current price of scrap metal, here in SC, it's going for $3.00 per pound. So, if you have a 500 lb car motor, your only getting $15.00.




Uh, did you mean 3 cents per pound? $0.03?

[mperdue]

Uh, did you mean 3 cents per pound? $0.03?
Arithmetic is obviously not his strong suit...

Mario

[rokitflite]

Uh, did you mean 3 cents per pound? $0.03?

Actually it was a 5 pound car motor... One of them thar import jobbies. :chuckle:

[Rocket Doctor]

Uh, did you mean 3 cents per pound? $0.03?

NO, $3.00 per pound. We took some auto parts to the local scrap dealer and they were paying $3.00 per pound. Some places were only paying 3 and 4 cents pere pound.

Let's put it this one, we were short changed, apparently. Everytime we take in scrap metal, it seem the higher the weight the lower the price. They put one thing down on the receipt and you know darn well, the weight is much higher than what they are actually giving you.

And you are correct, it's .03 cents per pound, but, when they put the amount down, it says $3.00.

What a scam.

Thanks for opening up my eyes...........

[Rocket Doctor]

Sounds like a great rumor for boosting motor sales. Create a state of panic, get people to buy up motors in anticipation for a Doom's Day that never comes. Great marketing tactic. Give that guy at Estes a raise! :chuckle:

In my opinion, this certainly wasn't started by anyone directly connected to Estes............

[barone]

(snip).......it's going for $3.00 per pound. So, if you have a 500 lb car motor, your only getting $15.00......(snip)
At $3 a pound, that 500 pound motor will get you $1500, not $15.00.
NO, $3.00 per pound. We took some auto parts to the local scrap dealer and they were paying $3.00 per pound. Some places were only paying 3 and 4 cents pere pound.
I think they were probably paying $3 per hundred pound. That would get you the $15.00 for a 500 pound motor. That equates to $0.03 (three cents a pound).

[shockwaveriderz]

I can't imagine Estes selling off fully fucntioning Mabel's (they have what 6? 7?) and selling them at scrap metal prices. considering how much they cost to make.

I mean, and this is all I'm going to say about it, Quest certainly didn't scrap their 3 Mabel's/Deltas motor making machines.

terry dean

[Royatl]

I can't imagine Estes selling off fully fucntioning Mabel's (they have what 6? 7?) and selling them at scrap metal prices. considering how much they cost to make.

I mean, and this is all I'm going to say about it, Quest certainly didn't scrap their 3 Mabel's/Deltas motor making machines.

terry dean

Come on, tell us more. They didn't? Does Bill have them now? Is he just keeping them in storage or for reference?

[shockwaveriderz]

Come on, tell us more. They didn't? Does Bill have them now? Is he just keeping them in storage or for reference?

Roy, not being coy, but that's all I can say about it. Call Bill Stine up and ask him what he did with them. I'm sure he will tell you.


terry dean

[rokitflite]

:rolleyes:

[Rocket Doctor]

At $3 a pound, that 500 pound motor will get you $1500, not $15.00.

I think they were probably paying $3 per hundred pound. That would get you the $15.00 for a 500 pound motor. That equates to $0.03 (three cents a pound).

You are correct, as other have pointed out, it's how they write up the invoice ticked, they put down $3.00, but, they don't say that it's for 100 pounds.

We must have taken at least 8 trips to the scrap yard with close to 10,000 pounds of auto scrap.

It only makes sense, all that weight and very little to show for it.

They are ripping us off.........

[Rocket Doctor]

Come on, tell us more. They didn't? Does Bill have them now? Is he just keeping them in storage or for reference?

Boat anchors in the Colorado River>>>>>>>>>>>>>>