Estes Catalog 'parts of a rocket' plan

[Green Dragon]

I'm looking through some catalogs over on Ninfinger ( ones I don;t have in my collection, yet, lol ), specifically looking at the 1974 Estes page 2 .

the ' parts of a rocket' , generic design with transition to larger clear payload section .

I'd always thought this was an X-Ray drawn somewhat genericly ( hard to tell if the fins would be correct).

However, in lokoing at it now, the motor shown is clearly a D12-3 .... making the lower tube a BT50.

Also noting the Nike style fin airfoils.

Now I'm going to have to build this up, was wondering if anyone had looked this over or built one ?

or curious enough to input to Rocksim ( my trial version expired, so awaiting cashflow to register it sometime....... )

Happy (belated, although our family gathering is in 2 hours ) Holidays !

~ AL

[CPMcGraw]

I'm looking through some catalogs over on Ninfinger ( ones I don;t have in my collection, yet, lol ), specifically looking at the 1974 Estes page 2 .

the ' parts of a rocket' , generic design with transition to larger clear payload section .

I'd always thought this was an X-Ray drawn somewhat genericly ( hard to tell if the fins would be correct).

However, in lokoing at it now, the motor shown is clearly a D12-3 .... making the lower tube a BT50.

Also noting the Nike style fin airfoils.

Now I'm going to have to build this up, was wondering if anyone had looked this over or built one ?

or curious enough to input to Rocksim ( my trial version expired, so awaiting cashflow to register it sometime....... )

Happy (belated, although our family gathering is in 2 hours ) Holidays !

~ AL

You mean this design?
http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=1764&postcount=72

I think this is the one you're referring to...

[Green Dragon]

Craig ,

thansk, but that's not the one I meant .... sorry if my post was not specific.

here's the drawing :

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/estes74/74est2.html

that rocket ( generic 4 fins,transition,clear payload.. well. maybe not 100 % generic, lol )

~ AL

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

You mean this design?
http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=1764&postcount=72

I think this is the one you're referring to...

It's called the Cosmik Debris and it's half-finished. I started work on this over a year ago, but only got going in earnest recently. Craig's right. It's a pig and I was trying to think of a way to upgrade it to 24mm power. That problem might have been taken care of if Quest gets that 18mm D into the motor supply stream. :cool:

[ghrocketman]

We have been hearing about that 18mm Quest D almost as long as Enerjet touted their composite "D" back in '72/'73 that never came out.
How long does it really take to bring out an engine that Aerotech essentially already makes ? As I understand it, Aerotech is going to make this one for them anyway, so where is the holdup ?

The holdup does not really matter to me anyway due to the fact that I'm sure it will be priced at some obnoxious level. Unless these 18mm D's are within 10% of the normal cost (NOT suggested retail) of an Estes BP D engine ( such as 3 for $10, which I HIGHLY doubt will happen) I really see no use for them even if they are a full 20 nsec. I see no way these could cost less than an 18mm RMS reload, which we already have.
Who flies BT-20/18mm size rockets that needs a D ? Most likely nobody...the rockets that need a D engine are capable of accepting a 24 mm mount instead of an 18mm.
I would rather they made a BP "baby/13 nsec" D like the old Cox D8-3 and kept the price around BP C's. One could even extend the case length by say 10mm and get a full 7 sec delay. This would be great for "pig like" 18mm rockets such as the Estes Mars Lander or Space Shuttle, both of which I have flown SEVERAL times on my stash of Ancient Cox D8-3's.

[CPMcGraw]

Craig ,

thansk, but that's not the one I meant .... sorry if my post was not specific.

here's the drawing :

http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/estes74/74est2.html

that rocket ( generic 4 fins,transition,clear payload.. well. maybe not 100 % generic, lol )

~ AL

Ahhh....

My mistake. Flip those fins upside down, and what you have is a derivative of the Loadlifter 1A design from MRN. It's plan EIRP #19. I agree, the upper (payload) area is an X-Ray, with the BNC-50K or PNC-50K cone and a clear plastic tube (4" PST-50S).

[Green Dragon]

Ahhh....

My mistake. Flip those fins upside down, and what you have is a derivative of the Loadlifter 1A design from MRN. It's plan EIRP #19. I agree, the upper (payload) area is an X-Ray, with the BNC-50K or PNC-50K cone and a clear plastic tube (4" PST-50S).

ok, am hunting that plan down now, to see what it shows ( if it's posted, looking as I reply ) .

As for the X-ray payload, that's exactly what I thought / see - however, what I noticed today was that the motor shown in that drawing is a D12-3.

I realise it's just a drawing, likely x-ray and whatever else, and D12 wasn;t 'flown' in there, etc.... but got me thinking since that makes the lower part BT50, and the clear section, maybe BT55 ?

not sure a clear BT55 existed, did it ? Centuri ST13 size ?

I know, it's a wierd obsession, but now I'm on a quest to build this bird, lol ..


~ AL

[jflis]

WAY OT... (sorry :) )

--stuff--

ghrocketman, I *love* your avatar :) It's been a while since i've seen that one. I drew that up for "AirForce", one of the guys over on the TRF forum that has since gotten out of rocketry (for the moment anyway :) )

It was freaky to see that come up LOL I haven't seen it in years!

very kewl
jim

[ghrocketman]

Jim,
I think I actually got it from AirForce on TRF.
It was either that or the animated "pirate" flag that I use on "Scream and Fly" which is a high performance boating site I subscribe to. I thought the "AirForce" avatar was most appropriate here.
Fast boats are one of my other MANY hobbies, which also include Drag and fast Offshore boat racing, Poker (which I was involved with BEFORE the poker craze), R/C aircraft, Jet Skis, Target Shooting/firearm collecting.
My wife thinks I have far too many expensive hobbies.

Thanks for the Avatar !

[sandman]

"I realise it's just a drawing, likely x-ray and whatever else, and D12 wasn;t 'flown' in there, etc.... but got me thinking since that makes the lower part BT50, and the clear section, maybe BT55 ? "



There IS a BT-56 sized clear payload tube. It comes with the "Super Nova Payloader" and it's an amazing 12" long!

They are out of production but where never very popular. eHobbies had them really cheap.

[CPMcGraw]

ok, am hunting that plan down now, to see what it shows ( if it's posted, looking as I reply ) .

As for the X-ray payload, that's exactly what I thought / see - however, what I noticed today was that the motor shown in that drawing is a D12-3.

I realise it's just a drawing, likely x-ray and whatever else, and D12 wasn;t 'flown' in there, etc.... but got me thinking since that makes the lower part BT50, and the clear section, maybe BT55 ?

not sure a clear BT55 existed, did it ? Centuri ST13 size ?

I know, it's a wierd obsession, but now I'm on a quest to build this bird, lol ..


~ AL

Just goes to show it pays to "pay attention"...

I never noticed that reference, until you mentioned it again just now. All I saw was the resemblence to the X-Ray; I never looked at the motor!

As Sandman noted, Estes finally did introduce a clear BT-55 tube (PST-55), and only for one kit -- the Super Nova Payloader. I picked up one about a year ago at a HL half-price sale just for the nose cone (PNC-55AO). Except for a few bits and pieces, the kit itself is pure trash (pre-colored tubes, plastic fins, plastic engine mount pieces...). I'm not sure I'd even want to clone the rocket with "real" components. One could argue it's a cross between the Pathfinder and an upscale Avenger sustainer...

That PNC-55AO nose cone would be correct for this upscale. You'll need the SNP kit to get both the cone and the clear tube (or get the balsa version from BMS or SEMROC). Next task would be to locate the transition, a TA-5055. Again, BMS or SEMROC, and you'd have to choose between balsa or balsa. The fins would be easy, just locate that Loadlifter 1A plan, increase the thickness to 1/8", and flip them over. The BT-50 tube is probably 9" long, it doesn't look like the 50L (12.7"), and a single CR-2050 ring to act as an engine block.

See the attached RKT file, and the EIRP #19 sheet...

[CPMcGraw]

BTW...

Some specs on the 1974 Demo Rocket...

Motor -- D12-7. Do not try to use the -5, you need the extra time delay!

Altitude -- 1750'

Deployment V -- 4.6 FPS <-- Very soft and gentle!

CG-CP Margin (loaded) -- 1.8

Weight (loaded) -- 2.75 oz
Weight (empty) -- 1.25 oz

Length -- 20"

Fin Span -- ~5"

Recovery via Estes 12" parachute

All-in-all, this is a very good, simple "D" bird. Nothing complicated at all...