Estes Red Tube Motors

[Gus]

Did the Red tube motors pre-date the Blue Tube motors and during what time periods were each used?

While MMI was selling Rock-A-Chutes in 6 packs and then 3 packs, how did Estes package their earliest motors?

[Rocket Doctor]

Originally, Estes packaged sample lots of motors in cloth bags with a tag, I have seen one, Mark Mayfield of LAUNCH has one, I haven't seen any others.


From what I understand, the red tube came first and then the blue ones, I have one red tube but a few other blue tubes.

I have six MMI motors, but they were loose, the ones I got.

The biggest problem with the tube packaging was trying to pry off the end caps, they were really glued on, then, inside there was the instruction sheet rolled up with the nicrome igniters.

Estes also had the "dimand" packs, a have quite of few of those, they had folded in ends and were shrink wrapped.

I have seen Estes motors packaged with three motors and as many as six and as you know, for WM, they also contain wadding.

Also, the bulk packs of motors which are packaged in a small box. A variety of motors packaged in 24 motor lots.

D and E motors were never packaged in bulk packs.

[hcmbanjo]

I remember the blue tubes, but had never seen the red ones.
Here are the only three I have, all have had the end caps torn off.

The top one is the the standard Blue color.

The middle one is from Estes, but was brown, like a very heavy paper towel roll.

The bottom tube is green (it is more green than the picture shows) and was used for the D engine series. That D13-7 is from that tube.

I agree, those end caps had to be torn or cut off! It was tough getting the rolled instructions and ignitors out.
I remember thinking how the engines could rattle around in the tubes during shipping. With three engines stacked in the tube there was 3/4" of free space at the top.

[Gus]

Ken, Hans, thanks.

My impression is that the tubes started because in the early days most of Estes distribution was by mail order and the tubes were stout enough to ship individually. Since they were already buying tubes for motors and tubes for rocket bodies it just made sense they would buy tubes for shipping, too.

But I'm really interested in knowing the years they used which tubes. My suspicion is that they switched color because printing is much harder to see on the red tubes. I have four red tubes, two of which are not opened and have no indication on the outside of the tubes what kind of motors are inside. The tubes are stamped with Estes return address (looks like a rubber hand stamp was used).

Hans, any idea what year your brown tube shipped?

Also, a while back I think somebody produced a list showing what years various Estes motors were produced. Anybody have an idea where that list might be found?

[hcmbanjo]

Hi Gus,
I can't say for sure when I got the brown tube.
I started in 1969 and didn't get my first engines until 1970. It would have to be from the early 1970s, before they switched over to the "diamond" engine packaging.
Who knows, it might be like the old blue engines. They might have been out of the standard blue shipping tubes and went with the brown in a pinch.

Being from California, I never received engines sent through the mail. Those mailing tubes and engines were bought in a hobby store about a two hour drive away. They were sold at the hobby store in the mailing tubes. That hobby store was one of the few in the state that had the license to sell engines.

There was no printing on the outside of these mailing tubes, just a stamped engine designation on the white paper end cap.

[Earl]

Ken, Hans, thanks.

My impression is that the tubes started because in the early days most of Estes distribution was by mail order and the tubes were stout enough to ship individually. Since they were already buying tubes for motors and tubes for rocket bodies it just made sense they would buy tubes for shipping, too.

But I'm really interested in knowing the years they used which tubes. My suspicion is that they switched color because printing is much harder to see on the red tubes. I have four red tubes, two of which are not opened and have no indication on the outside of the tubes what kind of motors are inside. The tubes are stamped with Estes return address (looks like a rubber hand stamp was used).

Hans, any idea what year your brown tube shipped?

Also, a while back I think somebody produced a list showing what years various Estes motors were produced. Anybody have an idea where that list might be found?

It seems too at some point that they could only ship just so many motors per 'shipment', due to postal regulations of the day. I may be wrong (and the blue tubes pre-date my rocketry involvement by a few years, though I have a box of about 100 complete blue tubes with motors, most un-opened), but seems I recall that for both Estes and Centuri (reading some old catalogs from the latter 60s and such) that they both stated something like "due to postal regulations we can only ship so many motors per package; don't be concerned if your full order arrives in several different packages".

So, could it be that the postal regulations of the day limited motor shipments to three per package, hence the 'tubes' (three motors per tube) to ship them in that way?

Anyone recall from 'back in the day' how their motor orders arrived at their home if you ordered, say, 5-6 tubes of motors?

Just a hunch....

Earl

[sandman]

I'm not sure but wasn't there a brown tube that predated the blue tube?

I just seem to remember getting engines in brown tubes in the very early 60's

OMG! that was almot 50 years ago! :eek:

I have to go lay down now...it's time for my nap.

[shockwaveriderz]

Did the Red tube motors pre-date the Blue Tube motors and during what time periods were each used?

While MMI was selling Rock-A-Chutes in 6 packs and then 3 packs, how did Estes package their earliest motors?


Gus I got into model rocketry in 1967 and I can remember my Estes engines coming in blue tubes, so I guess the red ones predate 1967.


Vern Estes in his LAUNCH series made some comments about the mailing tubes and GHS got the Denver Post Office to allow up to 3 motors very early on say 1958

SR: Did you ship engines in the “blue
tubes” from the beginning, or did these
come along later?

Vern: The blue tubes were the third
generation of shipping containers. For a
very short while we used a small rectangular
box just large enough for three engines.
We next shipped in red/brown tubes,
which were identical to the blue tubes except
for color. At the time only 3 rocket
engines could be mailed in a single package,
but there was no limit on the number
of packages. The mailing tubes were very
economical for us to obtain and package,
so were ideal for our operation. We used
the same tube to package our first kit, the
Astron Scout.

That engine listing was by Doug Sams but I can't find it.

I also seem to remember some earlier posts here(?) about the various tube colors and dating...?

Terry Dean

[Bob H]

Anyone recall from 'back in the day' how their motor orders arrived at their home if you ordered, say, 5-6 tubes of motors?
EarlThey came in a box that could hold up to 9 tubes... I think that was the maximim number of motors they were allowed to ship in one package. I still have one of those boxes with a 1969 postmark on it.

I also think I recall getting motors in a box that could hold 6 tubes but I don't have one so I might be "misremembering" that.

[Rocket Doctor]

I remember the blue tubes, but had never seen the red ones.
Here are the only three I have, all have had the end caps torn off.

The top one is the the standard Blue color.

The middle one is from Estes, but was brown, like a very heavy paper towel roll.

The bottom tube is green (it is more green than the picture shows) and was used for the D engine series. That D13-7 is from that tube.

I agree, those end caps had to be torn or cut off! It was tough getting the rolled instructions and ignitors out.
I remember thinking how the engines could rattle around in the tubes during shipping. With three engines stacked in the tube there was 3/4" of free space at the top.


Now that you mention it, I do remember the green tubes for the D motors. Also, I have one brown kraft tube.

Also, way back then, you could buy as little as one motor at a time.

[Rocket Doctor]

It seems too at some point that they could only ship just so many motors per 'shipment', due to postal regulations of the day. I may be wrong (and the blue tubes pre-date my rocketry involvement by a few years, though I have a box of about 100 complete blue tubes with motors, most un-opened), but seems I recall that for both Estes and Centuri (reading some old catalogs from the latter 60s and such) that they both stated something like "due to postal regulations we can only ship so many motors per package; don't be concerned if your full order arrives in several different packages".

So, could it be that the postal regulations of the day limited motor shipments to three per package, hence the 'tubes' (three motors per tube) to ship them in that way?

Anyone recall from 'back in the day' how their motor orders arrived at their home if you ordered, say, 5-6 tubes of motors?

Just a hunch....

Earl


Earl

I remember way back when , when I ordered , let's say several tubes of motors, they would all be bundled together with a rubber band, I guess the postal service didn't want to handle individuals tubes in their delivery.

I also remember that they sent mine with a paper shipping label and the motor designation was stamped on the white end caps, but, after you tore off the ends, good bye description.




I had also heard that whatever paper was available from the vendor, that is what color tube you ended up with, the same with the motor tube colors.



RD

[Rocket Doctor]

There was also a white regtangular box that held 12 of the "diamond" motor tubes, I think these were used for retailers. I have about eight of these.

[Royatl]

Anyone recall from 'back in the day' how their motor orders arrived at their home if you ordered, say, 5-6 tubes of motors?

Earl

Yep, in 1968 I would order 9-15 motors at a time. These came in 3-5 blue tubes, often strap-taped together (but sometimes just held together with big rubber bands), with a shipping label wrapped around. Sometime in late 68 or '69, the restrictions must've been relaxed some, because I started getting tubes of engines shipped within the box of other rocket supplies that I ordered. I'm starting to think that this may have been when Estes started using UPS to areas that had UPS service.

Centuri motors came in those little two piece slip-fit boxes that had wire tougues on one piece that slipped through slots in the other piece. The tongues would be bent over to lock the box shut, and then be taped over with strapping tape. Once i got motors from Centuri in black tubes (same material as the Estes blue tubes).

[SEL]

I believe the tubes changed from red to blue when the motor designations changed from metric to English - mid 1967 or so. The motor type was always printed on the end caps, which were white on both red and blue tubes.

Sean
Ken, Hans, thanks.

My impression is that the tubes started because in the early days most of Estes distribution was by mail order and the tubes were stout enough to ship individually. Since they were already buying tubes for motors and tubes for rocket bodies it just made sense they would buy tubes for shipping, too.

But I'm really interested in knowing the years they used which tubes. My suspicion is that they switched color because printing is much harder to see on the red tubes. I have four red tubes, two of which are not opened and have no indication on the outside of the tubes what kind of motors are inside. The tubes are stamped with Estes return address (looks like a rubber hand stamp was used).

Hans, any idea what year your brown tube shipped?

Also, a while back I think somebody produced a list showing what years various Estes motors were produced. Anybody have an idea where that list might be found?

[SEL]

It seems too at some point that they could only ship just so many motors per 'shipment', due to postal regulations of the day. I may be wrong (and the blue tubes pre-date my rocketry involvement by a few years, though I have a box of about 100 complete blue tubes with motors, most un-opened), but seems I recall that for both Estes and Centuri (reading some old catalogs from the latter 60s and such) that they both stated something like "due to postal regulations we can only ship so many motors per package; don't be concerned if your full order arrives in several different packages".

So, could it be that the postal regulations of the day limited motor shipments to three per package, hence the 'tubes' (three motors per tube) to ship them in that way?

Anyone recall from 'back in the day' how their motor orders arrived at their home if you ordered, say, 5-6 tubes of motors?

Just a hunch....

Earl

I remember seeing that in catalogues, but no matter how many motors I ordered (8 or 10 tubes on 1 order in particular) all arrived in the same box.

S.

[BEC]

"Back in the day" all my rocket supplies came by mail from Box 227, Penrose, Colorado to Box 154, Shiprock, NM. All I remember were blue tubes - each individually addressed and with postage applied, though sometimes the post office rubber banded them together somewhere between the two points. It is possible that some were later in boxes with rocket parts/kits. I do not have any of that sort of tube any more.

I had (and still have a small quantity of) English-unit-marked motors and do not remember red or brown tubes, so from my knothole I don't think that was when the change occurred (when they went with the Metric designations).

[mojo1986]

I remember seeing that in catalogues, but no matter how many motors I ordered (8 or 10 tubes on 1 order in particular) all arrived in the same box.

S.

I have an old Estes memo that states that, due to new postal regulations, Estes would henceforth be permitted to ship up to 9 tubes (27 motors) in a single package. The date code at the bottom of the memo indicates that it was printed in 1969.

Joe

[SEL]

I meant english to metric.

SI believe the tubes changed from red to blue when the motor designations changed from metric to English - mid 1967 or so. The motor type was always printed on the end caps, which were white on both red and blue tubes.

Sean

[blackshire]

Were 13 mm mini motors ever shipped in the tubes, perhaps only to hobby shops, or did the "diamond packs" appear at the same time as the new Series III "T" motors? (I used to have some blue tubes in the 1970s, and I think two mini motors would fit in the mailing tube side-by-side, and if so, ten mini motors could be packed into the tube.)

[blackshire]

Another question just came to me: How were the Estes (and Centuri) Series III "shorty" 18 mm motors packaged? Five of them would fit in a blue or red mailing tube. If the postal regulations of the day also limited the number of "shorty" motors to three per tube, were they shipped in shorter tubes, or were they packed in the standard motor tubes (perhaps with wadding or tissue filling the "rattle space" inside the tubes?

[Gus]

The "Shorty" motors were sent in blue tubes, 3 to a tube. A cardboard spacer (18mm empty motor tube) was used to fill the rest of the tube.

[blackshire]

The "Shorty" motors were sent in blue tubes, 3 to a tube. A cardboard spacer (18mm empty motor tube) was used to fill the rest of the tube.I should have figured as much--Vern and the folks were resourceful and used whatever materials were at hand. Now that I think of it, they even offered a balsa nose cone that was made to fit the motor mailing tubes, although I never saw one except in the catalogs. A rocket that used the mailing tube would have used (I conjecture) a BT-55 motor mount with the centering rings peeled or trimmed down to fit.

[Royatl]

Were 13 mm mini motors ever shipped in the tubes, perhaps only to hobby shops, or did the "diamond packs" appear at the same time as the new Series III "T" motors? (I used to have some blue tubes in the 1970s, and I think two mini motors would fit in the mailing tube side-by-side, and if so, ten mini motors could be packed into the tube.)

Mini motors came in diamond packs from the get-go. The fliers at NARAM-13 got the first mini-motors in their registration packs. Regular motors had been coming in diamond packs for at least a few months by this time.

[blackshire]

Thank you for confirming that, Roy. I didn't think mini motors were ever shipped in the tubes, but I wasn't sure.