Early Igniter?

[SEL]

Here's the pic of the "Waterproof Igniter" that I mentioned in the discusion on the Yahoo group.

Sean

[ghrocketman]

What a riot.
Looks like standard fireworks fuse to me that can be bought in 30+ foot spools as "cannon fuse".
Years ago, I knew several individuals that used this method (albeit against the NAR safety code) to launch their BP model rockets as they found it easier/more reliable than what they deemed to be expensive/failure prone astron igniters.

[SEL]

What a riot.
Looks like standard fireworks fuse to me that can be bought in 30+ foot spools as "cannon fuse".
Years ago, I knew several individuals that used this method (albeit against the NAR safety code) to launch their BP model rockets as they found it easier/more reliable than what they deemed to be expensive/failure prone astron igniters.

Yup, that's exactly what it is. Rumaging around in the range box, I found another 6-8" piece.
According to Dale, that's waht came with his first starter kit from estes.

Sean

[ghrocketman]

If Estes supplied this it must have been before any sort of modern safety code.
Of course back when model rockets were introduced in the late 50's early 60's, M-80's, M-100's and Cherry Bombs were perfectly legal in many areas. They (large firecrackers) did not technically become illegal for consumer use until sometime in 1966 or 67.
I had heard (maybe erroneously) that electrical ignition was developed for model rockets not for any safety reason, but to differentiate them from skyrockets/fireworks in the states that fireworks were/are illegal in.

I know that back in the late 70's/early 80's some of those that I associated with that were rocketeers used fuse instead of electric igniters for reliability. I even know of a school class teacher that was convinced by a student back in the early 80's to switch from $.50 each igniter to $.10 worth of fuse in 4" lengths for each student's rocket during the yearly rocketry segment of the science class. Back then as now, school funds were always limited, and anything that was cheaper & more reliable was usually implemented. The teacher saw no reason why this was any less safe (and I have to admit I still don't either, other than for some reason it is against the safety code) than electrical ignition.
From what I saw, and based on the number of fizzled igniters I went through, fuse was more reliable & much cheaper than astron igniters. One friend of mine even went so far as to place a very small pinch of loose black powder into the engine nozzle before jamming in the fuse. He NEVER had a misfire (not that I'm condoning this activity).

I actually taught rocketry after school classes to the elementary schools in my community when I was a high school junior, senior, and college freshman and so did one of the "Fuse-fliers" but I did not allow him to expose the young kids to this method. In these classes we alwaysused electrical ignition. Gotta set the right example ya know ! :p

[SEL]

If Estes supplied this it must have been before any sort of modern safety code.
Of course back when model rockets were introduced in the late 50's early 60's, M-80's, M-100's and Cherry Bombs were perfectly legal in many areas. They (large firecrackers) did not technically become illegal for consumer use until sometime in 1966 or 67.
I had heard (maybe erroneously) that electrical ignition was developed for model rockets not for any safety reason, but to differentiate them from skyrockets/fireworks in the states that fireworks were/are illegal in. <snip>

I was under the impression that the fuse was to be used with the nichrome wire, not matches. Stick the fuse in the nozzle, wrap the wire around the fuse, hook up the clips, press the button, up she goes. As far as the Astron Igniters go, I never had any problem as long as I had enough power (never *could* find those 'PhotoFlash' batteries :( ). Mostly used the car battery or a 12v lantern battery. I had/have an ElectroLaunch rigged for 12V, but regular D cells didn't last long. Here's another pic of the fuse w/ruler for Shockie.

Sean

[snaquin]

Yup, that's exactly what it is. Rumaging around in the range box, I found another 6-8" piece.
According to Dale, that's waht came with his first starter kit from estes.

Sean

Visco cannon fuse was common place in two of the larger hobby stores in the New Orleans area back in the late 60's early 70's. Model Car Raceways and Rayven's Hobby store both sold it in either red or green and I remembered timing it because it stated on the package that it was waterproof and burned at 30 seconds per foot and came in 50 foot packs for a couple of bucks.

It was stocked with the model rocket kits and engines and that's how I learned about it. Although as ghrocketman mentioned as being against the safety code for this use, it was common knowledge with the guys that ran these stores that it made a pretty good igniters.

I noticed it the other day on the Al's Hobby Shop website in the misc rocketry category so apparently some guys are still using it.

Ok, I'll come clean. For a short time in my youth I too was one of the "fuse-fliers" :o

[Ltvscout]

Visco cannon fuse was common place in two of the larger hobby stores in the New Orleans area back in the late 60's early 70's.
You can still buy 10ft rolls of the green fuse at hobby shops around here.
Ok, I'll come clean. For a short time in my youth I too was one of the "fuse-fliers" :o
Heh, when I'd be in periods of no rockets to launch due to them being lost, I'd launch anything else I had around. I'd tape motors to toy cars, to McDonald's straws, and to those balsa airplanes you'd buy at the drugstore.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

You can still buy 10ft rolls of the green fuse at hobby shops around here.

Heh, when I'd be in periods of no rockets to launch due to them being lost, I'd launch anything else I had around. I'd tape motors to toy cars, to McDonald's straws, and to those balsa airplanes you'd buy at the drugstore.

Yeah, I went the toy car route with a Matchbox Superfast car. We had several hundred feet of track set up, but the car disassembled itself in the first twenty or so. I guess it needed something of a spoiler. :eek: :rolleyes:

[Ltvscout]

Yeah, I went the toy car route with a Matchbox Superfast car. We had several hundred feet of track set up, but the car disassembled itself in the first twenty or so. I guess it needed something of a spoiler. :eek: :rolleyes:
I used Eldon slot cars. (Of course I'm kicking myself now that I see what they go for on eBay!)

[Bob H]

Heh, when I'd be in periods of no rockets to launch due to them being lost, I'd launch anything else I had around. I'd tape motors to toy cars, to McDonald's straws, and to those balsa airplanes you'd buy at the drugstore.

In the winter back in about 1968, I tried to make a rocket sled. The problem was that as soon as it hit any kind of bump in the snow it went airborne. I lived next to the Jr. High School athletic field and I must have launched that sled across the field 20 times before I gave up on it. I tried adding spoilers, wings, super long runners with the motor pointed slightly down to try to keep it on the snow but nothing worked.

I used that "Waterproof Igniter" that came in the 50 ft roll also. :rolleyes:

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

In the winter back in about 1968, I tried to make a rocket sled. The problem was that as soon as it hit any kind of bump in the snow it went airborne. I lived next to the Jr. High School athletic field and I must have launched that sled across the field 20 times before I gave up on it. I tried adding spoilers, wings, super long runners with the motor pointed slightly down to try to keep it on the snow but nothing worked.

I used that "Waterproof Igniter" that came in the 50 ft roll also. :rolleyes:

I did the same thing in 1977. The runners are still somewhere in my old range box. I'm not sure if mine ever got past the build stage. We "waxed" the runners with melted crayons. :rolleyes:

[shockwaveriderz]

G.HArry Stine and Orvillse H. Carlisle both INDEPENDENTLY discovered electrical ignition of model rockets cicra 3-5/1957. (At that time there was No NAR (or MMA) and no Safety Code. See my Early History Timeline for more facts . The Orville H. Carlise patent also shows FUSE igntiion (filed in 54/received in 58)) Thats what GHS said at least. More likely is the fact that they were in a mail conversation during that time frame , so its more likely unlless they were keeping it secret and to themselves, they probaly contributed to each others work without realizing it, or admiting it. No patent was ever filed by GHS or OHC per electrical ignition. The first igniter patent was filed in 1965 by VD Estes which became the famous Astron Igniter. I hope that GHS saved his corespondences with OHC and would like to see them some day; same for the GHS letters that OHC has/had. I'm sure his son has them

terry dean
aka shockie

"Old Rocketeers don't die; they just go OOP"

[Rocketeer#57]

Hasen't anyone seen and or used the old centuri sure shot ignitors which is exactly as you
describe here was all about and worked, They where great if used for custers and in fact I;m
sure lead to the use of fuse(thermalight ) for High power .

[Chas Russell]

Rocketerr#57 inquired: Hasen't anyone seen and or used the old centuri sure shot ignitors which is exactly as you describe here was all about and worked, They where great if used for custers and in fact I;m sure lead to the use of fuse(thermalight ) for High power .

I still have several packages of Sure-Shot ignitors. However, since they are now about three decades old, they only smolder when fired. The wick has gone bad even though they were stored in an ammo box.
Thermalite has long been the choice for high power motors, whether as the pyrogen or sheathed. Alas, it is difficult to purchase and requires all sorts of hoops to be jumped through. More trouble than worth. I use a magnalite kit to make ignitors (or enhance them) and I really like the Quickburst ignitors. Some folks talk about the expense, but when you consider messing with making igniters, your time, and reliability, they are cost effective.

[dwmzmm]

Rocketerr#57 inquired: Hasen't anyone seen and or used the old centuri sure shot ignitors which is exactly as you describe here was all about and worked, They where great if used for custers and in fact I;m sure lead to the use of fuse(thermalight ) for High power .

I still have several packages of Sure-Shot ignitors. However, since they are now about three decades old, they only smolder when fired. The wick has gone bad even though they were stored in an ammo box.
Thermalite has long been the choice for high power motors, whether as the pyrogen or sheathed. Alas, it is difficult to purchase and requires all sorts of hoops to be jumped through. More trouble than worth. I use a magnalite kit to make ignitors (or enhance them) and I really like the Quickburst ignitors. Some folks talk about the expense, but when you consider messing with making igniters, your time, and reliability, they are cost effective.

And the QuickBurst Hot Shots are superb for BP clusters...