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SEL
03-26-2005, 12:17 AM
Does anyone out there have plans for the CMR Pirate 2 stage payloader?

Sean

SEL
04-20-2005, 10:21 PM
Does anyone out there have plans for the CMR Pirate 2 stage payloader?

Sean

Guess not :-(

SEL
03-28-2020, 12:45 PM
Does anyone out there have plans for the CMR Pirate 2 stage payloader?

Sean

Just thought I’d bump this on the off chance...

Rcktflyer
05-05-2020, 01:41 PM
I worked for Howard for several years, it wouldn't be hard for me to make up some plans for you, however the payload section was RB77 and the Nose cone and shoulder were made from vacuum formed NC77's, which are impossible to get now. The fins where made from 1/64" plywood and I may have the plan from for them in may range box.

SEL
05-05-2020, 02:25 PM
I worked for Howard for several years, it wouldn't be hard for me to make up some plans for you, however the payload section was RB77 and the Nose cone and shoulder were made from vacuum formed NC77's, which are impossible to get now. The fins where made from 1/64" plywood and I may have the plan from for them in may range box.


Hi Rktflyer,


Yeah, I have the RB77 and I can wing it with a Centuri ST5, so just the tube lengths and fin patterns would help. I may have the NC's tucked away somewhere. Did the transition come pre-cut, or did the builder have to cut it down?
My last order to CMR included the Pirate and an extra payload section, along w/a few other parts, but came back with a "Sorry, we are unable to fulfill your order at this time" note. That was the the end of CMR...


Thanks for what ever you can provide.


Must have been interesting working for Howard; were you there when he shut down?


Sean

MarkB.
05-05-2020, 02:46 PM
Dude!

Got to be the all-time winner for necro-post. 15 years. Most impressive.

SEL
05-05-2020, 03:17 PM
Dude!

Got to be the all-time winner for necro-post. 15 years. Most impressive.


I know, right? I was a wee laddie of not quite 50 years when I posted this request. Lucky I'm still upright...

ghrocketman
05-05-2020, 03:46 PM
15 years has to be a record for ressurrection of a dead topic.

BEC
05-05-2020, 05:34 PM
...especially when resuscitated by the original poster and not someone else turning up the thread in a search...

snaquin
05-05-2020, 05:36 PM
I know, right? I was a wee laddie of not quite 50 years when I posted this request. Lucky I'm still upright...

Wow, I joined as a new member June 2005 ... that is an oldie!

SEL
05-05-2020, 07:02 PM
Wow, I joined as a new member June 2005 ... that is an oldie!


Welcome Back Steve! (Got the ARG file - thanks!)



Same here. I could have sworn that I joined sooner than 2005, but apparently not.

zog139
05-05-2020, 07:27 PM
I am fairly certain I have some of the RB77 nose cones as well.

snaquin
05-06-2020, 02:02 PM
Welcome Back Steve! (Got the ARG file - thanks!)



Same here. I could have sworn that I joined sooner than 2005, but apparently not.

Thanks, glad you got the file.
Yeah, good to be back here and on the right side of the dirt!
;)

Ez2cDave
05-08-2020, 02:16 PM
Unfortunaely, I don't have data for the CMR Pirate . . .

http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/cmr87/87cmr13.jpg

Dave F.

SEL
05-08-2020, 03:39 PM
Looks like there were at least 2 versions of this kit. The first is from the 1980 catalogue, the 2nd is from 1987.

Ez2cDave
05-08-2020, 03:55 PM
Looks like their were at least 2 versions of this kit. The first is from the 1980 catalogue, the 2nd is from 1987.

Good Catch !

The difference appears to be only the payload section . . .

This was necessary when the NAR switched over from the "Lead Slug" Payload Weight to the "Sand-Filled Paper Tube" Payload Weight.

Dave F.

SEL
05-08-2020, 04:00 PM
Good Catch !

The difference appears to be only the payload section . . .

This was necessary when the NAR switched over from the "Lead Slug" Payload Weight to the "Sand-Filled Paper Tube" Payload Weight.

Dave F.

The later catalogues list the payload capsule available in 2 sizes: one for the NAR payload and one for FAI payloads.

BEC
05-08-2020, 05:54 PM
Interesting that the hot setup for B Payload Altitude even back then was a two stager A10-0T to A3-4T. That's still generally the best combination.

I'd be worried about the booster streamlining in, resulting in a DQ (if the RSO sees it do so). It happened to me at NARAM-61 last summer (*sigh*)

I suppose if this model (Pirate) were still available there would need to be a third version since the sand-in-a-tube payload was recently revised so that it could fit in BT-20 instead of it having to BE BT-20.

DWolman
05-09-2020, 10:44 AM
Sean - I believe I must have had a Pirate at one point, I did come up with the pieces for it - pics are below.

I'll keep an eye out for the instructions or any other pieces as well -

Ez2cDave
05-09-2020, 11:17 AM
I'd be worried about the booster streamlining in, resulting in a DQ (if the RSO sees it do so). It happened to me at NARAM-61 last summer (*sigh*)

Here's a TIP . . .

Paint your Booster a Light Blue ( Very difficult to see coming down ) . . . Build extra's, in case you can't find it. later .

Also, hollering "WOW ( or a suitable "expletive" ), look at that !" and pointing wildly at the sky tends to "distract" the RSO - LOL !

Dave F.

tbzep
05-11-2020, 09:40 AM
Here's a TIP . . .

Paint your Booster a Light Blue ( Very difficult to see coming down ) . . . Build extra's, in case you can't find it. later .

Also, hollering "WOW ( or a suitable "expletive" ), look at that !" and pointing wildly at the sky tends to "distract" the RSO - LOL !

Dave F.
:chuckle: :D

BEC
05-11-2020, 11:09 AM
I had to be amused at that, too.

I will say that to his credit the RSO who DQ'd that flight has some suggestions to help my second flight not get DQ'd while using the same model design. (He happened to be the CD for NARAM-61) It also helped that he wasn't the RSO for my second flight in that event that day.... :eek:

SEL
05-26-2020, 10:52 PM
So: I've acquired the parts I didn't have (turns out, all I had were the tubes) for this build. Thanks to Dan W. for the transition and others who offered to help. While I'm waiting for the parts to arrive, I twiddled around in Open Rocket to try and figure out tube lengths, fin patterns etc. (Still looking for Instructions and fin tracings if anyone has them). This is what I came up with below. I'll tweak it as needed when I have all the parts. (I also ordered a digital Scale to use for this build)

Ez2cDave
05-26-2020, 11:11 PM
So: I've acquired the parts I didn't have (turns out, all I had were the tubes) for this build. Thanks to Dan W. for the transition and others who offered to help. While I'm waiting for the parts to arrive, I twiddled around in Open Rocket to try and figure out tube lengths, fin patterns etc. (Still looking for Instructions and fin tracings if anyone has them). This is what I came up with below. I'll tweek it as needed when I have all the parts.

Looking Good !

Green Dragon
10-07-2020, 01:04 PM
the big question is - did you ever find the plans ?

I have a builtup one I could measure / trace if need be.

( and good to see you still here n kicking Sean, I'm trying to make up for lost time in the drk zone )

AL

SEL
10-07-2020, 01:24 PM
the big question is - did you ever find the plans ?

I have a builtup one I could measure / trace if need be.

( and good to see you still here n kicking Sean, I'm trying to make up for lost time in the drk zone )

AL

Hey Al - good to see you back as well!!

No, still don’t have the plans. If you could measure the
Tubes and trace the fins, that would be great!!

Thanks,

Sean

shuyge
10-08-2020, 01:06 PM
All this talk about the Pirate got me thinking that I actually own one of these kits.

Yep. I found it.

It looks to me like this is yet another version based on the fact that my kit has elliptical fins...

Green Dragon
10-08-2020, 04:42 PM
My builtup one has the eliptical fins as well, and I believe mine are 1/64 ply, have to check

Thought I had a photo - but only one on ths computer is below, not much to be seen, the Sandpiper is there behing the galactic taxi, blue booster,red tube,white unpainted cone.

( and I bet SEL can name a few of these birds in the picture ;) )

AL

shuyge
10-08-2020, 04:48 PM
Ooh. I like this game..

Goblin
Vigilante
Laser-X
Maxi-Icarus
Skybolt
Sizzler
Solar Sailor
Hornet
Photon Disrupter
Galactic taxi
3 sets of fins that look like a farside..
Nike Smoke
Rattler 7

snaquin
10-08-2020, 05:06 PM
the big question is - did you ever find the plans ?

I have a builtup one I could measure / trace if need be.

( and good to see you still here n kicking Sean, I'm trying to make up for lost time in the drk zone )

ALHey Al, I hope you are doing well buddy :)
I still have some AAA stuff that you emailed to me probably a decade ago :eek:

SEL
10-17-2020, 09:38 PM
All this talk about the Pirate got me thinking that I actually own one of these kits.

Yep. I found it.

It looks to me like this is yet another version based on the fact that my kit has elliptical fins...

Hey Stan,
Do you remember when you bought this version of the Pirate?
Was it directly from CMR? Just trying to figure out a timeline for
When they made the switch.

On a side note: at some point CMR made a switch in the other direction
with the ‘Robin’ egglofter. They switched out the classic eliptical fins for a trapezoid fin shape (a bad move, in my opinion) and they look TINY! I’ll post a few comparative photos tomorrow. As with the ‘Pirate’, I’m not sure when the change was made, or why.

Sean

shuyge
10-17-2020, 10:40 PM
Hey Stan,
Do you remember when you bought this version of the Pirate?
Was it directly from CMR? Just trying to figure out a timeline for
When they made the switch.

On a side note: at some point CMR made a switch in the other direction
with the ‘Robin’ egglofter. They switched out the classic eliptical fins for a trapezoid fin shape (a bad move, in my opinion) and they look TINY! I’ll post a few comparative photos tomorrow. As with the ‘Pirate’, I’m not sure when the change was made, or why.

Sean

Sean,

Sadly, I did not buy anything directly from CMR. In the mid to latter 90's, I purchased some lots of Roto-Rocket, FSI, and CMR stuff. I ended up with a really nice selection of CMR stuff, but I have no idea when it was originally purchased. I think that there's a Robin in that box too. Do you want any information from that one?

Stan

SEL
10-17-2020, 11:53 PM
Sean,

Sadly, I did not buy anything directly from CMR. In the mid to latter 90's, I purchased some lots of Roto-Rocket, FSI, and CMR stuff. I ended up with a really nice selection of CMR stuff, but I have no idea when it was originally purchased. I think that there's a Robin in that box too. Do you want any information from that one?

Stan


Does your Robin have the elliptical fins or trapezoid? If you can get tracings of whichever ones you have, I'll compare them to what I have. What other CMR kits do you have?


Sean

SEL
10-18-2020, 07:08 PM
So: I've acquired the parts I didn't have (turns out, all I had were the tubes) for this build. Thanks to Dan W. for the transition and others who offered to help. While I'm waiting for the parts to arrive, I twiddled around in Open Rocket to try and figure out tube lengths, fin patterns etc. (Still looking for Instructions and fin tracings if anyone has them). This is what I came up with below. I'll tweak it as needed when I have all the parts. (I also ordered a digital Scale to use for this build)


Playing around in Open Rocket again with the Pirate. The tube lengths are guesstimates, the transition and nose cone measurements are from what I have on hand, and the fin dimensions are the best I could come up with from the catalogue drawings. Depending on the time of day and whatever mood I happen to be in at the time, the fins sometimes look like they have a bit of a rearward sweep, so I've twiddled them out with both a 90 degree trailing edge and a something-or-other degree sweep - both sets look like they may be a little long in the span. I'll cut some out later this evening and do a dry fit, see how they look. Both files are below, comments are welcome

shuyge
10-23-2020, 11:16 PM
Does your Robin have the elliptical fins or trapezoid? If you can get tracings of whichever ones you have, I'll compare them to what I have. What other CMR kits do you have?

Sean

Sean,

Sorry about the delay. It's been a week and I had to dig for my CMR box.

The fins on my Robin are elliptical. I should be able to do a scan through the bag whenever I go back to my office. No telling when that will be though.

As for what I have, here is all of it with the exception of a Sting Ray that has some mold that I need to try to salvage..

SEL
10-24-2020, 01:23 AM
Sean,

Sorry about the delay. It's been a week and I had to dig for my CMR box.

The fins on my Robin are elliptical. I should be able to do a scan through the bag whenever I go back to my office. No telling when that will be though.

As for what I have, here is all of it with the exception of a Sting Ray that has some mold that I need to try to salvage..


Nice collection Stan - I'll post photo's of mine tomorrow. Funny that you mention the 'Stingray', I'm working on my (mold-free) kit now.

SEL
10-24-2020, 06:36 PM
Sean,

Sorry about the delay. It's been a week and I had to dig for my CMR box.

The fins on my Robin are elliptical. I should be able to do a scan through the bag whenever I go back to my office. No telling when that will be though.

As for what I have, here is all of it with the exception of a Sting Ray that has some mold that I need to try to salvage..


Ok, Below is my collection of CMR kits; some bought direct from CMR, a couple from Commonwealth Displays ( I felt like I was subsidizing them back in the mid-late 80's ), a couple from eBay and 1 or 2 from YORF members. The only one's that I have and not shown are the 'Stingray', 'Manta' and a partial 'Orbitron'. The built-ups have not been flown yet.

Edit: The ‘Robin’ with the red hang tag is the early version w/elliptical fins and foam lined egg capsule. The other two have trapezoid fins and separate foam inserts.


Edit 2: CMR Built-ups from left to right: Humpty-Dumpty, Robin, Rapier, Double Eggle.

shuyge
10-25-2020, 10:14 PM
Sean,

Here is the picture of the ELO fins to get a relative size for them..

Stan

SEL
10-26-2020, 12:03 AM
Sean,

Here is the picture of the ELO fins to get a relative size for them..

Stan


Thanks Stan.

Green Dragon
10-28-2020, 08:03 AM
Both - nice collections.

Built many CMR kits back in my contest days , even set a US record with a mostly stock ELO on an Aerotech D7, forget the altitude but was the B division D Eggloft altitude record for some time.

Thanks for the ELO fin scan.... if you build, or can scan in the bag, would love info on the HYper, we had a bunch of those, and I still have two I thought were scratchbuilt, that might indeed,be Hyper kits.

See photo - unpainted, but painted ( reused ) fins.

These ( and the Pirate, sorry Sean ) are in a box of builtups still MIA, once I find em will post more info.and pics.

Good stuff CMR, only ones I still have are the Pirate, paratrooper ?, and a Manta... do have a capsule someplace, so maybe an ELO clone on the radar..... sigh, this jumping back in thing is getting out of hand :)

AL

mojo1986
10-28-2020, 03:46 PM
I have a CMR kit named 'Resling'. On the instructions it states that it was "Designed especially for Pearl River Middle School".

mojo1986
10-29-2020, 10:49 AM
Have any of you CMR experts heard of the Resling? I noted that it didn't appear in the collections that you showed.

DWolman
10-29-2020, 11:04 AM
I also have one of the Riesling kits - will try to share a pic later tonight.

shuyge
10-29-2020, 11:23 AM
I wouldn't consider myself an expert. I had never heard of that kit before. I just happened to be at the right place / right time to pick up my collection. It was one of those instant collection type of deals. I went from zero CMR kits to the collection that I showed.

mojo1986
10-29-2020, 11:30 AM
Photos front and back

Ltvscout
10-29-2020, 11:57 AM
Photos front and back
Joe,

If the bag is open could you scan the plans and a fin with ruler for us?

pterodactyl
10-29-2020, 12:06 PM
Dude!

Got to be the all-time winner for necro-post. 15 years. Most impressive.

Not sure if you coined "necro-post", but its brilliant!

mojo1986
10-29-2020, 03:17 PM
Joe,

If the bag is open could you scan the plans and a fin with ruler for us?


Scott, I will have to do that at Staples as I no longer have a scanner. I'll put it on my to-do list.


Joe